When is the balance fix?
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You’re right too about the short term changes. Even just fixing the matchmaking incentive as fast as possible would be good.
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It will never happen killer queues have been long for months before update when it was supposedly "unplayable", if anything you always need 4 survivor for 1 killer I'd stop nerfing solo Q and spitting on casual/newer players if I was them
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The 5 seconds of Endurance is better than nothing. It combines well with BT or OtR. I agree on giving DS its 5 seconds back. Will probably happen in a future update, since DS stun time has gone up and down over the years.
Thana isn´t as problematic as everyone claims. Its only useful on Legion and Plague.
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They usually like to sit thing for a couple of months so the players can get used to the balance
There might be a hotfix but those are for... wel hotfixes
Don't expect any nerfs outside of bugfixes
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Im very happy that with a single hit off hook. I can delete Base BT + BT buffed + OTR buffed.
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I actually agree. The "base BT" should be a different status, thats not affected by BT or OtR. Stacking those on the PTB was just insane. Not stacking them also is counterproductive. But giving it a different status effect, that protects from a instant down sounds like a good middle way.
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Thana may not be that significant, but it's buff was unnecessary. It's created an issue that's mostly psychological, and could have been avoided entirely if it was nerfed to 4% instead of being buffed to 5.5%. That would still be an effective slowdown (on par with Gift of Pain) considering the increase to gen times compounding its effect.
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Better be soon because if they don't, killer vs killer gamemode will become a reality.
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Exactly this. Does everyone remember when Trickster was released, and BHVR said we would have to wait months for a rebalance, because we need to let it sit for a while? And we're still waiting for a Sadako balance fix, and we've been letting that sit for over a full chapter. This is the same energy BHVR should take with the giant rebalance patch. Let it sit for at least half a year.
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Oh yes, but reading the "expectations" took me by surprise.
I was expecting a full meltdown. I had my nuke-proof sunglasses on already 😅.
Post edited by drsoontm on0 -
5 seconds are better than nothing, but not much. Definitely not enough for all the buffs killers got. Survivors need more help against camping and tunneling at base, not just with perks, because then they are forced to use those perks.
The entire point of this patch was to have more perk variety, and for both sides to not be dependent on certain perks anymore. For survivor this changed not at all. And for killers, while they are less dependent on slowdown perks, the best builds are still just multiple slowdown perks stacked, because some of the slowdown perks are still too strong at the moment, now with the gen times being increased to 90 seconds.
I do think at the moment the game's balance is problematic. Tunneling needs to be nerfed more, camping needs to be nerfed, and certain slowdown perks also need to be nerfed. Then maybe we will see more balanced queue times again. I think the current killer queue times speak for themselves.
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The patch wanted to achieve 3 things:
- grind reduction = fail
- break up the meta = success
- increase kill rates = success
Now what we do with this patch, well survivor used to be the chill role and has become more challenging. Many people didn´t like that, so they started to ruin the game for everyone else out of spite. What we will end up with? Honestly, no idea. Skilled players have no issue as solo survivors. But will the not so skilled ones buckle up and try harder or will they continue to ruin the game for themselves and everyone else?
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Lmao not everyone has the time to put into the game to become "skilled" at it. The game needs to be balanced for less experienced players as well.
And I seriously doubt everyone who complains about solo queue is simply not "skilled". There are simply aspects of this game that are pretty problematic at the moment. I've already listed them.
I also don't really see how the meta was broken up in a significant way. Former meta slowdown perks were just swapped with other slowdown perks, and survivors now use Off the Record instead of DS. The meta was shaken up a bit, but not enough in my opinion.
Again, the killer queue times speak for themselves. The devs will need to help out survivors now, and not only because they are catering to the "not so skilled" survivor players. Otherwise you could just as well make the argument that this patch catered to the not so skilled killer players in particular.
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Oh so now that killers have queue times, the devs need to help out survivors. But when survivors had a queue of the same length, there wasn´t an issue...
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Why is it a problem if killers have a longer queue anyway, isn't that the ideal scenario? It means there are a healthy amount of killers to use for matchmaking. It's bad when the majority (survivors) have to wait longer in queue because there aren't enough killers.
Streamers have a biased interest in keeping their queue times low, but survivor queues should be faster than the killer's. The only reason to be alarmed is if the survivor numbers are dropping.
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Killer vs 4 devs mode
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Come on man, I know you are fanatical about protecting killers but calling this patch a success when a large number of the majority of the player base (survivors) are unhappy with the changes is a stretch even for you.
This patch is the most complained about I have ever seen and I have been playing DBD since November 2018.
No matter what you think, you ALSO can see the response to the patch and it is bad, just admit it.
You like the patch, you like killers to be in control and powerful, that's fine and I accept that, but calling a patch a success when it is strongly despised by a large amount of the player base is just wrong.
This is a PR disaster comparable with the rings of power on amazon prime (with smaller numbers obviously)
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The issue why survivors are unhappy is mainly other survivors. That sabotage the game in the hope that the devs roll the patch back. Ruining the game for everyone.
Lets say for a second, that the devs actually give in. That they roll the patch back. That killers get the short end of the staff once again, like so many times. What do you think, how killer players would react?
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My how the turntables.... for the last several years that was the killer experience, and they were told to stop being such dramatic crybabies.
Iiiiiiinteresting.
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Should you really be punishing a playstyle?
If they implement a way to punish camping/tunneling can we get a way to punish bully survivor squads who just spend the game head on stunning killers, constant letting the killer pull them out of lockers to be insta saved.
So fed up with survivors moaning about tunneling and camping. Just ######### on hook and go next if the killer is being toxic like that. As a killer if i get a group of toxic survivors there is nothing i can do to leave the match and I have to suffer through the game for as long as the survivors want to hold me there for. I have had games go on for 30mins plus because the survivors just chain stunned if i tried to kill them and then didnt do gens for so long.
Bottom line. Grow up and learn to counter tunneling. See a team mate getting tunneled. Go take hits and help out. slam gens and move on.
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Honestly if they did that I think that would be the straw that broke the camel's back for most of the killer players and then we might actually see the pulse of DbD start to slow down. This patch showed that the Devs actually care a bit about both sides and gained some much need trust with them....if they rolled it back then that trust would be shattered beyond repair for many.
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Balance fix has been deployed, hf.
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You are trying to reduce the problem to other survivors being bad, that's not what is happening. The patch was made under the assumption that by making gens slower and chases faster killers would play easier builds and avoid camping, tunneling and slowdowns, this did NOT happen.
A lot of people are GENUINELY disliking the patch and this is a problem. You cannot ignore the response the patch is having, some could be cry babies fine, but not everyone, and I have never seen such a response in this forum where killers supporters, like you, are very vocal.
A solution needs to be found, this patch is not a solution when the majority is annoyed so something needs to give.
From a business perspective, it makes more sense to appease your larger player base that is now, largely, very unhappy.
I am 100% sure the devs are panicking and looking into a solution right this moment because they were not expecting this kind of response
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Thats not whats happening? Turn on any streamer and count how often survivors suicide on first hook. You´ll be surprised how many it is. Like literally every single streamer is complaining about this. So it isn´t just a couple of people that sabotage the game.
DbD has been stressful for killers since the MMR started. When killers complained, they got just a "git gud" or "just take 4 slowdowns for a ez win" as response. Now survivors are feeling the same stress killers did.
Appease the larger player base? Devs have done nothing else for years. Killers always got the short end of the stick and now, that survivors received for once the short end, they demand changes at gun point?
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Yes, the survivors that sabotage the game aren´t realizing, that they are killing the game with their ridiculous demands for easy matches.
For once the game looks more balanced than ever and yet...
This could be very well a breaking point for DbD.
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I'm normally not one to be a doomsdays preacher but I have seen games go down for much less.
Entitled Survivors that thinks the game revolves around them who decided to sabotage the game for those who are adapting to the changes they hate and some I believe are the influx of campers and tunnelers too.
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I can't understand how you don't see that if the majority is unhappy with some changes that something needs to be done, then we can discuss what could be done, but as it stands this patch is NOT a success in any way shape or form like you claimed.
You may like it, and I am happy if you do, but this patch has created lots of problems, which I may try to break down for you:
There are 3 main areas of survivor gameplay:
1 gens -> this area has been made slower and more boring + combine this with slowdowns it is a disaster (net survivor experience got worse)
2 chases -> this is arguably the best area of dbd but this patch made chases faster and more hopeless for survivors. Especially mega bloodlust 3 coming quicker COMBINED with slower gens is just a death sentence (net survivor experience got worse)
3 rescuing and healing -> possibly the biggest issue. Longer gens made camping stronger, super STBFL even more. If you are camped as a survivor you are not playing the game, it is annoying and a boring experience (net survivor experience got worse)
The survivor experience got worse in every area, how is this in any way, shape or form a success?
Plus a lot of killers, not all, got meaner with more slowdowns and more camping. This was NOT intended, at least in the words of Mccote during the stream about this patch.
Something needs to be done, and even if, let's say it is all survivors not wanting to adapt like you say, fine it doesn't change the fact that survivors are finding their experience way worse and this is not a smart move.
Finally I agree with you, if they just deleted DH, nerfed endgame DS and removed MMR completely (or maybe never introduced it) the game would be better.
I think MMR was the beginning of DBD's decline and it needs to go
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The changes we got, sparked from exactly that. Killers being unhappy about having to equip 4 slowdown perks to even have a slightest chance of a normal match + and devs not being happy with kill rates, that were below expectations. Devs wanted to increase match length, which was impressivly short during the last event. Survivors made very clear, how fast they can repair gens, when they want. Now pretending that gens don´t exist, won´t change that.
Devs also wanted to increase kill rates. They probably didn´t expect how survivors prefered to ruin the game for everyone else instead of trying to adapt. But here we are. We just got a statement in another thread from mandy, that they won´t do any hastly reactions to this. So unless your plan is to suicide on the first hook for the next 3 months...
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It didn't take them 3 months to nerf CoH. (several times without hesitation).
If survivors repaired gens fast, that was due to the killer not an issue with gens.
This is a major issue now with the imbalance and health of the game, whereas CoH was negligibly good if that. It was clearly a perception but got nerfed hard anyway.
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The balance fix already happened. It was called patch 6.1.0
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Of course there was. Who said that wasn't an issue?
And as far as I remember, that happened last when Circle of Healing was released. Survivor queue times went up noticeably, and for good reason. That perk just took away too much potential map pressure from killers. But it has been nerfed twice now.
Maybe the Dead Hard validation was also a problem, but that too was improved for killers afterwards.
Not only is this just whataboutism, but it's not even right.
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If they nerf the proper aspects, which is camping, tunneling, and certain oppressive slowdown perks, then both sides should be pretty happy. There will still be people that will be unhappy, of course, especially those people that use camping and tunneling as an easy way out and don't want to lose those skillless strategies. But in general I am posititve that both sides would be happy.
What the devs shouldn't do is revert the baseline buffs killers received. Those were good. Now survivors just need help against the cheap strategies, and some slowdown perks just need to be toned down a bit, so they aren't as crazy strong.
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Could we add a nerf to Nurse’s addons and a buff/rework to OTR to that list?
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I think the biggest issues would be fixed by turning the base "BT" into a different health state. Thats not affected by a Enduring timer + increase DS to 5 seconds.
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It did take them 3 months to nerf Circle of Healing for the first time. It released in October, in patch 5.3.0, and then received it's first nerf in 5.5.0. Then it got nerfed to what it is now in 5.7.0. So it actually took them 6 months to get Circle of Healing into a relatively balanced state.
Here is the link to the perk's Wiki page, you can see for yourself:
And no, I am not considering the nerfs boon perks got in general when they released to live in patch 5.3.0. The range reduction and increased time to bless a Hex totem did not do much at all.
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Never. This is what the devs consider balance, which is obvious if you've played this game for more than like a week.
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Those changes sound good. So you mean the baseline health state could be used, and then after getting hit, survivors could use the endurance effect as well? Though even I admit that could lead to some annoying bodyblocking. I don't think bodyblocking once with an endurance health state is much of a problem, but having to go through 2 health states could definitely become a problem.
So in that case the survivor would have to lose their collision. And I am really not positive that the devs will do that.
DS absolutely needs to be 5 seconds. However, these changes all just address tunneling. Camping needs to be addressed as well. The devs should increase the hook phase duration of survivors from 60 to 70 or 75 seconds, and remove hook grabs. That would definitely help against camping killers, especially solo survivors.
Such changes would definitely help even out queue times again, but I still think some of the slowdown perks killers have would need to be looked at a bit as well. Some definitely need nerfs, especially Thanatophobia and Hex: Pentimento.
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They nerfed very quickly out of the PTB and then again within a couple of weeks. The next time they nerfed it may have been a month, but the point remains.
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One thing I've been saying for a while is they should not allow slow down perks to stack, but increase gen speeds and super buff the slow down perks since they no longer stack. They would obviously have to be careful how they do this to not make one feel required and super easy, but this is just a suggestion. It would also free up A LOT of killer builds and allow for so much more variety.
Or adversely, they could slow gen speeds even more than than above, keep slow down stacking, and absolutely gut the heck out of slow downs to be a lot more niche, which also opens up more killer perk variety, as killers no longer want to run slow down together after they're gutted, but also no longer need to with gens also being adjusted more heavily at the same time.
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Some fixes are obvious, you don't need to "monitor closely' for months to see DS is too weak or STBFL is insane, bigger balance patch takes times but I hope there's something tuesday
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Just revert the Killer basekit changes, everything else is fine.
But prob too much crying from all the killer "mains" if they do that cus they need the 34276935762945720357458ß38345983485344 training wheels for a 4k :)
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That could work, but people would still have the feeling that they always need to use one slowdown perk.
And when you say increase gen speeds, you mean increase the repair speed of survivors, or increase the time it takes to repair gens?
I think the 90 second gens need to stay. But some slowdown perks need to be nerfed, and there needs to be a cap for how much slowdown effects can stack with each other. I think 30% would be fine. And then the devs can see how that plays out.
I am not sure if having slowdown perks not work together at all is a good decision. Some people might not realise this, so BHVR would have to make sure you can only use one slowdown perk at a time. I also don't think it's a good idea to buff slowdown perks, because they will be the most impactful perks by a long shot. I just think bringing slowdown perks in line with other killer perks is the way to go. And right now, some slowdown perks together with the 90 second gen times are just way too strong.
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6.10 was the balance fix.
Alternatively, do the balance fix yourself by improving your skills and/or playing without DCs so your MMR has time to adjust.
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If it's only about points. Then survivors are in a better spot now. We have longer matches and survivors regularly gain over 30k bloodpoints per match.
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It's not a crazy terrible patch; I just don't see it that way. If anything more gets nerfed on the killer side, I at least expect a revert, not making anything weaker than it was pre-buff. On the survivor side, I'm not expecting anything to get nerfed, as we desperately need to let that meta settle and give people more time to figure stuff out. This patch didn't break the game, but whatever knee jerk reaction the devs are gonna do in response to the community backlash, that might break the game.
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Haven't seen a survivor give up and try to "ruin games" since like day 1 or 2 of the patch.
Sounds a lot like people saying "you're just no good without dead hard" in order to ignore the very real balance issues that arose from this patch.
Killer is so mind-numbingly easy right now. Only if I go for the full 12 hooks do the survivors have a chance to escape against me.
As survivor, if the killer plays a certain way, which, shockingly, they all are after this patch, escape ain't happening.
I'm glad the killer players who like easy wins are having fun, though.
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