Why kill rates are so high
Lately I've felt my kill rates have been very high, so I sought to find out why. I tracked 4 different sessions on the last patch (6.1.1), each spanning 5 games. I played Blight every game, no add-ons or offerings. My build was Shadowborn/Agitation/Pain Res/Tinkerer, and I did not camp or tunnel.
Combined results below:
-Average 8.9 downs per game
-Average of 4.1 times per game that a pre-patch Dead Hard would have gotten someone to an additional pallet or window
-Average 3.1 gens completed before first kill
-Average 3.1 kills per game (77.5%)
-Average of 1 forfeit (DC or suicide) every 3 games
-Average match length of 11 minutes (all values rounded to nearest minute)
These kill rates seem pretty high, but when put into context they're not as bad. I'll go into that more below:
-In the majority of my 4ks I noted exceptionally poor teamwork at points, like leaving someone to stage 2 or death, or not working on gens for extended periods.
-Dead Hard's nerf is likely a small factor in increased kill rates. I noted many instances in which I got downs off of mindgames that possibly could have been negated by DH pre-patch.
-The biggest factor in kill rate was match forfeits. When discounting all games in which someone forfeited, my kill rate was 61.7% across 15 games.
-When survivors work as a team and play efficiently, my games are still very competitive. I had a lot of really good players giving me a hard time, often with some really surprising builds.
61.7% isn't the huge jump everyone was expecting. In fact, it's fairly on-par with what you could expect from a Blight pre-patch. To be fair, I used no add-ons. That said, 61.7% isn't a big difference from what I at least felt like I was getting before, and I rarely ever used add-ons on Blight even before 6.1.0.
All-in-all, I believe the main factor in why survivors are doing so poorly right now are forfeits. When you have a nearly 16% difference in kill rate between when a survivor isn't throwing the match and when one is, that's probably the issue. If you have forfeits an average of every third game, of course kill rates are skyrocketing. So to the ragequitters out there, if you think a match is hopeless, it probably isn't. Don't DC every time you're losing, because if you do then you're the reason every match is hopeless.
Comments
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Pop corns, ready
Hazard suit, worn
Hotel, trivago
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I see issues with any of this tbh. It's fairly obvious to most folks that as long as all four survivors possess a functioning brain and make relatively good calls the game is a good back and forth struggle. The problem is how survivor MMR works.
Say you have bad matches with teammates with such laughably low intelligence that referring to thier intellect as "sub-brick" is a complement. Well in matches with teammates that practically kill themselves (sometimes this is more literal) the odds of escaping through the gates is far harder than it needs to be. So until you escape through the gate repeatedly, you won't get good matches, since the hatch doesn't affect MMR and death lowers it.
Honestly? If folks have awful teammates for more than 3 games today, equip Wake Up and Sole Survivor and just gate creep. Prioritize getting yourself out those doors above everything else until you get 5-10 wins a day. Do this enough times and maybe the teammates will get better.
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Killers recently received some QoL updates whereas survivors received nerfs. Camping & tunneling are more efficient now because of changes.
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I would agree that the survivor scoring system is a massive flaw in the game right now, and it's why a lot of good solo players end up losing a lot. If you're solo, while you should definitely save people in the hopes that the gens can get done, you will have to camp gates and wait out the hatch close quite a bit to get your MMR high enough to where your teammates aren't actively throwing.
That said, I do find it disappointing how many players I'm facing that have well over 2000 hours that just completely give up the second they go down a little too quickly or when I get 3 hooks before first gen. I can't even tell you how many games I've lost due to a slip-up followed by a great survivor comeback, yet for some reason so many players feel like every match is unwinnable. And that often goes for both sides, too. Just because you lost 3 gens for 2-3 hooks doesn't mean there's no chance you can still win, just pick a 3 gen and try and roll with it. Maybe you get 1 kill, maybe you can squeeze out 3.
Point is, this community needs to learn to keep its chin up, because it ain't over 'til it's over.
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Oh it's over. They announced they're releasing a new game, which means they don't give a damn about this one beyond being a cash cow. Which comes as no surprise to anyone considering how they're drilled it straight into the ground with this patch.
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Game is fine but they need to do what they're saying and start nerfing camping, they buffed it again in 6.1, it's a braindead strat,boring, zero skill needed and hard to counter for solo Q teams
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I honestly feel pretty much the same way. The game if played normally doesn't feel that much different. But so many survivors give up after the first down or hook since the patch, it seems like killers are doing better than they actually are.
The other thing I noticed is survivors saying it's not fun anymore. But I've noticed that survivors like myself who just play to play normally and effeciently (doing gens, breaking totems, saving when it's smart) aren't really experiencing this change of "fun".
If you're playing effeciently and normally, matches are the same.
However as a survivor you can't just play in the killers face anymore. You can't have your whole team body blocking and teabagging the whole match and still escape like before. If you want to play in that way to "have fun", you still can, but your chances of escaping go down a lot. Where before you had a bunch of perks that let you play that way without any real threat.
But now if you want to win, you actually have to play to win and escape.
If you as a killer play effeciently to win, and survivors play in the same way, the matches feel a lot closer and fair
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I disagree with that sentiment. While I do believe on the whole the patch was killer-sided, survivors also got the best anti-tunnel perk they've ever had in the form of Off The Record. It's practically guaranteed to buy you large amounts of time off the hook, as it gives you an effective healthy state for as long as you want it.
And while camping is marginally more effective with Deadlock now because of increased gen times, don't act like you're getting camped every game, because you're not. I've played a decent amount of survivor lately as well, and while I do get tunneled sometimes, I'm still rarely getting facecamped. And even if you do get facecamped, the killer can still only guarantee one kill. If they get another hook, save during EGC, take a protection hit, and it's a 3 man out.
And on the subject of tunneling, while it is an effective strategy while employed at the right time, it is not the most efficient strat across the board regardless of the situation. It's targeting the weak link and getting them out. But if the guy you're tunneling has OTR or is otherwise a good looper, you could throw the whole game trying to get him out because he may well waste over a minute that now 3 other survivors are using to slam gens. Tunneling is a risk, and IMO it's no more effective now than it was before.
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"The other thing I noticed is survivors saying it's not fun anymore. But I've noticed that survivors like myself who just play to play normally and effeciently (doing gens, breaking totems, saving when it's smart) aren't really experiencing this change of "fun"." --- As someone who plays like that I do disagree. To me DBD is, indeed, a lot less fun as survivor than it was in May and June. - People can have different experiences and while I'm glad you have just as much fun as before other players who play just as normally may experience things differently (e.g. me). I'm saying that mainly because to me what you said sounded a lot like "if you don't have fun anymore you must be playing 'in the killer's face'".
That being said, I don't necessarily "play to win" - which in my head translates to "hard sweating" "nothing less than 100% laser focused". I play to have fun; just casual gaming where I can relax and chill; I play for recreational purposes only. If a game for recreation is more exhausting and less fun than work... then... well.
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All that being said, and on OPs note on survivors throwing. I have noticed that if there are more than one or two hooks before the first gen pops and/or someone is dead before at least three gens pop(/the third is about to pop) it's pretty much a guaranteed 4k anyway. At least in SoloQ. In SWF there's still some hope for a two man out. We don't talk about one man our via hatch because slugging for 4k seems to be the standard now.
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The new game Meet Your Maker is a separate development team from Dead by Daylight. Behaviour brought in some small independent studio last year I think and this is probably what that team has been working on.
I guarantee they’re not abandoning Dead by Daylight.
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BHVR had another small team make a game similar to DBD, and Death Garden failed TWICE before they threw in the towel. BHVR isn't going to try and make DBD 2 anytime soon.
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I think Death Garden failed because the disparity between the power of random Scavs and squad scavs was even more insane than the difference of solo Survivor and SWF in DBD.
Going from random Scavs to a squad of Bonesaws and Ghost spamming Active camo and revives from far away was INSANE.
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You are counting all the times DH used to save someone and not counting all the times a different exhaustion perk now saved someone so yeah logic is completely off.
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Actually I'm not. If I knew someone was exhausted (for example they used SB, Lithe or Overcome) I did not record it in my stats. I only recorded chases where an exhaustion perk was not used, and someone went down near a pallet or window.
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The problem did feel in my games more caused by quitters than any game changes. With even journeyman survivors, if all four are playing their best, the matches can be tough but still feel winnable (at times!).
As survivor, the matches feel much more rough (in a good way) and challenging. The killer is someone to be feared, and a lot more care is needed to overcome then. However, when that escape is made, it feels like a earnt victory and feels good. Certainly better than before.
As killer, I feel like a very real threat. I can see the benefits of the changes that makes it feel more commanding. Also, when I lose a trial, it feels like survivors had to work hard. Even messages after trials have been better (although, as Onryo, I think survivors are just glad of the change in killer!).
But quitters were the real problem definitely.
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Guarantee DBD isn't a priority anymore, which this update has clearly shown. They are completely out of touch with the community and have no idea what they're doing. It's actually been apparent for quite some time, but 6.1 really proved it.
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They actually didn't, they need minor tweeks, not outright nerfs and buffs. For example let's take everyone's favorite cruch perk, dead hard. It needed for them to remove endurance, and that's all, it didn't need anything else, because without endurance they wouldn't be able to take hits, they would simply be able to dodge once, and not go over traps. However instead they nerfed it straight into the ground with a bunch of bs that had no point other than to ruin it completely. And this is what I'm talking about, they don't know what they're doing, they never have. They overtune so badly that it breaks the game every single patch.
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I thought I was really getting good at killer because I have had such insane win rates lately its unbelievable
then i realized people were just quitting every match/dying on hook/ dcing/ bad teams letting people go tier two or die on hook
Now my mmr is so boosted I can't do #########. I went from winning every single match to losing every single match. It was getting boring now it's just so frustrating I turned my game off and started playing cuphead. Gonna do vhs later. Get the grind in now while the game is still newish before the hard core players take hold I guess.
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That is your opinion, but the numbers of people leaving specifically because of this patch prove that it's the wrong position, this patch made a huge a mount of mistakes that resulted in a lot of people quitting outright.
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What does that have to do with what I said?
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You can disagree with some of the changes in 6.1.0 if you want but it’s crazy to say their biggest midchapter patch in quite a while is evidence they don’t consider DbD a priority.
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There isn’t anything to disagree with. My statement was neutral. BHVR explicitly said they boosted killer perks & features to help increase kill rates. They were also transparent about adjusting survivor perks based on usage in a way that disincentivizes survivors from using them. Camping & tunneling are more efficient because of these changes—whether you want to accept that or not. This isn’t a judgment call on if those are good, right, principled, ethical, fair, or whatever playstyles. It’s just a statement of fact.
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I don't know if that's true.
Facecamping is just as effective as it ever was, meaning 1K against survivors who know to do gens and ignore the camp.
There's now more incentive to not proxy camp, if you're so inclined, since gens take longer and bloodlust builds up faster, and if you do so, it's now more efficient to go after the rescuing survivor rather than the freshly unhooked.
Hard tunneling is much less efficient with basekit BT. I used to be able to immediately down a survivor off the hook once every couple of games, and that's impossible now. Tunneling is still necessary sometimes, but hitting someone directly off the hook or waiting out the five seconds (I almost never see OTR or BT) does make a difference.
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Underrated post.
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
Yes and here's the breakdown, camping and tunneling were the BIGGEST PROBLEM prepatch. And they adjusted them to be worse this patch. What do you think that means? That means that this game just went from "ok we can kind of deal with this" to "f*** this game".
Which incidentally is exactly what the numbers show happened. People didn't just say "oh this is a bad patch" They said WE QUIT screw this game.
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BHVR is not a AAA studio, when they have to prioritize they have to shift resources, they're now coming out with an entirely new game. And as much as they can claim it's a different team when push comes to shove they will prioritize that game over this one. Why? Because this one has had it's run, it's gotten consistently worse every patch, and if you don't believe me feel free to go on steam or any forum including this one and read what people say. Because the majority of them say exactly that.
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What would the results have been had you used good addons and try harded with efficient tunnelling and camping survivors to death? I bet they'd be higher....a lot higher.
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Saying "the majority of forum goers complain" means nothing because forums are always greatly skewed towards complaints. People who are generally happy with products tend not to make as many posts about that as people who are unhappy with something. Personally I think the game has improved over time and it definitely has not gotten "worse every patch".
And yeah, they have a new game and it's also a priority. But that doesn't mean they're not paying attention to Dead by Daylight, and the company is big enough to have more than one thing in the pipeline at once.
Also just FYI Behaviour's revenue in 2021 was CAD $225 million with about 900-1000 employees so they're not as small as you might think. For context that puts them on par with the #50 on the list of publicly traded video game companies by revenue. They're smaller than the top 20 but large enough to handle more than one project simultaneously.
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Camping is and always has been an absolute throw for the killer. Now you went from a guaranteed 1k doing it to a guaranteed 1k and maybe a shot at a 2k if you have Deadlock, NOED and/or No Way Out. If the killer gets more than 1 kill camping, it's probably because you gave them more than 1 kill.
Tunneling is in the exact same spot is was before if not marginally worse because, in my opinion, OTR is better than DS was. If a killer tunneled you through BT and every single predropped pallet in the past, DS may well only have 10 seconds left by the time you went down. Slugs you for a bit, comes back and rehooks you.
Now with OTR a survivor is essentially healthy off hook until they themselves decide to disable the effect. Better yet, have Resurgence or a teammate with We'll Make It and you can get healed to full and have 3 health states, so if you get tunneled the killer will just end up throwing and giving your team loads of gen time.
Killers who tunnel will tunnel, and killers who camp will camp. Camping is still not an effective strategy to win unless the survivors enable it, and tunneling is even riskier than before.
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Bold of you to assume MMR actually works
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If you’re getting tunneled how are you getting healed?
if they decide to eat BT immediately there goes your “free health state” which even if they wait out BT and hit your OTR any mobility killer will down you instantly and out you on hook. Any ranged killer is also dogging on you. Same if they play Legion or have STBFL.
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This patch slight inconvenienced SWF and totally killed SoloQ. Already weaker than killer. They just made SoloQ a stomp fest for killers in most matches since their MMR system sucks and doesn’t even work half the time
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That's why I said to run Resurgence or We'll Make It. Killers cannot proxy camp all the time if the survivors aren't screwing themselves over and not doing gens. As soon as the killer goes to pressure gens then gen the save and slam the heal in 8 seconds, or 4 if you have both perks. Even if you can't get healed, Off The Record by itself gives you 2 health states, which is directly equivalent to the best situation you could be in pre-patch before the OTR buff.
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Funny cuz any really good streamer that plays killer will tell you that SoloQ is weaker and that SWF is the only problem and power role. Hmmm
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So you have to run a specific build and waste 3 perks slots to fix a core gameplay mechanic? Alright it could work doesn’t seem like much fun but sure?
Doesn't change the fact any mobility or ranged killer is downing you almost instantly even with OTR unless you have amazing loops near you. If they’re playing a normal killer than yea, better then DS but considering half the killer roster is anti loop good luck. Only really works against M1 killers.
Even if you got downed instantly DS forced them to either wait a minute before tunneling or 5 second stun which could more often than not get you to a loop. You couldn’t really counter it if you were hard tunneling. Now with its 3 second pillow slap to the killers face you might as well put yourself back on hook. Theoretically OTR is better but in practice it has too many counters. You can still make more plays technically with OTR but if they bring 5 second DS back I can almost guarantee less or more killer will be punished for tunneling.
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Its made matchmaking worse. People have been getting teammates that literally don’t even know how to unhook people. It’s most definitely a this patch problem. Although MMR has been a problem for years so your half right.
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61.7% kill rate without add-ons and without using “dirty” tactics is actually kinda nuts. It means a sweaty player who actually brings good stuff likely averages 65-70%, which is too high imo.
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One of the main issues DbD has is that the level of effectiveness drops tremendously from 4 to 3 survivors alive to the point you can't never win a game if you're 2.
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Which is what 99% of the killers do: get their best add-ons and camp to death
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Didn't play optimally as killer (no camping/tunneling).
Didn't use addons, which greatly increase killer's power.
Average kill rate still much higher than 50 percent.
Hmm. Everything seems right as rain.
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This is a good take on where we are now,I have played both survivor and killer since the update and notice no real difference other than than an increase in DC,s.Another thing to be taken into consideration is just how reliant some players were on DS and DH,I’m sure in time it will settle and people will start using more intelligent builds to replace them.
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Here's the problem, they haven't successfully handled this game. And what I mean by that is, there hasn't been 1 single second where this game was bug free, none laggy, no rubberbanding, people getting randomly disconnected, etc. Now you might say "aww those are common issues", but they aren't. They are common issues for a game that was released last week and it takes a year to sort. They are not common issues when you're 7 years into your game.
In fact I have it on good authority that a lot of stuff that they have a problem with is because they stack spaghetti code without resolving the issues that originally occurred there.
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90 second gen time + gen slow down, buys enough time to actually camp survivors successfully. SWF's or very efficient players can still get generators done but camping got improved dramatically this patch.
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Oh no the most busted perk in DBD's history got nerfed, we are so sad. Anyway.
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My goal was not to justify how high I can possibly get my kill rates, it was to justify why kill rates are higher than normal, meaning I must play the exact way I normally do to get accurate data. And you may actually want to learn a bit more about "optimal" killer play because camping is not optimal most of the time unless to secure a kill during EGC, because you're giving them free gens, and tunneling is only optimal in specific circumstances.
The idea that tunneling is always the optimal strategy across the board is not correct. And while I said I didn't tunnel, that does not mean I didn't shoot for early kills. I just shot for pressuring gens and getting a lot of hooks because, at its core, the best slowdown in the game is having someone on the hook.
This video's a pretty good summary as to why tunneling and camping are not some perfect across the board strategy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpqWii_HI-8
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Yes, camping got improved. That does not make it a good strategy, however. You will still lose the majority of games if you camp and the survivors aren't braindead.
And the only gen slowdown that physically works while camping is Deadlock, because it's the only one that actively slows gens with no action from you. Camping inherently requires you do basically nothing.
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Trust me, while I did not camp or tunnel necessarily I was very much sweating my ass off with my 180s and other flicks. And my build is inherently catered around seeing a gen I need to stop and going directly there, hence why I run Tinkerer. With my build, tunneling is honestly an ineffective strat because Pain Res does nothing and Tinkerer's info becomes worthless if I'm only chasing one guy.
And like I mentioned in my stats, they were padded based on the fact that a lot of games the survivors played exceptionally poorly. I had probably almost a dozen people get left to 2nd stage when I was on the complete opposite side of the map.
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But again, OTR is directly equivalent to being healthy, with the only exception being that you have to mend. If you're getting tunneled right now with OTR on the current patch, you are in an inherently better situation than you were in the past, because you are the equivalent of being healed to full pre-patch, and never even had to heal in the case you're running OTR.
And yes, specific perks have always been a requirement in this game, whether that's a good thing or not. Exhaustion perks have always been a must, as has been BT. Now instead of BT, it's OTR. Gen slowdown is still required, just now instead of Pop and Ruin it's Call of Brine and Deadlock. This patch is far more alike to how the game has always been than you think. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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Camping to secure the next hook stage/kill is the only optimal play in tournament play, which I have played in. Tunneling goes hand in hand, and when done right off the bat is absolutely the optimal play. You may want to learn a bit yourself.
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Because it's your personal experience.
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