New change effects on killers mindset camping and tunneling
We already have a clear understand on the previous meta is an arm race between survivor's extended chase and killer slow down gen perk.
What I will say below is based on killer mindset that I understand, I know people sometimes are lacking emphaty toward opposing side which is normal tbh. But this is what I am trying to break down what devs are intended here for the changes. Which is to promote less camping and tunneling.
Camping and Tunneling: This is the game feature, but I believe the dev themselves never want killer to do that since it lower the interaction between killer and survivors.
- Playstyle: They want to do it or its their play style. Result: low pip, low mmr, less interaction with survivor.
- Hopelessness to get into another chase, when gens flying too fast for them to feel sure that they can chase and down another survivor before another gens pop as survivor has too many protection. Thus, they will resort to tunnel or camping.
Now, I can only say on 2nd point due to the 1st point is not a fun way to play and have some draw back as well.
For the 2nd point, this is what the new change will try to fix. Yes, the dev did not do anything or give any punishment for the camping and tunneling.
Instead, they buff the play style that give killer a sense of security of downing survivor if they see them. And also, give some sense of comeback despite gens flying in the beginning of the game.
For Example:
Scenario 1 Before update:
- - Killer hooked a survivor while gens down to 2 or 3. Killer will think that cannot do anything meaningful to get into their favor as survivor has dh and do gen very fast. Result= Camping and tunneling
- - Killer hooked a survivor, survivor team mate try to bait for killer to leave hook, Killer saw the survivor and thinking that they have dead hard and can extend chase more. Not guaranteed down. Result= Camping and tunneling
Scenario 2 After Update:
- - Killer hooked a survivor while gens down to 2 or 3. Killer will think the gens is longer, and they can make a comeback.
- Cause: Longer gens time, encouraging killer to get into chase more with some sense of security
- Result: Less Camping and tunneling
- - Killer hooked a survivor, survivor team mate try to bait for killer to leave hook, Killer saw the survivor and thinking that they can down them in 30 sec. Leaving hook.
- Cause: Shorter time of downing survivor, encourage to chase other survivor after hook
- Result= Less Camping and tunneling
With new update:
- Chase perk and info perk are become more valuable as you can get to chase more than before.
- Chasing survivor will have a higher guarantee to down them within 30 sec compare to before.
- Killer can have a comeback even gens flying at beginning of the game.
- NOED will be less desirable as end game perk has a very limited windows to begin with.
What do you think?
Comments
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The only objection is that killers are still camping as badly as before
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The keyword here is encourage for killer to get into chase more rather than resort to camping and tunneling. I believe the devs themselves never intended for tunnelling or camping and they did not want to have a penalty to those play style as well. What they can do here is encourage the killer to be more proactive and increase interaction with survivors.
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I anecdotally object to your objection. Personally, every unfun tactic that killers used to employ has come back hundredfold, imo. Just my personal experience.I read your comment wrong. I wholeheartedly agree.
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Killers will end up tunneling and camping less once more survivors have their MMR stabilize and try out new combinations.
So far, out of the tunneling and camping Killers I've run into there was a 4K one game, there was one 0K game and the rest were 1K instead of the 2K to 4K they would have been prepatch.
It'll just take time for people to adjust their strategies.
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i think that dbd is a lost cause and that's not worth my time anymore. This game has a TON of issues, mainly toxic people who exploit things in their favour and wrote things that normally should punished with a permaban to say the least, but after all they are paying customers, they don't have reasons to ban or limit this kind of behavior until those... "subjects"... will pay for their content. Talking about the gameplay perspective things didn't changed much except for the fact that now people push generators even more, especially now that all the best gen defense perks for killers were nuked. This will only enforce tunneling. especially now that ds was nerfed into the ground (despite i don't like that perk it was the only thing that could stop a killer from tunneling). After this released patch i tried to do 5 matches as killer... all of them were awfully quickly with toxic pricks (auto dead hard is still a thing it seems btw), gens were flying like usual (10 seconds added didn't change anything, survivors needed a secondary objective to do but the devs as always didn't want to aknowledge that) and i barely had the time to do 3/4 hooks... this is just unplayable and not funny
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I had 2 games yesterday, outcome was only one gen done, killers still camping and tunneling. Nothing will change camping killers Behavior. In theory it should work, but on practice bad killers always will tunnel, camp and cry that survs are OP
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
see my point #1. Maybe its that individual play style. However, the new change is trying to make killer im point #2 become more proactive
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
They are not, and with new update it's EZ game for killers
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I'm still camping and tunneling because it's even more efficient now
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I don't bring gen defense perks anymore because they are all trash now. Overall I had more gen defense before the patch. Yes gens are longer but they were easier to defend last patch with the superior gen defense perks.
I still tunnel just as hard every game. If you want tunneling to stop you need to give me a reason not to do it or make the survivor objective slower (SWF were not really affected by this patch). Alternatively you need to completely change the game ; an example would be letting killers turn off competed gens.
As long as survivors eliminate generators the killer's goal will be to eliminate the survivors one by one.
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Since I wasn't tunneling or camping by default like a lot of killers do, I feel like the changes are good and make the game more enjoyable.
As you say, I don't feel like I NEED to tunnel/camp someone because at first chase there are 2 gens completed and another one is going to pop as soon as someone comes to unhook.
Now I can go for a walk and kick some gens, maybe start another chase or go back to the hook and chase the surv who just unhooked someone and still get a good game without tunneling.
That being said, I think I only had 1 game which ended with 2k or less since the patch, and most games end with a 4k. And I play a lot these days.
I don't know if survivors need to adapt and be less greedy at chases or that's how it's going to be for now on.
aOn the other hand, as a non DH user as survivor, I feel like the killer buff it's noticeable and I am not able to give a long chase since the update. That's okay, but for some reason a lot of killers still want to tunnel and camp even when they don't need to, because they want to win even if they are playing the most boring way. I don't understand why they do that since I don't enjoy this playstyle, so my guess is they are just bad at chases and they still feel like they need to camp and tunnel.
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NOED is still the best killer perk...
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The problem is, tunneling and camping got even more efficient. The 5 sec bt doesnt help anyone.
And from my personal experience killer tunnel and camp even more. Why give up an effective tactic? They dont get less BP, they are not punished for it, they are most of the time revarded.
Best case: 1 survivor on hook, rescuer down.
Good case: Hook trade
Worst case: Everyone is atleast injured and you can go after them.
Since its not punished and very effective, it will not change.
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Incentivizing in and of itself doesn't work.
Ask Deathgarden. When faced between the choices of two paths to a victory, players will just resort to the Occam's Razor option and to hell with any and all incentives.
There's no reason to forgo an efficient strategy, that has been made even more efficient in the update, for something else that is merely 'incentivized' and requires more effort. Camping and tunneling do work and are less of an inconvenience than any other approach.
If you want incentives to actually push in some direction, you also have to put effective obstacles to hinder other pathways. Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking (like the devs have for this update).
Because in the end, despite very few be willing to admit it, almost everyone values winning above anything else. Which includes being willing to win in the most trivial way, even if that comes at the cost of sacrificing every game interaction.
Give players the option to secure a win by simply pushing a button and they'll eventually all take that option when faced with actual risk of losing. The only difference will be in the timing.
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Remove healing problem solved.
Regards, a Killer main.
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its happened every single game since the update? Killers can get the stacks of thana and camp whilst it takes 110 seconds to do one gen, then the survivor is dead on first hook at 120 seconds. Makes sense for the killer to just camp.
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Camping and tunneling are still widely used because they are even stronger, 10 seconds per gen make finishing all the gens before the Survivor croaks much harder, the hit CD reduction makes hook saves impossible without trading, before the update you could at least unhook after eating a hit and with luck or a nearby pallet/window around you could avoid getting downed, now its a guaranteed hook trade.
BHVR listening to the "I DO THIS BECAUSE I CANT DO ANYTHING ELSE!!" crowd was a mistake, hoping people would self police themselves is a mistake, some people will constraint themselves but a good chunk will always chose the path of less resistance, camping and tunneling were strong so they used it, now they are stronger, why would they stop doing it? why would anyone stop using a strong tactic made stronger? because altruism so everyone has fun? this forums are the perfect example mains dont give a damn about anyone fun but theirs.
The only way to make people stop camping is forcing them to stop or by implementing harsher counters for camping, self-policing rarely has any effect.
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You don't want to punish players, you want to give incentives.
That's why i still think basekit BBQ + Kindred would have been a more healthier choice, for example.
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This is a good suggestion.
After a lot of Camping and Tunneling.
As a player who primarily plays the killer, I get irritated.
I have been thinking about why there are still a bunch of killers trying their best to Camping and Tunneling when an environment no longer needs Camping and Tunneling.
As a conclusion, Camping and Tunneling need become completely useless.
And the survivors get a huge advantage from it.
Let these two behaviors be things that killers try to avoid.
If you see a killer who doesn't camp and tunnel, chances are it's me.
I can say I'm not strong, but I'll keep practicing.
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I was never one for camping and tunneling when I played Killer because I enjoy the chase. I only did it during the endgame because there is no other objective for me.
However I am all in for further reducing the reward for camping and tunneling. As a survivor however I noticed that mostly the really bad Killers will camp and tunnel. Most of them have no chance to end a chase quickly and thus fall back to the only option they have left.
Maybe, just maybe it would be an idea to increase the time on the hook like they increased the time on the generators. But not equally across all stages. Increase mostly the first stage so that the Killers gets rewarded for chasing down and hooking everybody at least once and punished for just staying near the hook.
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You missed the third reason that people camp.
3) Some people just want to watch the world burn
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