Oh, The Irony and the backlash
This is something that has been coming for a long time. Honestly, in the years I've played DBD as mainly a survivor, it's almost always the same conversation and I've read COUNTLESS posts about this update and I've seen both sides before it dropped and after it dropped. It's a back and forth in this community, but this time, the killers got what they wanted and it's actually breaking the game.
Before this update dropped, killer mains would scream and foam at the mouth to get perks like DS & DH nerfed because how it was used would give survivors a potential free win despite the fact that nothing is FREE in DBD unless either side MAKES it to be; a free 4k for the killer would mean every survivor making dumb plays or straight up giving up against certain people, situations, etc etc. (Which is what's happening right now.) A free win for the survivors is the killer goofing around or just straight choosing not to play in the same scenario as the survivors (WHICH USED to happen in certain matches.)
For the record, this is a concept everyone understood from the start when playing DBD; it's not what the perk is, it's HOW the perk is used that makes it annoying. Same thing with add-on's and abilities. People used DH to avoid hits and gain distance, and DS to avoid being tunneled or to strategically get everyone out; people chalked it up to Crutch perks because they couldnt out play it or avoid it. The other side doubles for killers as well.
The irony here is that (entitled or not.) killers mains practically ripped their hair out to get the META changed and get DS/DH nerfed/them getting buffed since they couldnt handle just outplaying certain situations, or saying GG and moving on, and claimed that survivors who used it had no skill for using ANY PERK that outplayed them. Now that it's BEEN nerfed and they've gained a rather NOTICABLE buff and forcing survivors to quite adapt and change to "Play better or cope" They're either silent with petty happiness, or they're FIGHTING for the survivors to be quiet and just take it, claiming that they STILL have no skill.
Funny how it's *Never enough for them* until they're getting 4k's easily and the survivors dont have a way to combat it (Especially SOLO Q Survivors) unless they go into SWF, which is ANOTHER thing they complain about!
This will either force people to leave DBD or go into SWF and the backlash will NOT be pretty...
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It's been "fix SWF or fix killers" situation for eternity, seems like they chose latter.
Of course soloq will die, I'm pretty sure it's all expected though.
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‘Break the game’
is it because I’ve always solo’d as survivor and never used bs perks like DH and DS that I’m not noticing how it’s now ‘broken’? Only thing that sucked as far as I can tell is the tool away my BP from WGLF.
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######### Dead Hard with its 75% usage rate, ######### dealing with lategame DS. The only thing overboard was the DS stun duration, but you have Off the Record now.
All the base game changes are welcome changes that mainly hekp the lower tier killers, M1 killers, and the killer meta perks were nerfed too, so don't act like all killers got were buffs.
There is nothing skill based about old Dead Hard. Used by even remotely decent players the perk was uncounterable for most of the roster except you guessed it, top tier killers.
Perhaps if you actually played killer more than once a week against brand new players for dailies your killer MMR would be high enough to know what it felt like to play against 4 DHs used by players that can actually utilize it.
You think Sprint Burst will take its place? Hell no, 99ing a Sprint Burst actually requiries some planning.
The only thing that needs to improve now is that solos need more info. Also in chase you have to actually drop pallets early now instead of greeding everything then dropping it after DH corrects your mistake.
As for complaining, survivors complain about Nurse all the time, and they're right. Her ranged addons are a sick joke, especially now that they make you blink faster too. Blight has the second strongest basekit, but also the second strongest addons. Some of the cast are so much more powerful than others that they're not even comparable.
Killers can stack slowdown anf if they manage to catch a weaker player in chase they can often tunnel them out before gens are done.
Camping out hook states is more common than ever. Yeah, it sucks, but blame BHVR for refusing to increase time on hook, or giving any info at all to solos, not killers for deciding to camp out a hook state when 3 gens pop before they've gotten 2 hooks.
I've gotten every achievement, every adept, Iri 1 on survivor a few times, all archives and consider myself a reasonably good survivor. And solo survivor can be intensely frustrating. Most of that though comes down to weak teammates in chase, or teammates that don't do gens or don't understand when they have to play altruistically. I've built up a far better understanding of how ######### solo Q can make you feel, that a lot of killers take ######### personal purely if you outplay them and will make it their mission to ruin your experience.
But it doesn't seem to me that you have even a fraction of empathy for killers who dealt with this oppressive DH meta since you have no idea what it's like to be on the receiving end.
This amount of hostility is ridiculous. I genuinely suggest you play killer for a few months, and as you reach higher MMR you'll see plenty of players that can loop very well without DH, who will still be hard to down in chase even after the update, just not INSANELY hard like before.
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I keep ALMOST playing dbd, but then I don't.
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I've played enough matches as killer and as survivor to understand where the changes and fixes needed to be. This isnt it.
Dead hard has ALWAYS been counter able and its something most people PREACH in this forum. Bait it out. Literally. Just bait it out. It's ironic how ALL killers now understand they can bait out DH and call it a day compared to before hand where they REFUSED TO accept that fact.
Another long winded tactic is breaking chase, I've actually earned multiple 4ks by going for survivors who arent too good at looping compared to the one who are. Take advantage of that, force the bad loopers to waste good loops which then punish the good loopers for their teammates mistakes. It's easier to do than you think.
Even in good MMR'S, with or without DH this stuff still stands regardless of whether you choose to refute it or not. It simply comes down to the same thing killer mains are laughing and preaching to survivors now.
**SKILL.**
Also if you could name 3 perks on the killer side that got nerfed, that'd be great.
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"Just bait it out". I refuse to believe you actually think a Dead Hard for distance to a resource when you otherwise would have been downed can in any way be baited out. Only the strongest killers have tools to bait DH. An M1 killer can do literally nothing against a DH for distance.
You clearly aren't playing even remotely close to high MMR, you're playing at the MMR where your opponents DH into walls. How can you comment on how strong the perk is when you've probably never seen as DH for distance as an M1 killer in your life?
As for nerfed killer perks, Corrupt, Ruin, Pop and NOED were all nerfed, all of which survivors disliked going against, and it was perfectly justified. They were oppressive and unfun, but now not so much. But maybe you didn't bother reading the killers nerfs of the patch notes since they don't apply to you, so you missed them.
I know to go for the weak link, but what you're basically saying and admitting to here is that tunneling out the weak link is the most effective way to play the game since strong survivors can run the killer for several gens. How is that fun for anyone?
What needs to happen now is that BHVR have to bridge the communication and info gap between solos and SWF asap. Basekit kindred has been asked for for years and it would purely benefit solos. Give us that. Give us the ability to see other survivors perks. An icon to tell if someone can recover themselves from the dying state, if someone has deliverance active, etc. Pings that could let you tell others where the killer is, etc. That's what the game needs. Promote 4v1 gameplay and teamwork.
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It was only 75% usage in high MMR (which the devs said only consist of a very small percentage of players). On the chart they released it showed 18% usage in low MMR and 45% usage in mid MMR. Still high usage, but a big difference from the claim that 75% of survivors were using it. Many survivors were not using it.
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That's a fair point actually. But it still shows you how strong the perk was, and I'll obviously be biased against DH since I saw 3-4 on average every match. And everyone knew how to use it. It always bought time. How much depended mostly on the strength of the resource they made it to.
Simply put, it felt unfair and unfun when 75% of the time you were finally closing in on survivors running a loop to finally get a down, you KNEW the DH was coming, and there was nothing you could do about it. And if you lunged at an injured survivor, they'd just DH on reaction and gain even more distance. No other exhaustion perk works this way.
#########, some survivors got so cocky they'd spin into your face, knowing full and well that if you swing and they used DH, you'd lose distance, so you just didn't swing. That felt humiliating, but luckily almost no one did that.
Weaker survivors will have to learn how to safely run tiles, and when to predrop when necessary. That, and we need to give solos info. Maybe nerf some of the more obnoxious slowdown perks like DMS, Deadlock and Eruption. Revert Thana buffs, tone down Gift of Pain. But nothimg yet. We have no idea what the true meta will be yet.
But other than that I think we will be in a genuinely good spot once survs get used to running other exhaustion petks.
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Doom post number 547936.
Where did this break the game? Queues haven't changed for both sides since before the patch.
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Agreed
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I made the mistake of playing anyways, SoloQ that is, although the games are about 50/50 my killers all have been sweaty AF using the best perks and add-ons. And about 80% of them have been Nurses and Blights 🤕 it's like volunteering to get bullied atm 😂
Maybe in a couple of weeks, it'll simmer down! Or I'll just make space on my pc for literally any other game lmao
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Buddy DH was better than most killer powers, let it go.
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Same here. Solo survivor and my main build is We’ll Make It, Kindred, Detective’s Hunch, and either Bond or new Lightweight (its amazing). The only reason games are tough for me right now is because people keep DCing when they get downed. Sadly I think the nerf to DH is showing people they really are not that great at evading the killer and its a hard pill to swallow.
Hopefully people will play around with new perks this week and find that there are plenty of other ways to play beside using DH to prolong chases ^^
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It's embarrassing because that's now the only thing I've been seeing ppl say. "Killer isn't overtuned, survs just can't play without their Dead Hard."
Like do we GENUINELY think Dead Hard was carrying survivors THAT much to where now suddenly killers are getting 4ks before a single gen pops? Like can we use our critical thinking skills here?
Because as a solo queue survivor who NEVER used Dead Hard, are my games suddenly worse because I can't use a "crutch" perk I never used to begin with?
Killers are going to blame Dead Hard until the end of time. When killer gets nerfed again they'll still find a way to blame Dead Hard lol.
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If it's happening, that's the case.
because anything that isn't dead hard is not THAT much of a change.
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I ended up playing, as well. It was pretty bad. All I did was unhook people and we would get 2-3 gens done per game. In soloQ.
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Oh totally no changes at all...it's not like they buffed every killer's chase potential + slowed gens down. And it's not like every killer in the game is stacking 4 slowdowns right now...right...right...totally not happening. It's totally the lack of Dead Hard killing the game...totes...totes...
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I dunno, tonight felt pretty normal. I had a pretty big disparity in match outcomes, and actually encountered survivors who were prepared to maximize value out of their loops & land flash saves consistently. Even so, I was still having more fun than before since the chases were much more left up to mindgames and tile knowledge rather than, ya knowwwwwww
Important to note that the approximately 50% usage rate in the median is still extreme by perk pickrate standards. Also, even survivors who chose to not run it still benefited in matches where their teammates did & used it to extend chases while making space for their non dead-hard running companions to focus on other things.
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All changes are slight, and slowdowns are overall getting a nerf, realistically speaking.
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My survivor queues went from several minutes during evenings pre-update to instant tonight. Can't say without hard data but it's very unusual for my region.
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I agree and I encourage survivor mains to speak up.
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ah yes the "bait it out" dh defender
i swear you people who defend this perk deserve all the miserable matches you can get
cope and get good or leave this game
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Dead hard is not always counterable, dead hard to dodge an attack is BUT dead harding for distance is quite literally impossible to counter for most killers. You cant bait it out because they're not doing it to dodge, they're doing it to gain distance to a pallet, window, or loop which they will always gain no matter when they activate it. The other problem with dead hard is that it doesn't just reward you for nothing, it rewards you for screwing up, its condition to activate is literally get injured. This isn't the only survivor perk that does this, unbreakable also rewards you for screwing up, you mess up by getting downed but oh wait you can pick yourself back up keeping you from getting snowballed because you and your teammates grouped up in the same spot. Most of the META killer perks at least rewarded you for accomplishing your objective, pop (get a hook and hit gen), Scourge Pain Resonance (Get a hook), Sloppy Butcher (Get a hit), STBFL (Get a hit), BBQ (Get a Hook), Thana (Get injures) etc. The only killer perk I can think of that rewards the killer for playing bad is NOED which coincidentally was one of the most complained about perks in the killer's arsenal despite not being that good. In conclusion:
DH needed nerf.
Also, killer perks that got nerfed:
Pop, Ruin, Tinkerer, Scourge Pain Resonance, Corrupt Intervention, NOED (Total 6)
Survivor Perks that got nerfed:
DS, DH, Self Care, Spine Chill, Iron Will, Borrowed time (Not really because you technically get a longer total time of endurance now than you did before but since endurance is built-in people won't see it as worth it ig) (Total 6)
Seems pretty fair, especially considering the fact that borrowed time is technically not a nerf.
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Ha! Jokes on you but I'm getting more fair matches now with Good Survivors/ SWFs. I know that they escape because I spent too much time on a chase because I ######### up instead on me spending too much in a chase because on the bazillion 2nd chances Survivors had. I love it that I don't get frustrated by Dead Hard anymore or the fact that Gens aren't popping while 2 Minutes into the game.
The theory that I believe in is that Survivors are so much boosted by their Perks that it became crutches. BHVR took away crutches and now "Good Survivors" are crying that they need to adapt and actually try harder instead of Holding M1.
btw isn't it better that everyone is dying as it means more gameplay and interaction on both side instead of the Matches where One Gen Jockey doesn't even meet the Killer the whole trial?
Survivors got carried by their 2nd Chances while Killer coped with it for Years. Now that Crutches are gone and Killers got Buffed everyone and their Mother that though they were good in the game is crying.
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The day of the patch release survivors had long queues and killer was instant. Right now it's inconsistent.
But if survivors were really dropping the game in masses, then queues would be considerably longer.
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This game is Deathgarden 2 aka Dead by December, I imagine an emergency patch will be deployed in August once BHVR realizes that 50% of their playerbase has dropped the game.
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Nothing better than the good old us vs them, right?
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The day the patch released, the matchmaking incentive was bugged to give 100% bonus to survivors regardless of queue times. And that bonus was stacked on top of all other bonuses. People were getting like 200k matches lol.
I'd say queues tonight with no unusual BP incentive are a more useful metric.
Maybe everyone decided to grind their killer rift challenges tonight and it will go back to normal tomorrow. Guess we'll see.
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And yet the forum was full of threads that claimed, that no one is playing survivor. Just because they saw the bonus on the screen. Completely ignoring the 5 minute queue.
I hope that things even out once the bonus is fixed and everyone gets nice short queues.
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DH was a crutch. I only used it at Iri grades to help pip up faster to Iri One since it made my games so much easier. It was busted and deserved a nerf.
OTR is far better than prepatch DS for anti-tunneling and can be combined with DS if you want. I tried that out but found OTR and SB meant the Killer usually couldn't catch up to me in the first minute anyway if they tried to tunnel me.
Now that I don't have to spend a slot on WGLF unless I actually want to I have a lot more freedom to try out different builds. As well, I'm definitely noticing I last longer against tunnelers and campers.
Overall, this update is definitely a success.
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Ok, Chicken Little...
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Do you seriously think 50% of playerbase will drop the game though?
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Who are you talking about?most people that play killers are happy with the update lol
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What's ironic is that killers have had to put up with a survivor sided game for years, with the kill rates since MMR came out being below 50%, yet they're still playing.
Survivors lose half a perk (you can still use DH to tank a hit, you just can't use it for distance to double the length of a chase anymore, and DS has a replacement in OtR) and apparently the game is going to die?
All of the survivors are going to uninstall after this?
So... who are the petulant little children again?
Survivors finally feeling what it's like to not win every game and they can't cope?
You could just... wait for your MMR to adjust you down to a suitable level.
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Dead hard was bringing unbalance.
Time to purge the playerbase.
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It's still not easy for all killers, as you say. The problem is that the randoms you get matched with in solo and SWF are awful, which skews the results massively, making it seem like killer is OP. We are on repeat every day with this.
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DS was a free escape during end game, which is why it got nerfed. I did not read the rest because, no offense, if you needed to be reminded of this fact, I am not sure the other points were going to be particularly valid. I suggest you just play killer instead, you might be happier.
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You make this sound like bHVR's stats had no say in DH getting nerfed.
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Can you show me the stats with the kill rates being below 50%?
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I usually have a go as survivor for the xp then play as killer after that I dont use dead hard and never did but my match was pretty much the same as always the only change I really noticed was BT after an unhook I ended with 1 hook and another escaped also on 1 hook
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My poor nurse is struggling. Need a buff asap.
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58% kill rate is low.
I'm sure you also think, by your logic, that freddy is better than nurse.
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Ok, but mentioning is one thing. I want to see the actual graphs with the stats. Where are those?
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You'll have to ask BHVR.
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What would you do with the information if you did have it?
C'mon be honest, you're not really looking for rational data are you, you're looking for an echo chamber that agrees with your view.
Stop all the moaning and just play the game.
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