Why people think "The Thing" is impossible to be added because of SWFs.
First of all, I'll preface this by stating that if The Thing was added, yes they would need something else in addition to disguising as survivors as that would not be enough on its own. Anytime this discussion comes up, people immediately say that it would never fool SWFs. realistically though, it would just be a better version of Undetectable.
The only reason to disguise yourself as a survivor would be to get close enough to a survivor so you can hit them. I see people saying things like "teabag if it's really you", as if the killer is going to sit near them and pretend to work on gens or something stupid. No, as soon as they are in range they will just be shapeshifting back to hit you.
Say a survivor is working on a gen and then Dwight runs around the corner. By the time the survivor finishes asking their SWF to "teabag to confirm" or similar, Dwight has already shapeshifted and gotten their free hit. If the SWF says to split up and never go near each other, that helps to stop healing and you can just use your Undetectable to get close enough to hit anyway, survivors can't see through walls after all.
This is pretty much just a better version of Undetectable with the bonus that a survivor might not immediately run for at least 0.5 - 1 second after spotting you. If Ghostface's Night Shroud is decent enough to get a first hit, then shapeshifting would pretty much always just be a better Night Shroud.
Again, If the Thing was added this would most likely be just one part of their whole kit since undetectable has never been the sole power of any killer. If they had a chase tool to secure a down after that free hit, that would be a good power. If they had game delay of some sort, like Pig (disguising would also be a better version of Pig crouching) that would be an okay power.
If you disagree, that's perfectly fine. I feel like people are just saying "never beats SWF" because that's what they hear all the time, without actually explaining why SWF never gets beaten by this hypothetical killer. Undetectable already exists, so as long as the Thing had additional parts to their kit besides disguising then I think they would be just fine to add to the roster.
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You could also give the killer the ability to crouch while disguised or even a permanent notification that tells you what the original survivor he is disguised at is doing right now, like walking, running, crouching or repairing and so on, without telling the killer where they are doing that.
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Still the argument of won't fool SWFs is still valid because you wouldn't be able to get near any member of a swf because of.....
Billy- Hey Bob Did you get your Gen done....
Bob- No I'm still working on it.
Billy- Oh that's not you it's the Killer *Runs off before fake Bob gets close"
Bob- Everyone we have a Thing call out your locations at regular intervals.
In a short amount of time the killer would lose any sort of surprise attack.
Also GF Shroud isn't that good either even without SpineChill any decent survivor will constantly be looking at their surroundings for the Killer but specifically for GF or Michel
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I've been hoping for a while that we get a shapeshifter like The Thing as a killer. I would just eat Meg, take her place and escape through the exit gate.
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I think a Shapeshifting killer that disguises as a survivor in the trial could work so long as that's a secondary part of their power rather than the sole focus of their power much like you said. If you base their entire strength around it then it gets considerably weaker the moment people realise you're going against that killer (even in solo queue) and when you're against a team in comms.
Effectively, if you do it that way it just becomes another form of toggleable stealth with a twist on it similar to Pig/GhostFace.
I certainly think it could be something BHVR could pull off and I think it would actually be quite fun to go against and play even if playing that killer isn't particularly strong - I can already imagine the types of videos going against it.
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Because people are dead stuck on the idea that "The Thing" is a shape shifter monster. It, in fact, is not. It is a monster that infects people and turns them into other instances of the thing which later disguise themselves as the organism whose cells they have substituted.
If we consider "The Things" by Peter Watts at least semi canon, it gives us a slight insight into how The Thing operates. It infects the living creature and overtakes its cells in a manner of a virus, changing them into the ones of The Thing - a decentralized consciousness that grows stronger the more cells it has. We also know that unique nature of humans or other beings on earth is that unlike other lifeforms in the Universe, according to The Thing, they are not decentralized and instead are centralized, having heterogenic kind of anatomy with different organs serving different purpose and the brain operating the rest of the body like a meat puppet. Because of that, when The Thing burrowed inside humans, it didn't have to imitate them, their bodies moved on their own as long as the The Thing didn't take over the brain. Once it did, however, it became able to nearly perfectly copy them.
So, with that in mind, here's how I would make The Thing's power work:
To put it short:
Whenever The Thing attacks a survivor, it can choose to infect them with its attack or not. Survivors don't know whether the infection has occured and their only way of knowing who might be the next Thing is to track people that got hit & cleared.
Whenever there's an already infected survivor in the trial and a new one is infected, the previously infected survivor gets free from the infection.
Once the infection in the survivor develops enough, The Thing gets a small insight into their surroundings allowing it to known whether there are survivors nearby the infected survivor to then activate its ability and assimilate the survivor, taking full control over them and changing their physical form to become lethal.
Assimilated survivor still possesses an ability to regain control and has to struggle with The Thing over control with his body and once they succeed, they break free from the infection. After that, the infection in the survivor restarts its timer and pauses it for 120 seconds, then the process of becoming fully infected starts again.
Assimilated survivor gets an access to 2 separate abilities - Tentacle grip that allows to start vaulting/breaking animation from greater distance and Bladed appendage that is a lethal attack working similar like Nemesis' whip and Billy's saw.
Survivors have a second way to keep track of who is who. They can find tools to take a blood sample and expose it to fire, revealing whether the checked survivor is infected or not. If the checked survivor is in fact The Thing, they reveal themselves and attack nearby survivors, dealing damage to them. The Thing may choose to take control of the revealed survivor, starting Assimilation or it may ignore it, which means that within 10 seconds the Assimilation ends prematurely.
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If I'm in SWF and know what killer I'm against, I'd constantly ping everyone's status. Disguise won't work. Otherwise killer is another Dredge-like piece of meat and claws.
What I was thinking is to make disguise as optional and meme ability, but main thing of Thing is to infect survivors (pretty much like plague). After infection take place, infected survivor don't know about that, but killer could see from infected survivor POV (like Pinhead with chains) and in the right moment activate rapid mutation to turn this survivor into walking intestines and attack+infect another surivor. The mutated survivor is reassembled by Entity in another part of map and loses hook state.
Plus basic way to turn into meat pile with tentacles and teeth and chase survivors old-fashioned way.
Also infected survivor don't know that he is infected, so while doing gens he regress it (but it's shown to him that progress is going), drop pallets (but again without host knowing).
Maybe it better be some deterioration timer, when survivor is fully assimilated, on killer command that surivivor is killed, and you take his place or either mimicking or suddenly transform and attack next survivor.
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Damn man, nice job. That's pretty damn cool and well thought out.
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Being aware that a stealth killer exists and swfs keeping an eye out doesn’t make Undetectability useless, it’s still a solid effect even against a hypothetical 4-person swf (and keep in mind only about 5% of matches are full swf squads, the great majority of matches include 1-3 solo survivors who aren’t in the loop). Even against groups that contain a swf of some kind Undetectability does significantly shorten the distance before the survivor reacts to your presence.
I do agree that semi-permanent Stealth shouldn’t be the mimic killer’s only ability, they would need something else to augment it. For example Ghost Face has instant downs and a bit of tracking, Pig has her traps and Ambush, Wraith has faster movement speed and near actual invisibility, and Scratch Mirror Meyers has his unlimited auras. There’s no killer whose sole ability is Undetectability. So a killer who can look like a survivor would likewise need some additional part of their kit to round them out.
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thanks, hope devs take it when The Thing gets into the game, I wouldn't mind.
It probably needs balancing and tweaking, but the overall idea is infecting survivors without them knowing so they all have to guess who is who and be able to overtake survivor's body to attack others, so they would be putting themselves in danger every time they group up
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If Billy is waiting for Bob to reply before making a decision to run, that is already 2-3 seconds that Billy is not moving and the Killer can close distance. Plus, just because the killer looks like a survivor, doesn't mean they can't be smart about approaching gens.
If Billy is working on a gen in a jungle gym (where he has no LOS outside of said jungle gym) and the disguised killer turns the corner, Billy will not have time to ask Bob what his status is. The killer is already in range for a free hit.
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I'm that scenario the fake would get that hit or grab but still the issue falls on after that all the other members would now make sure to call out their locations.
I want a killer like this but as long as Coms are a issue that killer would only have a one time use. More and more solos would team up into SWFs just to counter it sadly.
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Yes, if the survivor doesn't know that sounds like a lot of fun. But what is to stop survivors from doing like Discordance and splitting up throughout the match?
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I like this idea, though I imagined a bit differently. In order to preserve its identity secret for a little while he should start the match disguised as billy, legion, freddy or Myers and have their passive abilities but not their active ones. Disguise lasts for 60 seconds or until you start infection on a survivor.
After hitting a survivor you can press A (dunno keyboard equivalent) at any point to start the infection on the last survivor you hit (so the survivors can never be entirely sure whose it). Once infection starts it will progress naturally, progression slows by 50% when in chase or in dying state and stops when on a hook. It also speeds up by 50% when repairing, healing, being healed or blessing and gains big boost when receiving a hit.
Once infection reaches 50% you can see the aura of the infected survivor. Once it reaches 100% you can see the aura of other survivors in a 12 meter radius of the infected.
When infections reaches 100% you can further interact with your prey:
Hijack body: the thing teleports to the infected and bursts out of its body (1 sec animation) leaving him in deep wound and also incapacitated and hindered for 15 seconds, the infected cannot be put into the dying state by the thing for 15 seconds and looses the infected status. They also gain haemorrhage and mangled until fully healed
Sleeper cell: The infection takes control of the body of the survivor (1 sec animation) causing it to lash out against other survivors nearby, chase and attack them autonomously. The thing can continue to operate normally, independently of the spawn.
This should work similarly to nemesis zombies, however faster and deadlier, able to outrun a survivor and perform basic actions (kinda like bot trapper) and last for 30 seconds. The survivor however can struggle for control of its body and reduce the time by a maximum of 10 seconds (skill checks?)
After regaining control the survivor is left in the deep wound effect, mangled and haemorrhaged, but cannot be downed by the thing for 15 seconds and looses its infection.
The thing should be a 4.6 killer and gain a celerity effect and reduced terror radius as long as no infection is ongoing, but when it starts infection on a survivor he becomes an m1 killer with no power.
This should make its gameplay interesting and open to choices and versatility, do I delay infection to keep the advantages and get multiple hits fast or maybe even a down? Do I use my 100% power or maybe keep the infected alone for a while and enjoy the information they give me? Should I teleport right away and hijack or maybe I could approach with the help of some perk or add-on that grants undetectable or oblivious and attack in tandem with the spawn to wreak some havoc?
Should the survivors continue to cooperate, heal and save as usual or stay apart, risking the potential lack of healing support or an unhooking going awry?
I dunno, just my idea
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Those are some pretty good ideas in this thread. On another note, the whole 'but SWF' argument falls apart to me because it assumes that more than a small portion of the Killers are even viable against a high MMR SWF. Other than Artist, who was the most recent Killer put out that could contest high MMR SWFs? Spirit?
The Thing would be super fun to play as. That sounds like a pretty important factor.
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What's the practicality here? You can play nearly any stealth killer and get the same result. You would just tun into another M1 killer after that hit.
Besides, the counter is not verify but isolation. Once they know the killer is The Thing they will stay away from eachother and do separate gens. Anytime you approach will be viewed as the killer coming instead of a teammate.
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Because they would still need to group up for stuff like healing or unhooking. Not to mention they still would occasionally group up.
I suppose it would work like survivors nearby fully infected survivor are revealed with killer instinct so you will know when somebody is within lethal range of the infected survivor so you can start assimilation.
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This might work too, I don't have a concrete idea of how exactly would The Thing's power operate.
The general concept is just that you infect one survivor without them knowing by choosing whether your attack is infectious or not and then turning infected survivor into a weapon against other survivors.
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I love that so much!
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This is such a cool and unique idea. I would love to see this considered for DBD. I actually saw a video of a hacker who had used Feng to fool survivors and it did genuinely scare the person streaming. Other than the walking looking obviously off, the model was Feng's. Every corner there she was. Or suddenly she would be right next to the survivor. The premise is definitely there. Even though that was a hack, it was still cool and added a different form of horror of who's really real and who isn't?
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I think if the thing was added they would have to make its mimic ability just flavor. You cant base the power off of it. From a lore perspective it doesnt make any sense for it to be transforming into the survivors anyway. They should make it more of the transformed thing and make a creature killer. The various things through the movies can be skins since they function similarly.
my major issue with the thing joining is that its just too lethal to humor a full trial. Contact is death. So how do you remedy that?
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I would love at this point, to have the physical form of the survivor for added deception fun. I think of the films and the times where they were revealed, it can't really give chase, you have to corner them to mori whilst in mutated form. Hit and run doesn't work really anymore, they'd just put CoH.
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