Good Reasons why should BHVR balance around Solo queue?

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D3spair
D3spair Member Posts: 713

Just for Discussion, Let's be generous and say that 50% of all DBD Players are Solo queue players. Of all the complaints here saying that Killer was overbuffed as Solo queue is much more miserable.

My opinion is to have Solo queue get buffed so that SWF should be more aligned to Solo queue and Killer can get buffed more. but I see a lot of People here voicing that Killer should get nerfed instead.

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  • WeaverReaver42
    WeaverReaver42 Member Posts: 210
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    Nerfing killer would just leave them vulnerable to SWF, which I believe is what lead to the low kill rates that behavior were talking about. Buffing solo queue would let behavior (and us) have our cake and eat it too. Buffing solo queue would also make more games interesting since it wouldn't just be dependant on killer, but also the teams skill, which would lead to less one sided games. Personally I believe they should do something about people killing themselves on hook and DCing as it's obvious what they are doing now isn't stopping people from trying to ruin the game for others or ragequitting which has the same effect (also camping and tunneling should be addressed but I feel they should both be addressed together rather than individually). Overall, while killers might be a bit overbuffed right now- we can't tell how much is because killer is too strong and how much of it is from the incosnistency you have on solo q. (I literally had a game where all 3 teammates tried killing themselves on hook, I have little doubt that others are experiencing at least a small amount of that- which would contribute to the awful experiences people are having).

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    You balance the game around solo players as they are the majority numbers in the game and you reward killers for playing against SWFs. Give killers more blood points and/or even make it easier to Pip if there are groups in their lobby.

    That is what I would do if I were them anyway.

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270
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    Honestly at this point maybe they should. Do it how other games do - balance it around the whole team communicating with each other and make it clear that while you don't have to join in (I probably wouldn't) you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you don't. Throw in ping systems and the like. It won't be the most atmospheric thing ever but there's no perfect solution really tbh

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Kindred already gets ignored, when you equip it. Making it basekit wouldn´t change much in that regard.

    Action icons is just the same as the icons survivors get, when they are affected by anything. Which already gives them more information, like that they are nearby a totem when Undying is active. Or that they are inside the killers terror radius before they can actually hear the hearbeat, when the killer has Unnerving or Overwhelming presence.

  • Nirgendwohin
    Nirgendwohin Member Posts: 1,251
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    add a way to communicate between soloQ survivors. pointing, come along and morse code teabagging isn't very informative

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    A action Wheel would be nice. Where survivors could ping out certain things. But still, the most effective thing is ingame voice chat.

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108
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    A few of the main problems with solos is that swfs (and everyone else to a lesser extent) treat solos like a resource, a game with a 3 stack is basically 3v1v1, as they'll just leave the random

  • acharliet
    acharliet Member Posts: 155
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    Theres more problems with SOLO-Q I guess:

    Not info: as solo-q player u dont know if killer is chasing ur teamate if he isnt obsession, u never know if ur teamate doing gen, u never know if ur teamate is cleansing Hex Devour Hope while u r trying to find totem, u never know what perks is ur teamate using and u never know that killer is using spirit fury what made ur teamate downed. Theres lots info that swf can share, solo-q almost nothing.

    MMR/ Matchmaking: Another problem is not working matchmaking: u can have thousands of hours spent in this game but ur teamate with 40 hours cant help u much to win the game against 8k nurse player. Matchmaking in SOLO-Q is often like RNG

    Challenges: Survivors trying to finish gens but one of survivor opening chests, another one cleansing dull totems


    Guys if u check 7 year roadmap there is nothing said to improve solo-q gameplay, perhaps it ll take 1 year or more they ll do something.

  • Kaitsja
    Kaitsja Member Posts: 1,714
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    The point is to bring solos up to the level of SWF, what they choose to do with the information is another matter entirely. The difference between an equally skilled four-man SWF and Four Solos is information. By giving solos the same level of information SWFs has, you bring solos up to the same level as SWF.

    This community lacks the maturity for comms. I can't see it being anything but a bad thing.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Aaaand you also buff SWF with that information. Just like the little icons we currently have do right now.

  • D3spair
    D3spair Member Posts: 713
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    I can see entitled survivors throwing out N words on people not doing Gens or People not bodyblocking for them lol.

  • NerfedFreddy
    NerfedFreddy Member Posts: 394
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    Because overwhelming majority of playerbase are solos/duos/swf casuals and it's not competitive game that's why it should be balanced around those players having good time in cool horror game

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233
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    So this is only my opinion, but I am a solo survivor main (have been for awhile now even though when the game first released I was a killer main)

    Killer shouldn't be touched.

    Solo survivor can be buffed, but only slightly. At most a little information to help efficiency, from my experience it's not so much the lack of info that kills my solo Q experience but rather bad players who shouldn't be matched with me in the first place, people farming challenges or DCs.

    Swf should be nerfed slightly, people need to stop making up excuses and using the phrase "punishing me for playing with friends" when in reality it's just game balancing for the benefits you get. Even a small 1% per person in swf as a debuff so 1,2,3% for a 2,3,4man swf.

    You cant just bring up one side enough because you cant add certain things swf have without changing major aspects of the game so its smarter to bring swf down a TINY amount and bring solo up abit

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Okay, current situation. Survivors get a little icon when they are affected by XXX. Helps the solo but also the SWF, since they can tell their teammates, that XXX is in play, even before the other teammates come into contact with that perk.

    So no, it doesn´t provide zero benefit to SWF.

  • UnknownKiller
    UnknownKiller Member Posts: 3,024
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    No reward gonna make me stand 4 toxic clicky clicky or gen rushed to oblivion.

  • fogdonkey
    fogdonkey Member Posts: 1,567
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    For sure it helps SWF as well, but helps a lot more the solos, so as a result it is reducing the gap between swf and solos.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611
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    The solo / swf gap should have been reduced before looking at overall survivor/killer balance in my opinion, because as of right now the better killers are against SWF the more miserable solo q is, and if solo q was alright it'd meant killers would be getting stomped by any average SWF that's not memeing around.

    I believe buffing or nerfing killers is irrelevant to the discussion of solo q / SWF gap considering you could bring them together by buffing solo q or nerfing SWF, which would impact the killer/survivor balance differently.

    Also, I think people underestimate how many people play solo q. Last time we got statistics about it solo q made up for a little over half the survivor playerbase, and the least popular set up was 4 ppl SWF, meaning you'd get at least 1 solo survivor in the vast majority of games. I have no doubt the solo q numbers have since gone down, but the only scenarios where there isn't any solo player involved stay the least popular one (4SWF) and the 2x2SWF.

  • Katzengott
    Katzengott Member Posts: 1,205
    edited July 2022
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    Instead of 5 secs. BT, give us basekit Kindred and BBQ. Would be much healthier for both sides.

    And basekit Corrupt on top to compansate SWFs efficiency and coordination. (30 secs. for 2, 60 secs. for 3, 120 secs. for 4)

    Simple fix, won't happen. /=

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,808
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    Solo needs to be be buffed, but should absolutely not be buffed to the level of SWF (a comms SWF is the strongest thing in the game).

    Most of the basic info buffs that have been suggested (activity icons, chat wheel, etc.) would add info to solo that SWF already has, so they wouldn't really make SWF any stronger than it already is, so I don't see a downside there. Nothing earth shattering, just some balance.

    Why buff solo? Because solo is the weakest part of the game, but solo queue survs also comprise the biggest single segment of the DBD player base.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Because, and i´ve said this already several times. Every single attempt to buff solo queue to SWF information levels has also buffed SWF.

    I´m not against buffing solos. I´m against buffing SWF.

    Give us ingame voice chat, and i´m the happiest solo survivor you´ll find on this planet. But don´t add more hud elements that also benefit SWF.

    Or lets say it differently, i wouldn´t be opposed to additional hud information IF that information was for solo queue only, while SWF don´t get access to that.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    Right now playing killer is comfortable without slowdown perks. You can focus on info instead of gens because you already get extra minute of slowdown.

    But I played survivor a lot recently to do achievements and challenges and killers sometimes still focused on gen slowdown in their builds. This is kind of overkill. I escaped only once since update and it was a beginner Huntress with frosty eyes.

    I don't know if survivors adapt or quit. Judging by queue times they switched to killer role.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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  • _VTK_
    _VTK_ Member Posts: 383
    edited July 2022
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    As a solo survivor I don't necessarily want killers to get nerfed, I want solo to get buffed, as close to SWF level as possible.

    Here's the theory: SWF on comms have more information than soloQ. If DEVs implement new HUD icons which would show who is being chased, who hears the heartbeat, who is working on a gen, who is healing, then solo survivors will have access to almost the same information that SWF can share on comms. But it will also give some additional information to SWF, that's ok though, since SoloQ will profit from it MUCH more than SWF, the main point is we closing the gap between solo and SWF. HUD icons is a different approach than comms and it's inevitable. If survivors end up being too powerful after that, DEVs can buff Killers or nerf survivors in general.

    There's simply no better way to do it. Most of the players don't want a proximity chat and I agree with that, it would change DBD too much. HUD icons on the other hand fit naturally into the game.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,546
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    There are none as long as SWF is as game breaking as it is. Balancing for that will and has made it to where bad survivors can beat good killers. In order to win, killers have to be good on gens and chases, whereas survivors only have to be good on one.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,972
    edited July 2022
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    Nobody wants to be forced to chat to strangers, especially if they don't even speak their language. This might be a solution in the US, it's a complete non-solution anywhere else in the world.

    Increasing survivors base info is something that would buff solos but not SWF. The info is superfluous to voice chat, so it doesn't provide them with any benefits.

    "Every attempt to buff solo queue to SWF information levels has also buffed SWF"? Name one instance. They haven't tried to buff survivor information yet.

    No it's not. Every buff to survivor information also closes the gap. Maybe not as significantly as forced voice chat would, but it's a much more realistic and reasonable solution.

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270
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    Every online game has a community too immature for comms. I don't particularly want a 12 year old nea screaming homophobic slurs into the mic after she messes up her third CJ of the match either. But something has to be does to try and equalise solo/swf communication.

    The other strength of swf, "filtering out potatoes" as I think @Aven_Fallen called it, just needs more consistent matchmaking to replicate which may never happen (it's pretty consistent for me but not for a lot of soloQers)

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    I´ve already posted several times where the information for solo queue, also helped SWF. In this very thread.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Go ahead, give survivors this information.

    But it will still not be enough to bring solos to SWF information levels.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,972
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    And I've just read every single one of your posts in this thread. You haven't, that's a blatant lie.

    The only thing you said was a hypothetical non sequitur. "Giving survivors an icon for XXX would also benefit SWF" yet you fail to explain how giving SWF information they already have via voice comms benefits them....

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,972
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    They don't need to be at the same level, they just need to be closer.

    You don't need to cure cancer in order to research new and improved cancer treatments.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,972
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    That's the exact post I'm referring to. That's not a case where BHVR added information that buffed SWF. It's a hypothetical situation you made up, and came to a conclusion that doesn't follow the logic provided.

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437
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    DBD is closer to being a balanced game when you don't know what to do at any given moment as a survivor. Being able to talk to the other survivors is just a ridiculous advantage. You know how everyone is feeling upset that solo survivor is too weak right now? We would need another round of killer buffs to counteract this level of information being given out "for free".


    I played in a SWF tongiht and out of like 25-30 games I think I de pipped either once or twice. The majority of the other games were me getting a pip. A few of the games were just a safety. There were at least 5 games where I got a double pip. One of the players started in January of this year and the other was "new".

  • kaoraku
    kaoraku Member Posts: 247
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    Yeah. And other people said otherwise. So? Why do you think only your opinion is the alpha and the omega? Yeah, voice would be grate for solos for information. But as others said, they want to enjoy the game without forced to listening ragekids if they want info from them.

    We understand, YOU want coms. But others don't. And as somebody said - you still didn't say anything about how information icons would benefit more SWF teams when they are already on comms and they say what happens...

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
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    Just expressed my opinion. Just as you and everyone else expressed their opinion. Never claimed that mine is the alpha or omega. Or, unlike others did, have claimed that their opinion is wrong.

    Please don´t take it personally, when someone has a different opinion that yours.

  • fogdonkey
    fogdonkey Member Posts: 1,567
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    They could add a language selector where you could add which languages can you speak. Then the matchmaking would create matches where there is a common language.

    Also you don't need to tell poems, just a few phrases is enough: killer is chasing me, gen almost done, going for save... So you don't need to be that good speaker.

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
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    None, they just should balance solo q. (which is basically not possible tbh)

  • _VTK_
    _VTK_ Member Posts: 383
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    You want to split the matchmaking? It would make que times longer and there will be less teammates of appropriate MMR level available for everyone.

    And if someone refuses to speak or has no headset it would defeat the purpose of such soloQ "buff". There's no need to make it so complicated. No thanks

  • ClumsyTrapper
    ClumsyTrapper Member Posts: 544
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    I wish items would get nerfed so survivor base kit could get buffed to balance it out. Just basic info would make solo Que so much better

  • kaoraku
    kaoraku Member Posts: 247
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    I didn't take it personally. But it is really obvious that you think about what you say (write) is written in stone without anything, just cause you wrote it. All your argument is that you keep repeating that icons would give benefit for SWF, and the game needs voice. And when people say something whay it is not true, then you just say it again just cause "i already posted several times".

    BHVR already said, that they want give action icons to show what everybody doing for info. So i really do not understand why people argue about that :D

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,220
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    @Tsulan Hard talking to so many brick walls, right?

    ----

    Comms do not give info, they RELAY or SPREAD info. They're also prone to human error or delay as the survs still need to decide if they want to spread the info they gathered. There are only a few mechanics that actually do what comms do, without giving more.

    UI-gimmicks like the action icons are instaneous, permanently available to survivors, if implemented, Auras would be gamebreaking, as they'd be even more precise.

    And as for the "it doesnt buff SWF"-crowd. "Solo" and "SWF" are still mechanically both just "Survivor", the devs wont just suddenly start adding differences. "Survivor + [Free info mechanics]" will still be weaker than "( Survivor + [Free info mechanics] ) x Comms". Best Case Scenario? All those Info mechanics just MOVE the Solo-SWF-gap upwards. Worst Case: The gap widens even more.