Stop saying DH got nerfed

Options

DH didn't just get nerfed. Killers also got buffed across the board in chase and camping and tunneling got buffed. They also gutted every single survivor perk that was reasonably useful.

DH was not the only thing that got changed.

Comments

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,202
    Options

    If you are struggling, go check CoconutRTS's last video. It may help.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,015
    Options

    DH objective did get nerfed. It's no longer a generically good at extending chases. You actually have to time the dead hard to get the extra health state and it doesn't work when you are already in deep wounds meaning some killers are good at countering dead hard innately.

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
    Options

    Eh, I will call it a buff for the same reason people pretended the Pig changes were buffs.

  • Kees_T
    Kees_T Member Posts: 810
    Options

    It's still strong, against Killers which have fast attacks like Nurse, Blight, Oni, Billy, Huntress, Trickster, Pig, Pyramid Head, etc.. it's easy to time against them and get a free speed boost to another safe area.

    It removed the stupid part where the Killer and Survivor got into a stare match against who will lunge or dead hard first.

  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,177
    Options

    How much time do you think dead hard added to a chase on average and how many survivors brought it? If the current exhaustion perks don't buy as much time in chase then the survivor team has lost time to do things.


    .5 Ms and lower buffs to things are helpful yes, but they wouldn't suddenly be the difference between a killer curb stomping a game in the first 2 minutes or not. Which according to the forums is what is happening.

    If you had to either revert dead hard or the 10 sec+ other minor buffs I would bet money most killers would say revert the times and keep dead hard dead.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,202
    Options

    Full disclosure : I'm struggling too. I had a few builds of my own (OTR, Lucky Break, Sprint Burst, BT) and the video kind of completed the missing pieces.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    As you can see by this forum, survivors don't want to adapt to changes, don't want to try other perks. They got used to DH so much, they forgot how to loop without it, so they can't extend the chases by 1 button anymore. They getting salty and tilted. They finding exuses in "tunneling" or "killer buffs".

    Other survivors are indeed a good survivors who still doing great, they escape killers the same way as before, they trying to find new builds they play smart.

    Seems like you're the one of them, and I like you.

  • dictep
    dictep Member Posts: 1,333
    Options

    no, it’s not the end of the wold. It’s the end of the game

  • StarMoral
    StarMoral Member Posts: 938
    Options

    I swear at this point survivors who complain were the ones using Dead Hard/Decisive every game.

    I've legit been playing survivor all day SOLO QUEUE and haven't ran into the game breaking issues they continue to spout. No eternal slowdowns, no camping, I only was tunneled ONCE by a Plague that missed her power all gane but my team managed to get several gens while I was being chased, hell even other solo survivors were doing fine (if not amazing) with gens, saves, and chases.

    And ya know what I ran? Overcome, Off The Record, Lucky Break, and Empathic Connection with a Med-Kit.

    I play to help my teammates survive, not just myself. That's why, out of all the perks in my arsenal, Empathic Connection is hands down my favorite.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,553
    Options

    Yeah, like every other thing that's ended this game so far. Frame rates, Dead Hard validation, boons, tunneling, camping, Boil Over, Undying, the first DS nerf, SWF, Epic Games Store, K-Pop...

    If the kill rates are too high, which I bet they are, they'll walk the buffs back. Everyone needs to chill out and have some patience instead of crying doomsday. Not to mention, half the people I play with haven't updated their builds yet and are still using the nerfed old meta. There's a level of adaption that has not fully happened yet and I'm waiting for the dust to settle.

  • BenSanderson55
    BenSanderson55 Member Posts: 454
    edited July 2022
    Options

    They could of deleted dead hard for all I care and thats what they should of done BUT nothing else, to start. I dont think BHVR understands overall that when troubleshooting a problem you dont change many variables at once.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,202
    Options

    Killer queues already closer to their normal length. I'm versing teams that are handling themself quite nicely. It's obvious they aren't used to their new builds yet but it's coming along. I've got a 3 escape against my Blight (granted, I'm not very good with it) and a two against my Nurse. The latter is a decent score given it's still early. Speaking of what's good against a Nurse, OTR helped them quite a bit and so did two almost perfectly timed DH.

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627
    Options

    I would say DH is definitely nerfed. It is correct that IF dead hard works, then it is better, because the killer doesnt just whiff and the survivor gains 4m, instead the killer wipes, while the survivor gets a 2 sec speed boost. BUT it is way harder to pull as you require almost perfect timing (hello dedicated servers) and as killer it became way easier to outplay. No value at windows and dropped pallets as you cant vault during the endurance effect, no distance anymore... so the better value when successful is not compensating the loss of situations where you successfully can trigger it.

    nah, this part is still there, especially once you know the survivor has it.

    tunneling wasn't buffed? BT was kinda basekit before because nearly everyone ran it so this hasnt changed a lot. and since BT is kinda always there now (you dont know if you should wait 5 sec, 15 sec or 80... so just hit instantly) near an unhook you now have the option between a healthy survivor or an injured enduring survivor. same effort to down, so kinda obvious that you should go for the guy you can kill or put to dead on hook if you play it efficiently rather than fun and fair. this part makes the decision to tunnel easier. and regarding the DS nerf... I dont think we have to discuss. this is objectively making tunneling way easier and is an explicit buff to tunneling.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,202
    Options

    Thanks but I think it's kind of natural when you play both roles. (And now that I play a bit more killer again, I can see the builds of my tricky opponents : a bonus)

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    Before the update:

    "Oh he got unhooked is there a BT? No bt, does he have DS? No ds... Ez tunnel boy"

    After the update:

    "He got unhooked and gonna move with haste to this paller\window, I can't wait this 5 seconds, I have to hit him"

    *hit the survivor*

    "Now I need to chase him again"

    I'm literally starting to have a BS with such comments as "Tunneling is easy now".

    Dear survivor, please get real. Tunneling is much harder and unefficient to do now.

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627
    Options

    I dont see how any of your lines is valid.

    before the update, how did you know if there is BT/DS or not? you had to eat it and then it is too late, you would rather say "damn, if I knew I wouldnt have tried to tunnel". also if you cant wait 5 seconds with a 7% haste, you wouldnt be able to wait with a 12 second BT either, so no difference in that point

    and you totally ignore my point that with BT being basekit, it is literally an equal effort to chase the one or the other survivor. both need 2 hits, in what scenario it would be better to not go for the tunnel?

    the only reason you could choose to not tunnel is the fear of DS and this got nerfed, this is a straight buff to tunneling. the only option to not go for the tunnel might be if you get the hit before the unhook, but even then you would probably go after the unhooked person right after you hooked the unhooker, if not even choosing to slug instead

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,553
    Options

    Tunneling's exactly the same as it was before. I don't consider that a good thing, because I wanted the update to make survivors more resistant to it, but anything you could do with BT or DS is in Off the Record now. (For DS and BT, well... DS is worse now, but DS + OTR is better than old DS + old BT unless you get hit straight off the hook.) It's the exact same reliance on a meta perk to save survivors from tunneling, but the perk does a decent if imperfect job - if anything, I think OTR is a bit better for getting away from the killer than DS was. The only issue is that not every survivor has switched over to it yet, and half of them still have BT and are expecting everyone else to have BT.

    The choice between a healthy survivor and an injured survivor with Endurance hasn't changed either. If anything, it used to be a guarantee that the injured survivor would not have Endurance if you waited 12s, but they probably still will now, so you could go after the healthy one now if they're closer because it's 2 hits either way. Or you go for the one that's closer to being dead, but that's the original problem with tunneling and how the dominant strategy is empirically unfun, and again the one they failed to address in a meaningful way.

    And when it comes to endgame and how DS is disabled there... I never considered that tunneling. So I'm not seeing the explicit buff here.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    I'll tell you one thing and not gonna apply anymore.=)

    Before the update, If I decide to tunnel 1 survivor, there is nothing can stop me, not a single perk, not a single bodyblock, not a single thing.

    I'm not playing stupid, believe me, If I was tunneling - this guy is dead. Thats it.

    Do you really think if the killer decide to tunnel, that DS is gonna stop him? DS even with 5 seconds wasn't a problem my guy. Just eat it and get back to buiseness. BT wasn't providing a haste, so I could just block any window or pallet for that survivor to reach and wait this 12 seconds like that.

    Whats going on now?

    5 seconds haste with endurance is QUITE enough for survivor to reach anything and start looping. I'm not even gonna say about 15 seconds...

    I can't get first to this window or pallet anymore coz of haste. So it's a 100% chase at any scenario now, I have to chase him all the way again.

    DS is still a joke as before no words for.

    I tried to tunnel survivors in 3 games so far, it was not working, I was losing time badly because of trying to tunnel.

    You think what you want, if you getting tunneled right now and think it's a problem, you might haven't even been tunneled before the update.

  • HectorBrando
    HectorBrando Member Posts: 3,167
    Options

    Seeing the "buff" Pharmacy and Calm Spirit received I bet Adrenaline will be buffed like this, it triggers at the start of the match but kills you on use.

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627
    Options

    Well, yes, agree with the first part of your text. tunneling IS unfun and should have been adressed. What I say is that doing the decision to tunneling has become easier to make, because both targets are equally hard to down. And tunneling, if successful, is still the most efficient play for a killer, as a 3v1 is a game changer the earlier it happens. and why should you go for a non-hooked survivor if both are equally hard to catch?

    To DS, Im not talking about the endgame removal, with buff Im talking about the 3 second stun. this is basically worth a one time old-dead-hard in regards of distance you get, probably not even being sufficient to get to a safe area. a 5 second stun lets the survivor get away 20m (or maybe 15m if you consider the drop animation) which takes 25 seconds to catch up when running in a straight line

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627
    edited July 2022
    Options

    if you dont wanna argue... ok

    can just repeat, if 5 seconds of haste is enough to reach a safe spot, then 12 seconds are surely enough. this is not a 7% speedboost, this is a 140% time boost. you know what killers do when survs start to bodyblock or sabo? change direction, and survs can do the same, then body block you too when moving properly. if you cant outplay the current basekit BT then I guess we dont have to argue

    and the way you argue... I can do it the same. "Post update, if I try to tunnel a guy, then he is dead no matter what". pre patch survivors sometimes managed to survive several gens with old BT/DS combo and post patch havent found those yet

    and I dont say DS is gonna stop him, I just say DS did a better job. btw Im talking from a killers POV, not a survivors ;)

  • Gary_Coleman
    Gary_Coleman Member Posts: 732
    Options

    DH got nerfed?

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options
  • RenRen
    RenRen Member Posts: 1,443
    edited July 2022
    Options

    I don't know what it's like for other people but it's not the camping, tunneling, gen speed, the shorter hit cooldown, the faster pallet break, it's none of those. It's how well the survivors are looping and for some reason they are doing worse. Even though nothing changed about the looping besides dead hard.

  • Gladonos
    Gladonos Member Posts: 392
    Options

    Survivors would love that change too cool. We should make a petition to removed all those damn killer buffs then.

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627
    edited July 2022
    Options

    and that is the issue. they dont have dead hard anymore. at least that's what I think, because I noticed a special behavior in pre patch DH chases.

    it was a life saver and if played correctly like a third health state. with old dead hard I noticed several times that survivors play super greedy and go for the omega mindgames, pulling them off several times and being rewarded because this is how you play tiles. if survivors loop like that, it was most likely already an indicator that they have dead hard equipped

    then they fail one mindgame and get away with dead hard. after that, often the down comes quickly because they seem to get afraid as they are not guarded anymore with a safe escape and play tiles differently. which is what you experience, a survivor that has no dead hard anymore.

    by the way, all the small buffs you mentioned add up. like the shorter speed boost and shorter cool down can make the difference if you can actually make it to the second next loop or if you have to stick to the next loop you find, saving 10 seconds of shift+W from loop 1 to loop 2

  • JibbyNeutron
    JibbyNeutron Member Posts: 208
    Options

    DH got nerfed

  • NOEDENJOYER
    NOEDENJOYER Member Posts: 237
    Options

    Are we playing the same game? Tunnelling got buffed because gens take longer and DS is no longer as powerful as it used to be.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,553
    Options

    OTR is essentially the new DS. They swapped one meta anti-tunnel perk for another. Personally, I like OTR more than I ever liked DS.

    As for the gens, that doesn't directly affect tunneling, just makes killer easier/survivor harder in general. It's a buff to camping because the anti-camp strategy has always been to do gens while the killer isn't bothering to defend them, and this makes stuff like basement Bubba more viable, but I don't see that as directly adjacent to tunneling, because tunneling doesn't have a set timer, just the strength of whoever's looping versus the strength of the killer.

    Like, I'm not going to deny that killer got a big buff this patch or that BHVR failed to address tunneling, but I don't see tunneling in and of itself as any stronger or weaker than it was before. Which is still very strong, and I don't like that, but saying tunneling is stronger because DS got nerfed is false.

  • Prex91
    Prex91 Member Posts: 764
    Options

    Dead hard got nerfed. Is a good perk now. Under pallet is really strong. Not op for distance. Timing is strict, killer can bait it often. Strong when tiles covers the animation, so you dont know if hit or not, risking dead hard or pallet stun/drop. I see it good almost only on tiles (could be really strong).

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,168
    Options

    Tunneling did got buffed no ds as threat anymore I tried one game to tunnel did it in less than 2 minutes and felt bad but I had to see how powerful it is now.

  • Deadeye
    Deadeye Member Posts: 3,627
    Options

    doing the same. tried some hard tunnels and worked well, now playing fair until gens fly, then tunnel to catch up

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 950
    Options

    I like the new dh I just think making it 0.5 was a bit overkill with the latency of the game, it's so unpredictable it should have been left at 1 second, plus the animation is longer than the actual effect... it's laughable how half assed the change was.

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
    Options

    I'm 100% sure dead hard IS biggest reason of why people suddenly started losing, because all other teammate can't prolong chase for 30 additional seconds, all those who "didn't used dead hard" can't finish gens.

    It's pretty much confirmed by the fact most only complaining about solo q.

  • ACleverName4Me
    ACleverName4Me Member Posts: 445
    Options

    Dude killers didn't ask for faster kicking or recovery they asked for the dead hard nerf. If you removed the 10% faster stuff killers got y'all dead hard crutching survivors would be slugs STILL because you're not good without it.