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Weekly thread for overpowered SWF
Survive with friends overpowered? thoughts?
Comments
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Not really because I’ve taken down multiple SWF groups with no problems.
It’s true they have an advantage but some people on these forums over-exaggerate about it too much that it’s annoying.12 -
The answer is yes and no.
Your ultra competitive do everything to win SWF, yes is OP. They are tactical in everything they do.
Now for the vast majority of SWF, no, not OP. There is nothing OP about a bunch of people laughing at each other as they scream about a killer chasing them
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These posts are almost daily.
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It can be extremely powerfull against killers but not overpowerd.
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Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.8 -
When optimally used, yes.
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I play SWF a lot and my team mates can sometimes be right vegetables so if you think i'm gaining an advantage from playing with them..lol then you'd be wrong.
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They should make a whole other subforum for SWF discussions, kinda tired of seeing it all the time when it's clear they won't do anything about it
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1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.8 -
@TeambossFloze said:
Survive with friends overpowered? thoughts?My thoughts?
Survive with friends overpowered!
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Its been proven to be overpowered.4
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@PinkErickaPinkEricka said:Not really because I’ve taken down multiple SWF groups with no problems.
It’s true they have an advantage but some people on these forums over-exaggerate about it too much that it’s annoying.
I have to agree, not every SWF is an absolute commando unit! I lose 1 in every 10 SWF games because most SWF just wanna hangout with their friends, ya know?
A lot of killer mains, not all, are so histrionic about SWF games that it's outrageous to see the things. Perhaps if they looked at their mistakes rather than complaining, then less players will see that SWF isn't all that bad.1 -
@Nickenzie The game was not balanced around map wide 4 person voice chat. Hence the aura perks and maps for survivors. Anyone who plays in a SWF group with voice chat is getting an advantage the killer can not counter.
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SWF is an unbalanced mechanic, I'll agree but unbalanced doesn't mean impossible. You can still destroy SWF squads, especially the altruistic ones for sure.Okapi said:@Nickenzie The game was not balanced around map wide 4 person voice chat. Hence the aura perks and maps for survivors. Anyone who plays in a SWF group with voice chat is getting an advantage the killer can not counter.
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@Nickenzie said:
SWF is an unbalanced mechanic, I'll agree but unbalanced doesn't mean impossible. You can still destroy SWF squads, especially the altruistic ones for sure.I'm going to use an allegory to explain to you how the SWF situation feels like to me. Let's say, for example, you are about to play several games of chess with few different groups of people, one after another. However, in most of those games, your opponent will have an extra Queen to start out with.
Is it impossible to win against them? No, of course not. It's not balanced, but depending on your opponent, it's certainly possible to win. In fact, you end up winning most of these games because your opponents a.) are not focused on the game at all, and instead talking and laughing with their friends on their phones about what they did that day at school/work while playing against you b.) have never played a game of chess before, and is depending on someone on the phone to talk them through it, c.) seems to be intentionally making bad, yet provocative moves just because it seems "more fun" that way to him/her.
But occasionally, you will face someone who is at your same skill level, and are focused and determined to win against you. And they do win against you, using his/her extra Queen to the maximum ability.
So because I can win most of these games, I should convince myself that I should enjoy playing this type of chess? I should force myself to believe that playing against these types of people in these types of setting is enjoyable for me because "it's challenging myself?" Is that what you would say?
I just consistently want fair games where both my opponent and I are both on a similar playing field, both focused only on the game, and both doing our best of our abilities to create a good game for both of us. But perhaps that's asking too much from Dead by Daylight.
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I wouldn't say it's a Queen they start off with but more of the lines of having an extra pawn. It's not that big of deal when your opponent has an extra pawn but it can mean the difference in getting absolutely destroyed or not in a few scenarios. Same exact thing with SWF, they have a slight advantage but when you let their advantage build up on you, at that point, it looks like they have a huge advantage on you. Just like in Chess, you cannot ignore a passed pawn forever because eventually it will reach the other side of the board and promote to a Queen. The opponent will keep moving that passed pawn while building up their advantage if you continue to ignore it. Ignoring it for too long will cause you to be mated in a few moves.knell said:@Nickenzie said:
SWF is an unbalanced mechanic, I'll agree but unbalanced doesn't mean impossible. You can still destroy SWF squads, especially the altruistic ones for sure.I'm going to use an allegory to explain to you how the SWF situation feels like to me. Let's say, for example, you are about to play several games of chess with few different groups of people, one after another. However, in most of those games, your opponent will have an extra Queen to start out with.
Is it impossible to win against them? No, of course not. It's not balanced, but depending on your opponent, it's certainly possible to win. In fact, you end up winning most of these games because your opponents a.) are not focused on the game at all, and instead talking and laughing with their friends on their phones about what they did that day at school/work while playing against you b.) have never played a game of chess before, and is depending on someone on the phone to talk them through it, c.) seems to be intentionally making bad, yet provocative moves just because it seems "more fun" that way to him/her.
But occasionally, you will face someone who is at your same skill level, and are focused and determined to win against you. And they do win against you, using his/her extra Queen to the maximum ability.
So because I can win most of these games, I should convince myself that I should enjoy playing this type of chess? I should force myself to believe that playing against these types of people in these types of setting is enjoyable for me because "it's challenging myself?" Is that what you would say?
I just consistently want fair games where both my opponent and I are both on a similar playing field, both focused only on the game, and both doing our best of our abilities to create a good game for both of us. But perhaps that's asking too much from Dead by Daylight.
However, au contraire, SWF is absolutely broken at times because you cannot prevent the advantage build up so you're forced to fight a losing battle. The only way that I can solve this is by either removing SWF although which is unlikely to happen or have separate queues. There is no other way.
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people who say SWF doesn't just completely break the game are just bad survivors
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
@Nickenzie said:
@PinkEricka
I have to agree, not every SWF is an absolute commando unit! I lose 1 in every 10 SWF games because most SWF just wanna hangout with their friends, ya know?A lot of killer mains, not all, are so histrionic about SWF games that it's outrageous to see the things. Perhaps if they looked at their mistakes rather than complaining, then less players will see that SWF isn't all that bad.
To summarize the actual game state :
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I HATE PEOPLE THAT HAVE FRIENDS BECAUSE I HAVE NONE
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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@thesuicidefox said:
I HATE PEOPLE THAT HAVE FRIENDS BECAUSE I HAVE NONE
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
are you implying that a voice com team with one person running Object of Obsession is fair and balanced?
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SWF is not op. CWF is and most SWF are CWF.0
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SWF? Evil Incarnate0
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Most of the SWF are potatoes, but very experienced players in group can win 90% of the time.
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@Nickenzie said:
Okapi said:@Nickenzie The game was not balanced around map wide 4 person voice chat. Hence the aura perks and maps for survivors. Anyone who plays in a SWF group with voice chat is getting an advantage the killer can not counter.
SWF is an unbalanced mechanic, I'll agree but unbalanced doesn't mean impossible. You can still destroy SWF squads, especially the altruistic ones for sure.
Of course, if the survivors play like idiots, then you can still win.
Does that matter when we talk about balancing though?3 -
@Nickenzie said:
It's not that big of deal when your opponent has an extra pawn but it can mean the difference in getting absolutely destroyed or not in a few scenarios.It seems like you are attempting to downplay the imbalance of SWF by using phrases like "It's not that big of deal" and "slight advantage." For many of us, this game is about time management/efficiency mostly affected by the mechanics of hidden information/movement. "Should I go save that person now, or should I try to finish this generator and hope that at least one other person is on save standby? Will that person suicide if he/she feels that no one is coming for him? Or will all three of us end up waiting near the hook while no one does the generators?" "How many people are looking for the Ruin Hex Totem - should I at least try to power through my generator - but if everyone is powering through them, then it may actually slow us down by the endgame if none of us are hitting the skillchecks." "How many totems have been cleaned? Should I try to prevent NOED at this point?" "Will the time I spend on healing make up for a longer chase later on? Or is there someone who's better at a chase that can take on that role for me while I focus on the generators while remaining injured?" "I'm apparently the Dying Light obsession - will the other survivors be ok if I play it more safe than usual?" "Now that I've been chased away from my generator, will someone find it since I finished it up to 90%? Or will they start from scratch on the remaining generators?" "Do all the other survivors realize that the killer is going for a 3-gen strat, and that is why I'm keeping this one at 99%? Or will they end up finishing it?" "Which area of the map have the other survivors not used up the pallets so I can prolong this chase?" In a game where each second counts, and sharing information can shave off perhaps minutes by the end, to us, it isn't just a "slight advantage." It changes the entire way this game is played.
Of course, not many SWF may play that strategically. After all, that would just guarantee their victory, and what's the fun in that, right? So they'll intentionally distract themselves from the game by discussing things that are completely unrelated to this game. They have to intentionally NOT focus on the game to have a good game. Instead of playing optimally and giving their 100% to the game, they'll just screw around with each other, "having a good time."
And as a killer, you may win because of that. You may win many times against these kinds of opponents. Would you, as a killer, be satisfied with these victories? For me, personally, if my opponent isn't giving their all, as I do, then it's just a simple hollow victory. On the other hand, if SWF is making 100% good use of the extra shared information, then what are my chance of winning in the first place? We all know, and that's why we keep spouting the same "Only a small number of SWF even plays like that" idea. So for me, it's usually a lose/lose situation, even when I usually win. I don't enjoy my victories as the killer because it usually feels like I was the only one that wanted to actually win.
@Nickenzie said:
Same exact thing with SWF, they have a slight advantage but when you let their advantage build up on you...Ok, so how do you keep a very efficient and strong SWF from building up their advantage?
@Nickenzie said:
However, au contraire, SWF is absolutely broken at times because you cannot prevent the advantage build up so you're forced to fight a losing battle. The only way that I can solve this is by either removing SWF although which is unlikely to happen or have separate queues. There is no other way.Something we agree on.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
And all that information you can't guess yourself as a Solo queuer?
lol, ok0 -
Like who the killer is, who is getting chased, who is going for the save, "oh, he has a totem," what gens are almost done, on the other side of the map?Brady said:@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
And all that information you can't guess yourself as a Solo queuer?
lol, ok
lol, ok2 -
SWF in, and of itself isn't bad. Its the imbalances that come hand in hand with a virtual guarentee.
If they played without voice as the game intends, they might have been tolerable.
Problem is too many want to abuse voice, or just do out of habit and broadcast information that shouldn't be known which gives them free perks.
The problem is they aim for killers who aren't, and especially cannot be ready to fight them for easier matches.
They don't have to be a crack team to give Ill equipped killers problems.
Even some of the best killers struggle with a bad loadout, so the average, or worse killers are in it worse.
Not everyone has pages of rank 3 perks, and dozens of ebony mori, and stacks of high end addons. Kindly get such notions out of your head.
Let's not forget tan ranks get to run into green, purple, and red ranks.
If you have a problem with depipping killers, this aughta burn your bacon, too.
The problem is they're all basically a bit too tryhard. They aren't interested in the killer's fun, just getting in, and out. Again they don't have to be crack commandos because they're playing in easy mode 2x over.
Then there's the toxic ones.
Gitting gud vs broken ######### isn't fun for a lot of people. Doing it constantly is even less fun. Especially knowing the survivors game is easier while the killers is harder.
SWF is basically rampant now. Fewer and fewer want to play blindly anymore.
We gave SWF a chance. The ones looking for easy games and taking advantage of them ruined it for you.
The game isn't balanced for communication, and coordination. Expect dodges accordingly.3 -
There is a 3rd solution instead of just removing or separating SWF. You could give the survivor's more information on each other so any information they would get from SWF is now redundant and then balance accordingly. Is that the best solution? Maybe, maybe not. But it does let you balance around the assumption of communication so that when they have it there won't be an issue.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the draws to games like these IS to play with friends. ALSO correct me if I'm wrong, but they are queued separately from the regular game queue yes?
So if you don't like being a killer going against groups playing with friends, just...don't queue on a survive with friends match?
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@SIlentCetra said:
@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the draws to games like these IS to play with friends. ALSO correct me if I'm wrong, but they are queued separately from the regular game queue yes?
So if you don't like being a killer going against groups playing with friends, just...don't queue on a survive with friends match?
Oh no, Killers got SWF forced onto them.
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@Boss said:
@SIlentCetra said:
@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the draws to games like these IS to play with friends. ALSO correct me if I'm wrong, but they are queued separately from the regular game queue yes?
So if you don't like being a killer going against groups playing with friends, just...don't queue on a survive with friends match?
Oh no, Killers got SWF forced onto them.
Wait what?
So I played the game just after it came out, then ended up not playing until now. So I have missed a LOT. But I could have sword when survive with friends was first introduced, they were lobbied separately? #########? It would make sense to do it that way, since in all likelihood they are playing together while on discord.
Wow. This is some Ubisoft level crap right there :ohnoes:
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@SIlentCetra said:
@Boss said:
@SIlentCetra said:
@Tzeentchling9 said:
Bongbingbing said:Obviously it is.
Even casual SWF will know whats happening most of the time all it takes is small something like "he's on me", "Oh killer left me" or "totems here" and things most people will usually say when playing casual or not.
1000% this. All these bullshit "Oh, we only play CaSuAlLy" excuses mean totally nothing. Unless you are playing with your mics turned off and tape over your mouths, that is total bullshit. ANYTHING mentioned over the mic is information YOU ARE NOT INTENDED TO HAVE!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the draws to games like these IS to play with friends. ALSO correct me if I'm wrong, but they are queued separately from the regular game queue yes?
So if you don't like being a killer going against groups playing with friends, just...don't queue on a survive with friends match?
Oh no, Killers got SWF forced onto them.
Wait what?
So I played the game just after it came out, then ended up not playing until now. So I have missed a LOT. But I could have sword when survive with friends was first introduced, they were lobbied separately? #########? It would make sense to do it that way, since in all likelihood they are playing together while on discord.
Wow. This is some Ubisoft level crap right there :ohnoes:
I don't really mind SWF itself, i don't dodge ever for that.
But it's potential is unbalanced as #########, and they won't do anything cause it'd piss off 70% of the Survivors.
They canceled Self Care nerfs that weren't even set in stone yet because of backlash.2 -
Would be nice to at least know who is swf in your lobby or at least just a number in the corner of the screen letting you know if there are any. Even just a blood point bonus for killers based on the number of swf in a game. At least then there would be a reason for playing against swf instead of just playing a harder match.
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Killers aren't completely defenseless, it's called an asymmetrical horror game for a reason. A solo survivor is worth 25% if the killer's power since the killer's power is 100%. Therefore, if all survivors work together, both roles are now equal in power and it's now based on who has more skill. The problem is skill, survivors don't have to do much to be skillful while on the other hand the killer does need to do way more. Therefore the killer is likely to make more mistakes than the survivors because they have more things to screw up on. To fix this, we need to balance things where both sides have an equal amount of things to screw up on. Decisive Strike is a huge example, survivors don't screw up when they fail a chase with this perk but ironically, the killer screws up by picking up the survivor (without being close to a hook). Sprint Burst is another one, your poor position isn't a screw up as well when running this perk. See where I'm coming from? Survivors have more tools to undo screw ups while the killer doesn't (and yes, I don't like NOED either). Once we take care of this, then we can see what to do with SWF but for now, take a chance with SWF. Not every SWF is the depip squad and they might be chill, exaggerating the issue is not a correct way to go about things.Master said:@Nickenzie said:
Okapi said:@Nickenzie The game was not balanced around map wide 4 person voice chat. Hence the aura perks and maps for survivors. Anyone who plays in a SWF group with voice chat is getting an advantage the killer can not counter.
SWF is an unbalanced mechanic, I'll agree but unbalanced doesn't mean impossible. You can still destroy SWF squads, especially the altruistic ones for sure.
Of course, if the survivors play like idiots, then you can still win.
Does that matter when we talk about balancing though?
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I've been 4k all night as Fred boy at rank 1. Even against the dreaded SWF. So it's really not that big of a deal. Also, sometimes I lose, but it's a video game so who cares. Have fun. If you're not having fun, play something else.1
