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DCing and Suiciding on Hook is a Symptom
Comments
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Thank you for having a mature insight I to this. I've been playing almost exclusively solo survivor since the patch. Never relied on the meta so my expectations vs reality aren't changed at all on the survivor side, I've even managed to adept Jonah and Yoichi over the last few days.
Do I think the patch over buffed some things? Yes. Has my solo experience changed much? No.
The biggest difference I've experienced is the number of people immediately giving up on first hook. When they do I try to keep playing but if I see a second person doing it? I'm out. Sorry, 2v1 at 3-5 gens remaining when I'm the one that's powered two 90+ second gens by myself I will also give up on first hook.
Imo it's a combination of players mentality and overtuned changes in the patch that the increase of DCs/Suicides is a symptom of. Had they left gens at 80 and simply buffed a couple perks and the hit cool down it could be an entirely different experience. Had they added 10 seconds, not buffed cooldowns and buffed some of the perks it could also be a whole other experience. There's no real way of knowing.
We're at the point where BHVR has multiple balance avenues to take. They could finally work on the solo vs swf imbalance and get that part of the game closer to the balance it needs. They could take the easy route and revert a couple buffs or nerfs to attempt balance. They could also use this time to implement more chore mechanic changes that can achieve balance. Patch 6.1.0 is a transitional patch and if BHVR has proven one thing to me with DBD it's that nothing stays the same forever.
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Symptom of boredom and entitlement, really.
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Well...if you dont have fun by ruining game to killers (as survivor), so go on, and ruin game to other survivors, who worship this messy patch. :)
Post edited by Lukepro2315 on0 -
The only change I can see to DC penalties that might be plausible is increasing the first DC penalty to 30 minutes. That gets them out of at least one round, if not two, of games.
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Yeah, this is a symptom of entitlement and losing privilege rather then of there being a problem with the game itself.
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What's the worse that could happen? Easier less stressful games? I'm not going to stay in a match where my teammates troll me. You also can't force me to wait on a hook.
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Disconnecting is not as powerful as just not playing at all and letting the player numbers speak for themselves.
I mean - it's better than ruining the game for everybody on your team.
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And a camp and unsportmanlike should resolve in a Killer having huge penalties.
Such as less BP.
Unable to queque as a killer,forced to play SoloQ survivor,R.I.P killer bias by then :))
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People throwing the game/abusing a feature is symptom of the game health, I don't think that is a valid logic honestly.
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Ya I agree with this, it does show the health and state of the game and every body that's is sitting here saying it's not and just excusing it for "free kills" is immature
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What if I tell you that, unless you have the stats to show me, the plural of 'anecdote' is not and never will be 'evidence'?
I see lots of DCs and suicides.
Thing is - I saw just as many before the patch.
I suspect that this entire thing is 50% the equivalent of 'change this or I troll ur game' and 50% people seeing what they are looking for to support their position.
No, it indicates that we need stronger penalties for DCing and probably something to stop suiciding. Basically every PvP game I've ever played had tons of ragequits, unless there was a strong penalty for doing this.
I totally disagree.
Survivors have plenty of strong options to help them in the endgame, as well as some new tools like baseline BT (allowing you to trade a lot easier).
A few nerfs were a bit heavy handed (welcome to killer life for the past 3 years) but most of them were fine, and will - once people stop it with the Chicken Little-ing and adapt - likely end up with a much healthier game overall.
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Massive punishment for unintentional disconnection
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"I saw just as many before the patch"
using your own words, can you show evidence?
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Honestly it shows health and state of the players than game.
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intentional or not, they deserves to be punished because game has been ruined.
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Ya, lol that's what I meant sorry,but completely
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Giving people incentives to stay in the game is just too much I guess. No one wants to stay in a game that they feel isn’t worth their time. With the current update you have instant queues. You also have no bloodpoint incentive to stay in a match. You can just leave and instantly get a better match which will probably be a better use of your time.
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Patch did absolutely nothing to address camping and with the extra time for gens there's more camping than ever. The joke that is base kit borrowed time is worthless when the killer just parks on the hook. I've seen games where survivor goes down in first 15 or 20 secs. Camped outta game. Oh do gens? Epic idea, except solo queue can't coordinate because devs seem to feel SWF should be the essence of the game. Oh the fun bonus I'd the survivor trying to kobe because they don't wanna sit there cranking themselves while Bubba revs his saw to the face whole time.
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This can be seen as the symptom the DC penalties aren't enough.
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Do you think DC penalties mean a thing to a person not enjoying the game.
And also, isn't the whole killer-theory on camping to give killers an incentive not to camp, not to punish them. Doesn't that not also apply to DCs?
Maybe instead of punishing DCs, maybe incentives should be made to keep players from DCing.
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I'd rather see them not ruin games for the ones who are playing and trying.
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Camping ruins games too. Why is it that killers need compensation to not ruin a survivors experience but a survivor should be punished for ruining a killers experience.
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I always see this argument, "If survivors are DCing and giving up on hook it's a sign there's something seriously wrong with the game"
I'd be interested to know what specific balance issues are being demonstrated when I down a survivor with clown or wraith or something and they DC, pre- or post-patch.
If you (general "you") think that survivor is unplayable you will be compelled to instantly remove yourself from any game you load into, why tf are you still playing survivor?
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Do I need to point out the killer is in the opposing team? A DC mostly ruins teammate's.
Besides, camping and tunneling, as annoying they can be, are valid tactics.
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I think the part you are missing is that "If survivors are DCing and suiciding "more-than-normal", it's a sign of game health issues".
That seems to be happening after this patch at an extremely high rate, unseen in previous patches. It indicates that survivors (maybe solo queue) hate the game so bad that they are DCing/Suiciding on hook.
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Increasing the penalty for multiple DCs in a week might help, but there’s not much Behaviour can do about sore losers intentionally killing themselves on the first hook. The only solution to that would be to change the game so you can’t try and pull yourself off a hook at all and I doubt they’d ever do that.
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I'm not going to waste time on arguing semantics, because we can go down that rabbit-hole all day long. And to be honest, that's just static anyway, unimportant. Either the developers believe in incentives to prevent bad behavior or they believe in punishments for bad behavior. You can't have one set of rules for one group and an entirely separate set of rules for another group.
Either Killers need incentives to not tunnel/camp-at-gen-5, which means that Survivors also need incentives to not DC/Suicide
or
Killers needed punished for tunnel/camp-at-gen-5, which means Survivors also need punished for DCing/Suiciding.
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Hate to be "That guy" but killers had to put up with survivors for years being dominant and rude, I've seen it myself and there's still plenty of videos showing examples of what I mean on youtube, Killer's were insulted and accused of being toxic for simply trying to win when odds were against them. What did Killer's do? THey adapted and tried to play the game while making their complaints. However, survivors not getting their way has had a huge backlash that makes me hesitant to side with them because of how angry and upset they seem over 1 update that can easily be undone if it really is that bad. They've undone things before from what I can tell and if it were that bad they probably would. But survivors are acting like everyone is out to get them while acting like they've been the victim the entire time and have their hand totally clean.
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Loser behavior. There is always a chance to comeback. And even if you don't comeback and win, it may help your fellow teammates escape.
It's a PvP game. If you don't have the energy and ability to hang, play something else.
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I believe killers need incentive not to camp and tunnel, but DCs need to be punished. Let's chalk it up to opinion, I just wanted to precise the way I saw that picture.
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But why? Both are unwanted behaviors. Why would giving incentives to one side and punishing the other side make sense.
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I don't what to tell you. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
Listed in "not bannable offenses".
DC however, is bannable and doesn't even need to be reported.
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Isn't this really just logic chopping.
I mean I can say that suiciding-on-hook is a legal tactic, just the same as 1-step-camping.
You're kind of ignoring the big picture for all of these little meaningless nitpicks.
As a whole, you either incentivize players or you punish players. Incentivizing one side and punishing the other side is unfair and your player base knows it. The worse thing a game can be is unfair.
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But that's the thing. I don't think the game is fundamentally unfair at the moment. I believe the only real issues are the MMR putting players with different levels together (same team or opposing player) and the people leaving instead of trying to do better.
Every solo game I've played since 6.1.0 was either ruined by these, either ranging from fine to fun. It also went progressively better as the rage-quitters are staying at the bottom of the MMR pit.
There may be adjustments tomorrow. We'll see what happens.
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You don't address the symptom as a medical doctor, you address the problem. If DCing/Suiciding on hook is increasing, then it's a sign of a problem. Addressing DCing/Suiciding on hook does nothing, because you're addressing the symptom.
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No, there is never a chance unless the killer stops playing
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It depends on the diagnostic. One part of the problem is players giving up. Survivors had an unfair advantage that was removed (stated). The game was too hard for killers (stated). The devs have attempted to fix both these issues. They'll monitor and tune the changes, as stated. Nobody sane is saying everything is perfect.
Instead of sabotaging matches, they should make a pause for a week or two, or try to play normally and learn something new. I don't blame them for giving up. I blame them for ruining it for the ones that didn't.
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When people are disconnecting because they don't want to play your game anymore it is a problem.
People can say it's scummy to disconnect and it is, you're ruining the game for your team, but if people are throwing games en masse it means something is wrong and the game isn't fun.
Increasing the penalty won't do anything but encourage people to pick up another game in the meantime and forget about dbd. Why wait ten minutes to play a game where you're just going to get crapped on?
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Fun fact: sometimes there is no rage involved but boredom and annoyance watching 3 teammates make no attempt whatsoever to get you off a hook and let you struggle through almost all of phase 1 on the hook. You make one last attempt to free yourself - and then ? struggle on the hook or just let go to move on to a more interesting game ?
Ever considered that or is anyone who does not play along a stupid and boring round automatically "raging" ?
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2nd hook and 5 gens? It's GG at that point with extended gen times.
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How do you know they're throwing tantrums? RQ and suicide on hook is ez, do it seconds, coming to the forum or taking the time to submit something to devs shows dedication to being butthurt. Immaturity or moving on? lol
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I'm sorry, but I don't blame people for quitting when they go against Blight, Nurse and Spirit using a ton of slowdown perks (tunneling/camping as well). Let's not forget Thana Legion as well. I'm talking about suiciding on hook, not DC'ing.
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Honestly, I can't blame people for quitting against a lot of stuff. It's like Killers expect 4 people to continue playing a miserable game just so they can have fun.
Who in their right mind sits through a Blight who has already killed someone and 5 gens are left. A Nurse that's slugged everyone in 1 minute (I don't even understand why people play Nurse at this point. I mean honestly, do people actually like winning in 30 sec flat. Seems lame). A Legion where the game lasts 30 minutes. Face-camping at gen 5.
If the killer obviously doesn't want to play the game, why should the survivor.
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I feel like people have this fascination with survivors DCing or killing themselves on hook always being moments of "I saw trickster and instantly DC'd," when in my experience it is rarely like that.
It's usually that one survivor keeps getting proxy camped and tunneled and is on death hook while the killer ignores everyone else. Or it's 3 minutes in, maybe 1 gen is done and people are already on death hook or slugged. Or they just watched a moment of complete idiocy from team mates (I just watched two healthy survivors get grabbed off the same gen. Picked up one, dropped, then picked up the other—stupid). Or they are being camped and the match has barely started. Or it's a 2v1 and they want the other survivor to have a better chance at getting the hatch.
There are those insta-DCs, but in my experience so far those are not the most prominent type of DC. Those insta-DCs are also the only kind I can't think of a reason why someone would DC. At least the examples I put above I can usually get an idea of why, and typically I don't blame them for their choice.
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DCing and suiciding on hook shows, must of the times, a great display of salt and ragequits are very satisfaying to see, a sympton of a salt production going on
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This is one of the only rational responses in this entire thread.
People can do their moral grandstanding about DCs being an unforgivable sin all they want, but it does nothing to look at and try to resolve the actual issue at hand. Instead of vilifying, the question needs to be “why?”, and the answer has to be tangible and practical.
There will always be people who do these things. But whether you agree with it or not, more people doing it a game issue, not just an individual issue.
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