A survivor main's take on the recent patch
We can see a lot of survivors complaining about the uptick and in camping and tunneling going on in the recent patch. Byut all you hear about in this forum are the vocal minority that wanted free games and didn't want a cahllenge like most of us do. They wanted to be cocky and bully a killer that they knew he couldn't fight back because the power roles were inverted. They wanted to have the illusion of skill by pressing E (or whatever key they had mapped DH as) and be able to jump into a locker after hook and be literally immune for 60 seconds.
But most of us are not like that. We welcome challenge and not only expect, but want to have to earn our escapes. We are not entitled to free 4 escapes and know that sometimes we have to leave teammates behind because unhooking them is just too risky.
That said, while tunneling isn't bad per se (chases are the most fun part of the game and tunneling is just giving us us the opportunity to be on chases more), camping really went up and that is NOT ok. It's not fun for the killers to just stare at us hooked either.
The problem with the patch is not that the killers were buffed (we true survivor mains are very glad for that), the problem was that killers were nerfed in ways that they should not have beenn
For instance, Pop was gutted. Pop was a wonderful perk that incentivized killers to go for hooks and and then leave the hook for that sweet 20% regression. It was a better anti-camping perk than DS ever was.
Then Ruin was gutted. Ruin was also a good perk for us survivors because it forced the killer to move around and pressure us out of gens. If he stayed to camp a hook, then he would get a grand total of 0 (zero) value out of Ruin.
BBQ was gutted. BBQ was also an anti camping perk because it incentivezed killers to go look for other survivors far away.
And finally Pain Resonance. The notification was absolutely crucial to incentivize the killer to leave the hook and go pressure said gen, specially coupled with Dead Man's Switch.
As you can see the trouble we survivors are having is directly correlated with the devs nerfing killers all the wrong ways. They listed to the fake posers who simply wanted killers to be weaker all across the board instead of listening to us real survivor mains who wanted a fair challenge. Now it's their opportunity to finally listen to us survivor mains and buff those perks I mentioned.
Comments
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Run Surveillance with Pain Resonance. You get the information and the buffed regression. Pop's still good. BBQ wasn't gutted. BBQ's is the closest thing a killer has to a 2v1 in football or a fast break in basketball; you have a survivor hooked, a survivor going for the unhook, and a survivor on gens to chase. BBQ allows the momentum to shift in the killer's favor. I'm telling you things you already know, though. You're not a survivor main. You're a killer main that needs to have the center of attention, constantly. It's killing the game.
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When BBQ had bonus BP attached, it was a massive incentive to run it as an intel perk. Without the BP bonus, most people dropped it since only mobile killers can make good use of the intel it provides.
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I have to say it's very instulting that you think you're entitled for me to prove I'm a survivor main to you. I play survivor exclusevely, I'm just not entitled and think I deser a four man escape every game and can actually work out how the game works. When the killers are disincentivezed to leave the hook, they don't. Simple as. BBQ and Pop were gutted, which is why their usage fell to nearly zero after the nerfs. And even if they werent gutted, they certainly were nerfed, when they should have been buffed instead if anything. They are healthy perks which promoted healthy gamestyles. So why nerf them?
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Just say you want even more Killer buffs and go. No matter how many incentives you add for Killers not to tunnel and camp, they will still do it because its a braindead way to secure a 4k or just to be dicks.
Aaaaand here we go yet again, Nowhere do i see complaints about DH from Survivor players. Killers are just so obsessed with bringing this up whenever a Survivor player expresses their opinion about the update.
Judging by your previous posts i already knew this was gonna be a heavily killer biased take anyway and that you're probably not even a Survivor Main
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The fact that you said "it's not fun for killers to stare at hook either." Tells me that you're either a camper or fundamentally don't understand how to play. There has never been and still isn't an instance where camping is mandated. Ever. If survivors swarm hook instead of camping just down them and hook them. They'll get their friend off but in the process they'll also be hooked. If someone is camping they are doing it because THEY WANT TO. There is no other reason to do it.
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You're a survivor main who thinks Killers got nerfed this patch and this is now your 3rd thread where you open claiming to be a survivor main and wanting killer perks to be buffed further.
"And finally Pain Resonance. The notification was absolutely crucial to incentivize the killer to leave the hook and go pressure said gen, specially coupled with Dead Man's Switch."
No it wasn't. Tinkerer has arguably always been more of a incentive for killers to leave the hook. PR & DMS took no effort and didn't even require the killer to leave the hook area at all since it automatically locked the gen for them.
Post edited by EQWashu on7 -
Ok a few things as I'm an actual survivor main.
I'm mostly fine with the patch. If your in a swf nothing seems to be to major in difference.l from before accept that gens take longer. Im glad killers got buffed if I'm being honest. However solo definitely was screwed over the most by this patch and should have gotten something
I'm also skeptical of the many claims people are making about Dead Hard. Were the people who uses it and "relied" on it really no skill survivors. Because from what I have seen and experienced I seen mostly good survivors get use out of it. And bad players barely get use out of it by dead harding into a wall or our in the open where it will do nothing. I think people were more frustrated by thr good players who used it then the bad players since I have seen the opposite of what people claim to be true. I could be wrong but I'm not sure.
Im extremely annoyed this patch undeniably buffed camping and tunneling when it was supposed to reduce it. I bought into the lie that killers camped and tunneled because gens were too fast. But now that things have been slowed down with an increase in gen times and new slowdown perks they continued to do so. And survivors didn't adequately get things that addressed the issue of camping and tunneling. A 5 second bt can easily be waited out and survivors are still relegated to use perks to counter it. It's even more annoying that ds was nerfed to near uselessness.
All in all everything is mostly fine but could be better.
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I'm going to borrow this meme as it's so relevant if you don't mind
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BBQ is still good as it still does it's job and it is a good information perk overall. The thing is that normally you won't be running more than 1 information perk per game, so you probably won't choose BBQ.
The only two killers perks who got butchered were Pop Goes the Weasel, Ruin and Dead Man's Switch (although it wasn't nerfed directly, the nerf to Pain Resonance made it very weak). But Ruin was already garbage before the patch, so that didn't change much tbh.
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You're not a survivor main "FrostyEyesSusie". Your post history shows otherwise.
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Mobility matters even less when gens take 10 seconds longer to complete. I play a lot of Deathslinger and Huntress, BBQ is a strong perk on them.
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I see where you are coming from, and I agree with you in some of your comments promoting a healthy playstyle for killer. I do think their nerf was warranted though, PR and Pop, BBQ too with the more upcoming changes. They did what they were designed to do, just a little too well.
Starting to feel that all % regression should be scaled on progress and not total, like how pop is now. Push pop back to 25% of current progress, PR 15% current progress and add the scream back, change DMS to activate 5 seconds after hook with duration of 40 seconds. I think Than needs a nerf to 4.5% as well.
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Of course haha, feel free to.
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You might be a troll within a troll. Regardless, solo survivor has gotten the short end of the stick again.
BBQ's a good perk. Pop's strong. If they're not used as much, it's because Overcharge, COB, Thana, and Eruption are META.
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You aren't even paying attention to the OP and need to calm down. BBQ being gutted- OP directly stated that he was reffering to making killer hook EVERYONE, because the BP bonus was removed. And op is right prior to this patch as killer i would want my four stacks for points. Now i dont even RUN bbq. its still a great perk but without the BP im trying other perks, and i also have no incentive to spread my hooks around. Everything the OP said is true. Even OTZ has pointed out a lot of that. Currently killers have regression perks that do not encourage them to patrol.
Yes there are perks that CAN let them see gens. But they are not as good as the prior ones. You are just a salty survivor main angry that another survivor main called you out. Calm down and be honest with yourself for ten seconds.
Not to mention you didn't even counter all the points. All you said was "run an EXTRA perk to make pain resonance as good as it used to be." That is a decent combo sure. But first of all telling OP to add another perk to fix the nerf on one is asinine. Secondly you didn't address a single other point he made. You immediately resorted to insulting OP even though they made a tactful and well constructed argument. You shouldn't even be in this discussion with your attitude or lack of comprehension skills.
100% all of the nerfed killer perks encouraged the killer to patrol and chase different people. 100% killer still has strong regression. But EVERY survivor main on this forum is complaining about how camping bubba can use the current perks to block gens without leaving, now here someone is elaborating on that and you insult them.
tl;dr good job op. Ignore this guy.
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Good to see you still having bad takes
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Eh, I thought they might have been a killer main until they took a hard stance against camping. That is blatantly a survivor based attitude. No other way of looking at it, really. A killer biased player is not going to read from the survivor rulebook. Sorry, but that is definitely exclusive to survivor mains. #facts
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A perk cannot be both gutted and still great. I stopped reading at that point.
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Okay FrostyEyesSusie, just because you do all your survivor dailies doesn’t mean you main survivor.
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BBQ wasn't gutted? It was nerfed, and now killers have no reason to run it anymore, specially since there are other perks that do what it does better. The main reason people ran BBQ was the BP bonus. We all know that, no killer ran it with because they just loved to go look for survivors far away from the hook. Specially if the killer in question didn't have the mobility to make use of the info. It was a good perk for killers to run though, because it incentivized a healthy playstyle. There was zero reason to nerf it, if anything it should be buffed.
Saying Pop or PR is still good... maybe, lets assume for sake of argument that's true. But they are now strickly worse than the current meta regression perks. Why run Pop and have to leave the hook in a hurry when you can run Overcharge and get value out of it constantly? Pop was a healthy perk, Overcharge considerably less so. Yet the devs nerfed Pop and buffed Overcharge, and you're defending that decision? Why? Who benefits from Overcharge overtaking Pop?
Right on the money.
I know you're eager to post your cute meme and all, but it has nothing to do with anything I said. Please pay attention if you want to contribute to the discussion.
This is not what I said at all. I said that the devs quite deliberately removed the perks that incentivized killers to leave hooks and roam about a lot, and substituted them for perks that encouraged or synergized with camping, and as a result camping increased. Cause and consequence is all, and in order to combat camping they need to buff said healthy perks.
I used t o main killer, now I main survivor. Why do you have to take this weird Us vs Them attitude instead of addressing my arguments objectively?
As for your PR remark, you could achieve the same result by simply not pushing the survivor away but keeping the notification so that the killer would have to leave the hook and physically push the survivor out of the gen, no? Why remove the notification and thereby remove the very incentive to move away? Now killers hook someone and trigger the regression, but they have no idea of which gen to go to. So why would they leave the hook? No incentive. See what I mean?
Please try and address my arguments instead of trying to attack my credibility.
If you nerf killers, you'll just encourage more camping and tunneling because they will feel like they need to do that in order to win. Regardless of how accurate that may be, it's a fact. So instead of nerfing killers, they should be buffing them the right ways and not deliberately nerfing the healthy perks like they did with this patch.
Thanks, it's encouraging to see someone who actually got my point.
And I see you're still utterly unable to actually make a proper argument against them. Or a proper argument at all. Reeally makes you think huh.
You're so insightful it's actually scary... I kneel!
It's the other way around, I only touch killer when I'm forced to by dailies or challenges.
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I mean, BBQ wasn't gutted, just lost it's BP gain...which is what everyone used it for, lol
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killers trying to justify that need to camp and tunnel because they don't have a perk who gives them bloodpoints
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What's there to complain about DH? it's been reworked to be a balanced perk, everyone is happy with it now
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Who is "most" of us?
You don't speak for anyone but yourself dear.
Glad you like the patch... but don't go parading that it was a "free escape" before. What a cringe statement to make honestly.
Btw I don't believe you are a survivor main.
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Everyone was warned that most killers only used BBQ for the bloodpoints. The aura effect only helps high mobility killers, and that's if the survivor doesn't counterplay it.
Glad BBQ is gone because I never have to use it again
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Most of us are the silent majority who actually wanted a fair challenge instead of playing a bully simulator with free escapes like it was before. IE the opposite of the sourpusses who are now DC'ing and suiciding on first hook to "protest" the DH and DS rightful nerfs.
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Except it actually does have a lot to do with what you said. Try harder next time Mr "Survivor Main"
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Patch was good, when you remove crutches and a bias that makes one side far too strong, the side losing their advantage will have complainers. I say that as a survivor main too (by hours played per role), the game was far too survivor sided.
Sure there will likely need to be adjustments made here and there but overall I was pleasantly surprised with BHVR, in all honesty I have little love for BHVR but credit where credit is due
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Please re-read what I said and point out how Dead Hard being nerfed has anything to do with my argument. You'll realize you're actually quite wrong.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
I hope I didn't come across as a BHVR basher, I'm also quite positively surprised at the direction BHVR took in this patch. I'm just pointing out that, with the nerfs to perks that were actually healthy and promoted good gameplay, it was a sort of "two steps forward, one step back" sort of deal and I fear BHVR might give in to the whining and go back on the good changes.
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Nah I didn't take it as BHVR bashing, I do get your point but I think this patch needed to happen and I doubt the will revert it all as many changes have been necessary for a long time. But I would expect refinements though I very much doubt they will be making any big changes in any hurry (this is a good thing).
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Many survivor mains do not share your opinions. They actually say the exact opposite.
I am not understanding how you come up with "wanted a fair challenge instead of playing bully simulator" when the killrates were not low enough to warrant that opinion. 55% killrates doesn't in any way shape of form constitute to "Bully Simulator".
So that is why I ask who this "we" is. Because it's really you, along with a handful of people if that is the case. Which again, I do not for one second believe you are a survivor main. Especially when you feel the need to add that part to the title and a name like FrostyEyesSusie (a killer's name literally being your username), like it somehow makes your stance more credible.
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It's not even just that. I literally said that no matter how much you buff these perks or whatever incentives there are, there's still going to be Killers who will camp and tunnel. It's about time the devs do something against it but making Killers even stronger isn't the answer.
You've got to be REALLY bad at the game then if you still demand buffs for Killer.
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Do killrates actually mean that much? Devs consider 2 kills a draw and the balance golden standard, but if those kills are gotten at the EGC because after 5 gens the killer managed to finally down someone, camped them and then altruism gotten the better of someone else and he died going for the save, was the game balanced? The "2 kills" crowd would say it is, but I don't think so. BHVR should instead look at the "hooks per gen done" stat rather than "total kills" as a balance measure, but I suppose that's a bit off topic for this thread.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
To BHVR they do, afterall this is why they chose to make all these buffs.
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Hence where my criticism comes from.
Post edited by EQWashu on0
