Survivor Mentality
Trying to understand something here...
So the game is grindy AF, more so for Survivors than killer, that's much is easy to figure out.
So my problem is understanding why do Survivors gen rush if that means they're getting less BP!?
Why are you gen rushing and bringing BPS or Cakes!? You want the measely 20 to 25k BP in an extra BP scenario!?
You're still missing DOUBLE BP cause you're not doing anything else...You're wasting even more BP than normally.
Why bring Toolboxes and gen rush when you have extra bp offerings!?
Comments
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Not everyone plays to "win" or for points. Some people actually play video games because they are fun. Not everyone is riding youtube/twitch streamers tips and trying to be all meta, either.
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In terms of blood points... Gen rush is similar to killers slugging. Either way... The faster the match ends - less bp you get.
So there is 0 points bringing the cake.
Survivors gen-rushing is not actually a thing that you can argue about.=) It's their first goal, second goal is to escape through gates.
When they feel threatened, they will gen-rush. When they want go up mmr, they will gen-rush. even when they want blood points, they will gen-rush and escape (+5k).
Gen-rush is not a crime. It's healthy for win, it's a valuable tactic for getting escapes.
Still you have to have at least 1 decent guy, who can loop the killer tho.
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Survivors have to play expecting the worst-case scenario: that the killer can stomp them. Gen rush is how you escape, and escape is what rewards that big 5k chunk of BP.
It's just like killers who go hardcore and stomp survivors at 5 gens left. They're afraid to pull back because the moment you do 3 gens pop and you find yourself losing. Snowballing is a big part of this game. It's worse for survivors though who can find themselves eliminated in a heartbeat having earned nothing.
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Guilty. Went easy on a 3 stack that got off to a rough start because of their solo - I regretted that so much. I don't believe in brakes anymore.
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Most survivors are lucky to get 15k a game depending on how the killer plays lol. I mean, Survivors have 2 objectives. Gens and totems. And most survivors only cleanse totems when they know there's a hex because that's most efficient.
I feel like ppl throw around the term gen rush as if survivors have anything else to do.
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An interesting thing to note that I don't see discussed very much: Survivor meta perks are much more accessible.
Now, the newest update will significantly change this, but up until this point you could get a completely meta loadout for your survivor with zero cost to you, neither iri shards nor auric cells.
Bill has unbreakable and borrowed time, dwight has prove thyself (bond and leader to a lesser extent), meg with sprint burst and adrenaline, david with dead hard, jake with iron will. You can have a competitively viable build without needing to do the iri grind for multiple characters (or spending money) and actually have massive variance between builds with some interesting picks all around. Kindred is available for all, which is a great perk all around, as is deja vu and a few others.
Killers get trapper who has agitation at best, wraith which has the extremely niche pick of shadowborn, huntress which has little to offer in the way of perks, billy who has the best free perk for killers (again, until the big perk shakeup) with tinkerer, and nurse having some decent all around picks with thana and nurses calling.
The killer time investment is massive to get the meta perks, either having to wait until they pop up in a shrine or being outright required to spend money for a good chunk of them. BBQ is a frequent popup in shrines but otherwise requires a licensed killer. Likewise with deadlock.
Even beyond the licensed killer lock-ins the lions share of "good" killer perks are locked behind killers you do not get for free, survivors cannot say the same. Survivors are pretty much just lacking DS (again reiterating I mean in the current meta and up until now) as far as the most popular perks go.
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Yeah, they hammer out gens saying "lol it's our only objective" than, in the same breath, complain about how boring gens are.
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Finish gens = open exit gates = tbag the killer.. That's the real main objective to survivors.
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Chases are the only fun thing but they don't like being chased the whole time lol
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A fun match for a survivor is well-rounded. It includes working on the objective, making saves and healing, and getting chased. Most survivors don't find it fun to only do one of those things all match. It also feels stressful to be non-stop chased; if there's not at least a little downtime between chases, then it feels hopeless and a lot of survivors would rather just move on to a new match. Hopeless is demoralizing, not fun.
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As an objective chasing and killing survivours is way more interactive and probably for the majority of the players more entertaining than holding m1 on a generator so whats the issue? Its the rest of survivour gameplay outside of doing generators ( getting chased, going for saves, for some people hiding, fun builds and techs) that makes the role entertaining.
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My reason to ''rush'' gens is because you never know how aggressive the killer is gonna be, you never know if he is the type of killer (like a nurse) who is gonna slug the entire team in seconds (basically depriving you of all bloodpoints) or not. Usually when I play with my team we secure the objective (all gens, and if the match was not long enough) we stay in the match just looping the killer/opening chests/doing totems and stuff like that to secure more blood points.
Basically you always secure your escape first to make sure you all gonna get 5k+ for surviving and then you farm for BP, if you do it the other way around and start slow you can get stomped by the killer, get all killed and earn even less points than the ones you would have earned if you escaped.
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5K for survival. Unless the survivors know the Killer is just going to farm with them why risk the 5K reward for 1K or 2K from chase?
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I agree, a good match for me as survivor is do 2 Gen, make 2 unhook, 2 heal, 2 chase. Then escape or die doesnt matter (some people feel entitled to escape though)
Keep holding M1 on Gen then escape doesnt fun, keep being chased off hook without any 2nd chance doesnt fun. 2 survivors die at 3 Gen and cause hopeless situation doesnt fun.
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^this.
I only play on weekends, and I play Solo Q. My last 3 matches were absolute unabashed facecampers. Just had a Demo on Raccoon City stand there face to face with the hooked survivor (at 4 gens). It's absurd.
So yes. We load into a match and get gens done as fast as possible because we all know camping is nearly inevitable.
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Same reason why killers slug and camp at 5 gens.
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Wait wait wait.
HOL UP
The game is NOT more grindy for Survivors than Killers. Not even close. Survivors just need to make their characters get the specific meta perks they need and they are DONE. Killers have different optimal perks based on the Killer, whereas all Survivors play functionally the same. Not to mention many Killers are add-on reliant and need to farm bloodwebs for those add ons. Survivors can literally get loot in chests and games, and even KEEP them if they win!
How EXACTLY is Survivor more grindy?
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So let me get this straight. Survivors gen rush because they want the 5k from escape!? Wich turns into 10k with a Cake or BPS. What if told you you can get the same 5k, or whatever multiplicative, IF YOU JUST PLAY THE GAME!
"OH we never know if the killer is gonna slug at 5 gens". If you don't openly show you're just gonna gen rush then maybe the killer won't slug you at 5 gens!?
Like what the hell you expect a killer to do when he sees 2 toolboxes for example? You think he will just let you gen rush for EZ escape!?
So you can gen rush because killer might be an ######### but killer can't counter your gen rush!?
Such thinking much entitlement!
" First we secure escape then we farm BP" Oh so the killer only exists for you after you've made sure you can win easily!? After all gens are done it's easy to just gang up on any killer...
Mob mentality...i got you.
You'll get more points doing a bit of everything else than you will just gen rushing and escaping. Getting 15k points just to SURVIVE is dumb.
You're tading both Points and FUN just to complete the objective. And you trade DOUBLE the points whenever there's extra BP...
You guys rather get more 15k matches than you want fun, than you want points. You clearly don't enjoy the game, you just want in and out without doing anything worth it...
This is why i'll never find survivor a
tractive to play, especially as a SOLOQ player. People will let you die just for them to get their measely 5k points. Then they'll complain for you dying and not helping them gen rush harder.
They're the kind of people to drop every pallet and shift W to the next one everytime so that nobody else can get a decent chase. they're the kind of people to not rescue someone because the killer MIGHT be doing A, B or C...
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So you're playing on accasions, you're most likely low MMR and you're complaining about lack of skill from killers... Maybe find time to play a bit more and escape the low MMR hell.
So you're gen rushing based on the assumption you're gonna get camped but then you do get camped because you're gne rushing...I guess it's easy to figure out why you're getting camped.
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Well, to be fair, BBQ is amazing and their equivalent... I do not even know the name of it.
Albeit, after the patch where they objectively increase the grind (via removing the BP perk from BBQ), I feel they will be equal.
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Yep, sometimes flipping from dominating to losing can happen in an heartbeat.
The survivors can get several downs with a mistake, and a few gens can suddenly pop.
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Not even close to equal.
After the patch Survivors will always be on top of all their perks, but Killer grind to get add-ons have had their costs actually increased by this new method.
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Equivalent for addons is items, bringing an OP medkit is the same as bringing OP addons. But I do think that survivors without items are stronger with killers without addons.
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It is not "equivalent" at all. Killer add ons completely change the way the kit can be played. A Survivor with an item either unlocks a hatch, makes a killer face a wall to pick up, gets a limited heal without having to use a perk, or shaves a few seconds off a gen.
This is nothing compared to Tombstones, Alchemist Ring, etc.
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If you're playing with a coordinated swf decked out with toolboxes + BNP, then sure, I'd say they're aiming to gen-rush. As a solo survivor though, I have no idea what my team is doing or how efficient the killer is. I'll hop on a gen and maybe mine will pop along with 2 others, or maybe only mine will pop cos the killer has already downed my team, or maybe the killer will interrupt me and I won't get to pop my gen at all. Getting a gen out of the way though helps me potentially gain a pip, whether i survive the match or not. I'm not getting my gen done to end the game early, I'm just trying to pip and get my bp. Then maybe I'll track down some totems or open some chests etc. But a bunch of gens popping doesn't necessarily mean the team wants to end the game asap.
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Medkits are the biggest impact items, and they can be absolutely devastating. Strong toolboxes on multiple survivors too. It's worst when multiple survivors bring them, that's when you really feel their power.
But keys, maps and flashlights generally have zero value in most games.
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Yeah, but you can duplicate a medkit with a perk. No perk in the game can replace my Depleted Ink Ribbon.
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So let me get this straight. Killers slug ang go hard tunnel because they want the 6k from the game!? Wich turns into 12k with a Cake or BBQ. What if told you you can get the same 6k, or whatever multiplicative, IF YOU JUST PLAY THE GAME!
"OH we never know if the survs are gonna pop up 5 gens in two minures". If you don't openly show you're just gonna slug the whole team or tunnel and camp then maybe the survs won't genrush you!?
Like what the hell you expect a survs to do when they see you are facecamping for example? You think they will just let you kill them on 5 gens for EZ game!?
So you can tunnel and camp because survs might be an ######### but survs can't counter your tunnel/slugging/camping by gen rush!?
Such thinking much entitlement!
" First we secure a kill to make the game 3v1 then we farm BP" Oh so other survs only exist for you after you've made sure you can win easily!? After 1 kill at 4 gens is done it's easy to just gang up on survs...
Mob mentality...i got you.
You'll get more points doing a bit of everything else than you will just slugging or tunnel one surv for the whole game. Getting 15k points just to WIN is dumb.
You're tading both Points and FUN just to complete the objective. And you trade DOUBLE the points whenever there's extra BP...
You guys rather get more 15k matches than you want fun, than you want points. You clearly don't enjoy the game, you just want in and out without doing anything worth it...
This is why i'll never find survs a tractive to play, especially as a SOLOQ player. Killers will tunnel you out on 5 gen just for them to get their measely 7k points. Then they'll complain for you to genrushing and forcing them to tunnel and camp.
They're the kind of people to kick every pallet right away with no mindgames and shift W to the next one everytime so that nobody else can get a decent chase. they're the kind of people to slugg all team or tunnel you out because the survs MIGHT be doing A, B or C...
I mean... I can see a pattern here, don't you? I can name a lot of games both for survs and killers where I wasn't focused enough to get some points first and - boom - I don't have a chance for that. I was chased for 3 gens and died. Got a little more than 9k or 10k because I got nothing except full chase emblem and some bonuses from others' gens. Maybe I'm not really good at hockey but sometimes I just scream "let me do a gen, gosh, let me breath, let me HEAL AT LEAST BRUH STOP".
And sometimes I just scream "let me chase you, stop doing gens, gosh, I'm not SO good, there's no need in that rush, I only want my BBQ and then you're free to go and t-bag!!". But afterwards I go play survs, and face same kind of killer, and show empathy, and decide to pay attention to bones and chests instead of gens and... well... then we manage to get only 2 gens and die with same 15k as you've mentioned (or less) and killer get their 25-28k because apparently sometimes altruism against facecamper gives more benefits for killers (as free hits and downs and separate hooks) instead of survs.
I don't genrush (but maybe you'd call it that way) but I never ever let myself mess around doing nothing (archives don't count, guilty) if I'm not sure someone else is doing objectives. Otherwise I can die with less than 7k and you can't blame me for trying to get AT LEAST 15k :D
It's a guess-game and everyone wants to secure their fun first.
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So what you want the survivors to rush the killer? But then you get labeled as a bully squad? Lose lose situation man
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What's your point in copy pasting me? Camping and tunneling only happens if survivors let it happen.
I can count more times people with BT throw themselves at me than the times i went for the same survivor twice in a row...And i guarantee you the times Survivors do that by far is higher than the number of killers that actively tunnel. It's a 4 to 1 ratio when BT and Ds has been Meta for years and people throw themselves at killers cause they know they can't die, so don't come here and spin things when the math doesn't help you.
You have the numbers advantage, you can prevent tunneling and camping. The worst thing that can happen is you coming into a Basement Trapper Hag or Bubba, how manny times do you face Trappers and Hags!? Barely anyone plays them, the most you can complain about is Bubba's and even then you always have the option to avoid looping the basement to prevent a strong camping option.
Even if you face a Bubba you can do rescues, Trade. Trades favor survivors, you can see how manny hook states your teammates have so trading allows the killer to remain in the same spot camping while the others are free to still do gens.
If you fail to trade and get slugged then crawl away, if they pick you up and bring you closer then a teammate should use that opportunity to rescue the hooked guy.
Don't act like killers control how a match goes, cause they don't, never did, never will. A killer's objective isn't babysitting gens to avoid their completion, a killers objective is to sacrifice survivors, each survivor has 3 lives + whatever second chances they use for each life, that's alot of second chances. If someone dies on first hook is either them giving up or the team not rescuing...You can get away from camping and tunneling, if you aren't getting away from it then your team mates are simply not helping you.
It's not a guess game, Perks exists for a reason. Experience exists for a reason.
Securing your fun first is the mistake. FUN is the match as a whole, not individual parts. Doing gens might be boring AF but you can engage in chases, rescues, healing, etc. So if all you did was gens then that's on you. Go try and take a hit for someone, go rescue someone, go heal someone.
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Rushing the killer doesn't mean you're a bully squad. Rushing the killer was all survivors did to me in the Last PTB and i loved it. The Endurance Meta would actually make the game fun. People would spend more time engaging with the killer instead of securing whatever measely points they can and just dip out or troll the killer at exit gates.
IF finely tuned the Endurance Meta would be the best time for killers in DbD history. All we needed really was the Styptic nerf. DH was made avoidable, so without DH you won't have an endurance procc to help secure protection hits for MoM. Occasional slugging counters OTR and MoM cause slugs don't count for protection hits.
SO if you ask me, people are just dumb and focused on the wrong things. OTR for 80 seconds was too much, reducing it to 30 seconds would be enough of a time waste if killer decided to tunnel and wait out the endurance effect, but you can avoid OTR all together, with every killer, you don't need Pyramid Heads Cages to avoid OTR for example.
Plus because of the ratio of 4 to 1 it's much more likely to face "bad" survivors and as such the chances they'd pull off 5,6,7, 9067346583748 hits to down are drastically low.
I'd much rather have all my matches be like they were in the PTB than what they are in live build...
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Yes everyones wrong but you, you are a complete unit of an intellectual, it seems like you are just butthurt because you get rushed and don't like it, I smell low mmr entitled killer here who wants survivors to do as you want all the times....
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Fair point. The unfortunate side effect of these prestige changes will be that addon dependent killer may be played less than before. But they did say they would try and fix this so getting addons wouldn't be any more difficult than before, so let's hope they do that sooner rather than later.
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>>Camping and tunneling only happens if survivors let it happen.
Gen rushing only happens if killers let it happen. I can play this game too. Do you want me to advice you to use slowdown perks if you aren't able to prevent survs from completing gens? Just like you advice me to use second chance perks. Use noed. Use bloodwarden. You have plenty of perks to deal with genrushing survs. Do you think it's fun to deal with tunneling using DS? Nope. It's not. Tunneling games isn't fun even if you escape. And the game where you were tunneled out on 5 gens isn't fun too.
>>You can get away from camping and tunneling, if you aren't getting away from it then your team mates are simply not helping you.
I won't write here that you are completely able to get awat from genrushing. What I will write is I can't afford to check first if my team will help me in that case. Firstly I secure my object points to make my potential death worth it and then I'll check whether my teammates have BT and are able to rescue me from camping Bubba.
>>Securing your fun first is the mistake. FUN is the match as a whole, not individual parts. Doing gens might be boring AF but you can engage in chases, rescues, healing, etc.
Yeah. Fun is the match as a whole and just like you don't like games where all gens are done in 5 mins with no hooks for you, there's no fun in a match that is 4 mins long 2 of which I'm on hook, granted with 7k points.
It's not fun, it's frustrating, and nobosy wants that.
I can't even do gens/rescues/heals if the only thing I do is been chased the whole time and left to die on my first hook by ramdoms. So no. I prefer to do at least one gen and THEN being involved in chases knowing perfecly I have a decent amount points in my objective emblem. Then my game lasts at least some time and has fun inside.
And as a killer I prefer FIRSTLY make myself sure survs won't pop up all gens too soon (applying descent pressure) and THEN mess around knowing I'm able to have fun game and make at least couple kills. One difference from others - I want everyone has fun so I try to hook everyone twice before first kill and don't kill people before I'm sure I really have to do that to protect myself from not having fun. So sometimes it's too late and then I don't really have fun, you know. No one want feel unskillful and miserable. Neither survs nor killers.
>>It's not a guess game, Perks exists for a reason. Experience exists for a reason.
I can tell you the same thing. Use slowdown perks, they exist for a reason, just like your expirience. But here we are, arguing about survs who don't want to earn more than 15k. Do you let survs earn more points if they OBVIOUSLY are potatoes and too weak for you? I wish you do. I personally saw only few mercifull killers who let us do smth although we were much weaker than them. Most of the times it's "gg ez lol" or (bless them) silence with 15k for killer. Why don't they have fun to earn more than 15k? They don't really want to babysit us. That's understandable. But don't blame survs if you aren't able to stop them from doing gens and they don't want to babysit you either.
The whole your posts looks like you ask people to eNjOy tHe GaMe to loose in the end being proud about that. But you know, to loose proudly you have to feel game as even and entertaining. And if gamers (don't matter killers or survs) miss their opportunity to set up a win conditions for themselves firstly they most likely won't have fun at all and loose miserable. It works both for killers and survs. Survs aren't exclusive here. If both sides make this set up - it's fun for both. If not - fun is totaly optional.
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The problem is that they can rush the gen, but killer is shamed for rushing the kill amd punished with DS, add braindead safe loops and thats a loss for the killer.
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All of this boils down to one thing: the only objective survivors have is to do gens.
That's it. That's their objective. Not run in the killers face, not open chest, not cleanse totems or look around the map. It's just gens.
And that's the issue. In my opinion, Gen-rushing is leaving people to die on first hook while trying to do as many generators as possible with things like BNP and Prove Thyself. Deliberately ruining the game for other survivors and the killer to get yourself out. Genrushing is not just doing gens. That's the objective.
This is why all killers are not equal when it comes to getting survivors off of gens. Trapper can't move like Blight and pressure other gens quickly. Sure, with some setup, he can snowball. But his mobility is lacking. Slinger is capable in the 1v1, but he has no map pressure. Yet Spirit and Nurse have mobility that allows them to give that pressure almost all the time.
So until there are either new objectives for survivors, incentives for actually enagaging with the killer or killers are all balanced to a state where they are all equally powerful, survivors will continue to just do the objective they need to and leave.
TL;DR Survivors doing their objective is not gen rushing. If that's the only objective, what's the incentive to engage with the killer?
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