General Discussions
General Discussions
The New Hatch Standoff
Ever been in a match where two other survivors are dead and the other survivor just got downed but the killer wants his 4k so badly he waits out the 4 minute timer? Isn't it so much fun playing hide and seek with no realistic expectation of doing anything meaningful for 4 minutes as you wait for a bleed out?
Downed survivors should receive the option after to immediately bleed out if there have been 1 or fewer survivors in either the healthy or injured states for 15 seconds. Would be a nice quality of life change to discourage slugging and allow survivors to avoid being held hostage by the killer.
Comments
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Remove the hatch, problem solved.
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My favorite is when they finally decide to pick up the survivor after having left them slugged for almost 4 minutes, letting them wiggle off, and having that survivor point you out. If that doesn't make you want to boil yourself alive idk what will.
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Why not remove exit gates too?
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Just this, who the heck needs a literal pity escape which doesn't even have any real meaning lol
let the entity devour survivors instead of spawning hatches, problem solved.
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I'd be down for a "immediately bleed out" button too. Killers taking the game hostage this way happens way too often and only breeds frustrations and toxic behaviours.
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So...the last Survivor just dies?
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Why not just have the survivors hook themselves, problem solved. Why give them any means of escape in any situation????
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As a survivor it's infuriating.
As a killer I have no time for it. You don't really get anything for a bleed out, and I don't personally consider it a kill, so why waste more of my time? To assert some false dominance?
I almost never slug for 4K (unless the team was nasty or the other surv is literally right there) as I feel like I already won, and I don't want to be a dick about it.
Of course the caveat here is that if you just crawl to hide in a random corner or bush, it's not really on the killer any more.
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Except you can actually hook themselves as long as they are already on hook lul
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Well at that point what's the 4th survivor even needed for, just make the game a 3v1 if the 4th has no chance.
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If you remove the hatch, then you have to power the exit gates after the third kill. There has to be some avenue of escape or there's no point in playing the match out.
If you have neither you may as well just afk and go make a sandwich once the rest of your team is dead, and that doesn't seem fun for anyone.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
If the game is 3v1 third survivor will be instantly sacrificed instead of fourth, that's not how this works.
Just kill him like we do in EGC? quite simple as is.
I don't think it's unfair at all when generators haven't done and you are one last survivor remaining.
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The hatch standoff I usually experience is that, after one survivor dies, the other two go into hiding and I'm left deciding whether to attempt gens or make noise and get the killer to kill me so I can play a match with teammates rather than be held hostage in an unwinnable situation. I usually choose to work on a gen until the killer finds me, then I suicide. Then the killer gets to spend the next god only knows how long stuck in a match where they're diligently patrolling the very gens the remaining survivors are avoiding. Sometimes I spectate a little out of curiosity, and my god it looks so freaking boring I could cry.
Oh... so then it should be a 2v1... no, wait, then the 2nd survivor would be auto-sacrificed. So I guess what the game needs to be is a 1v1?
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It goes like this: 4, 3, 2, and 0.
Is it that difficult to understand? it's literally same as how it works for now, except no one needs to waste their time with slug/hide'n'seek and such.
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... I can't believe you're taking what I said seriously.
Anyway, what's the point of playing survivor at all if bad MMR means you're destined to die at the end. I can't keep bad teammates safe, I can't all by myself make sure someone else survives to keep myself alive. At that point, take out the exit gate and the goal of escaping and have it be a timed match where the survivors try to stay alive until the end or something.
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So what exactly are we proposing here, right after the third surv dies, the EGC starts and there's no way out?
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New survivor players that dont know whats going on, and can have a dopamine shot with a mechanism that let them think they've accomplished something.
We've all been there.
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What's even worse is when the Killer finds the Hatch first and they just stand there without closing it until the last Survivor shows. I've seen this go on for 30 minutes. Gotta secure that 4k.
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Remove egc. When 5 gens are done everyone escapes
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Oh yeah lul
And I don't agree with that at all, for me hatch escapes aren't any different than dying, yeah I could hide till others die or whatever but it's extremely boring and stupid mechanics that encourage people to actively fight teammates, if matchmaking is the problem, fix it.
Not even EGC, just outright kill it.
Actually yes, I hate it when survivors wait in gates for 110 seconds for literally no reason, it'd be much better for game flow if we remove it.
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Sure why not, 90% of the time endgame is a loss for the killer anyway and survivors love to sit around at the gates wasting even more time.
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If I'm slugged and camped, I do hope the other survivor is good at hide and seek. I'll spin around, take the killer on a walk to random places where my teammate isn't, or tab out and watch a video until I'm bled out. If the killer resorts to this, I do hope my teammate will find hatch.
Any anger I have is on the killer, because they're the one enforcing this. Not the teammate who knows coming to raise me is suicide.
And when I play killer, I actually love giving hatch. Hatch is a good mechanic, not because it makes survivors feel accomplished, but because it's also a way to show respect and appreciation for the people you play with. Just like opening the door as killer is rarely a strategic thing, yet I do it pretty often when cute survivors made the game friendly.
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Hatch is only good when no one try hard or toxic enough to abuse it, which can't really happen in this game.
Basically hatches aren't really appropriate for game like this.
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Good lord, this version of DBD sounds horribly boring, unfair, and anti-climactic. I could get onboard with killing the hatch, powering the gens and starting EGC after the third kill, but nothing beyond that.
"if matchmaking is the problem, fix it"
LMFAO, how likely do you think that is, after all we've seen? Assessing skill and matchmaking accordingly in this game at any point is unlikely in the extreme, and as such some people are going to get screwed by it, and they should have some avenue of escape.
And if all the gens being done ends the game and everyone escapes, what kind of meta do you think that would lead to? The sort of gen slowdown meta we see now would pale in comparison. BHVR would have to buff slowdown to levels barely imagined to make it fair, and I don't think anyone wants that.
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Basically game won't change in any way except we wastes less time through completely unneeded mechanics for balance standpoint.
If one match with bad teammates, they deserve to lose, it's a team based game.
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Those points have some validity, but I for one enjoy the frenzy of a good EGC (on both sides), and would not sacrifice it to avoid the occasional slug/bleed fests or hide-a-thons.
I also don't think there is comprehensively good solution to any of it, so a lesser of evils kind of deal for me.
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Quite the novel concept, right? Just for a different perspective, the hatch is there so that survivors keep a little bit of hope, even if they can't realistically win anymore and aren't just slaughtered, which is fine. Some hatch chases are fun, too, but most often its just one person who spawns near the hatch and they either jump in or close it. Real deadly chases to the hatch are rather rare.
But if a killer loses hope, because they were pitted against a seal team and they only got 2 hooks on different survivors, would anyone ok with The Entity devouring a random survivor just so that the killer got a pitty kill? That would be ludicrous!
I understand the reasoning behind the hatch, but its pretty one sided. Still, its better then the alternative, ie just slaughtering a single survivor who couldn't conceivable finish 2+ gens themselves or preventing a game to devolve into a 40min hide and seek.
EDIT: also, giving hatch is one of the most fun and interactive activities in the game that directly speak to the other person and not just their in game avatar. I love giving hatch if the other player wasn't obnoxious and BMed me at every opportunity, buy I usually want to assert dominance and show that I could have easily won, be it downing the last survivor and then turning in a circle to let them wriggle off or cornering them somewhere and having them kneel to show that they lost but ask for mercy.
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Wait isn't that what they are doing with the new Mori system....the last survivor that gets downed is automatically Moried in a special area.....
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EGC is there because survivors would open the gates and just wait tell the killer chased them out even if it ment waiting 5 minutes after the gate were open.
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There must be a way for the last Survivor to escape if their team was defeated. I find it inconceivable to imagine DBD without its "Black Lock".
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Yeah and removing EGC and replacing it with insta escape can achieve same thing.
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... You do realise that the "well, there's still hatch" is essentially what's keeping survivors in the game once exit gates are, realistically, out of the question (aka once a survivor is out of the game before at least 3 gens have popped)?
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I am with you here. I was just engaging in a what-if scenario.
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I am happy to read that :)
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Except there won't be a hatch unless killers intentionally allows them to have one.
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Why would you award bad play with a insta escape? If your the last survivor and all the gens aren't done you're team has played bad or the killer has done really well why would you reward the losing side with a free escape?
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Huh? it only works in conjunction with removing hatches.
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I wouldn't go so far as saying intentionally have it; sure, killers have the advantage when it comes to finding the hatch first but you do have a chance as survivor. It's really where the slug to keep hatch from even spawning comes into play - and while it has been a thing before it has been the default in the recent past. Which, imo, might be one of the many aspects that makes survivors throw very early in the game atm. Just my personal take tho.
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I think a case could be made to not spawn the hatch once a survivor exited the exit gates, as by that time everyone could just leave.... but this is exactly how I got one of my "escape through the hatch" tome challenges done, ie waiting inside the trial grounds while everyone else escaped.
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I'm saying, since slug for 4k has been here all the time, there won't be a hatch unless killers intentionally allows survivors to have one.
And I'm mostly sure that's not the reason why survivors throw the game, because escaping through hatch is literally nothing, majority will know it.
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My question still stands why would you give the losing side a free escape?
I personally have no problem with the hatch at least they have to find it and the killer has a chance to shut it.
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But the problem is not the hatch, it's that toxic behaviours are unchecked and even rewarded (on the killer's side, at least).
Some people are being toxic with flashlights, but we should not remove flashlights from the game just because a couple of survivors are being d*cks with them. Same with the crouch button.
Hatches are fine.
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whenever this happens, i'll either force a chase so the wait isn't boring, or i'll scout out the exit gates and wait near one. If the killer is slugging for the 4k, they're probably going to make a beeline through all the potential hatch spawn locations, and search them while slugging in case they suspect you're doing the same. Then they give up on it and/or the slug bleeds out, and they immediately return to patroling hatch locations. Its a matter of luck whether you'll have enough time and/or a position to 20% the gate (or even just yolo it) but it still retains a decent chance of escape. As a bonus its the gate and not the hatch so its considered a win rather than a draw :)
Of course, it wont take long for someone to complain "thats not a guaranteed escape" or something like that, but i prefer hedging my bets and actually taking a productive stance.
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