Anyone else think that slowdown is creating a viscious cycle?
Like now that people have adjusted to the new meta Im seeing constant prove thyselves like literall the past 7 matches I have seen 2 or more prove thyself in 3 of them and only 1 match had no prove thyselves. I never really ran slowdown but now people are bringing provethyself and stacked toolboxes to counter other killers slowdown Im feeling pressured into it. Most of my games recently have been going 1st survivor holds W and predrops 5 or 6 pallets and in the meantime like 2 gens pop on the other side of the map. Like I have been trying to get devour to work but it feels downs come too slow in comparason to gens and it ends up just being the endgame where i realistically wouldve been better off running like NOED Bloodwarden or something along those lines. I feel like people are being so prepared for the slowdown meta that it feels playing anything else other than slowdown isn't all that viable.
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For some reason I read viscous on the title.... Had to check it out.
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I mean im sure for survivors going against 4 slowdowns its rather viscous so sorta?
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well, they told survivors to git gud for days and to adapt... they adapted and now we hear complains about other perks and items because survivors can never win :D
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The killers started it. You'll notice you didn't see survivors spamming Prove Thyself UNTIL killers started spamming slow downs + benefitted from 10 seconds to each generator, recovery from hits quicker, etc.
Survivors were told to adapt. So we did. Deal with it. Maybe if killers didn't spam slowdown perks to begin with we wouldn't spam Prove Thyself. But nooooo, you ya'll just had to stack 4 slow downs. So now you will get gen rushed by Prove Thyself and BNP's
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It is a vicious cycle. Survivors start to struggle and killers decide, instead of trying new combos or picking perks to compliment powers, to start four stacking slowdown and regression perks. Survivors in turn start bringing what they can to push gens faster. Next up we will be seeing more and more complaints of Nurse, Blight, Endgame builds, Franklin's and whatever else killers can pull out to counter the toolbox and PT play style.
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well, I've seen Franklin's a lot more these days...
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If you really believe that survivors weren't running prove thyselves or toolboxes before slowdown became killer meta, then you are really blinded by your own bias.
Killer has always been an uphill battle and trying to control gens and get hooks. Survivors have had many nerfs towards repairing gens (old toolboxes, old bnp, and now time to repair).
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it didn't feel necessary before, it does now
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Well it's a great thing we have statistics for these things and I can factually say Prove Thyself is nearly twice as popular now as it was before the killer buff patch.
Try again.
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This whole game is a vicious cycle
When something cause a side to build around (Gens, healing, Totems, chases... etc) to throw balance out the window (and Devs help with perk changes as well)
Gen take longer... Thana became a focal point of playstyle
Regression being (word I can't say out loud right now)... regression perks
And vice versa
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I would bring it for my killer games but since I came back from a long break it's helped change my mindset from competitive play to a more relaxed mindset. Now if I see beamers in my lobbies I just chuck on Lightborn to avoid searing my retinas while kicking pallets and ignore the fact other items exist.
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As usual, BHVR messed up.
Look, I can understand wanting to boost the kill rates, but they've chosen the worst possible way to do it. Instead of messing with the killer's basekit, they should have buffed perks that affect it, such as Fire Up and STBFL. That way, you get the stronger effect you wanted but you have to give a perk slot for it.
The way they did it gives you room to have those slightly stronger effects plus 4 slowdown perks stacked together. That isn't good.
If Prove Thyself was the perk people have selected to counter this new situation then, by all means, it should be used.
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Okay and?
Prove Thyself was being ran enough before that people were complaining about it being too good. A bunch of perk nerfs happened and now a perk that was already considered good is being ran more.
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This game needs other main objectives outside of just doing generators. It's what it's always needed, and many have stated that over the years.
That is one thing I feel that games like The Evil Dead have done right in recent years. There's very little down time when playing as either side. You're always doing something, always working towards something. Which is why even though matches are longer, they don't feel that way and drag on.
In DBD if matches were longer everyone would hate it because without more main objectives, it means more time doing nothing really, and that's boring. Sitting on generators for 6 minutes straight is boring. There needs to be more than just that.
Other asymmetrical games showcase it pretty well. With both sides starting off relatively weak and both getting stronger as the game progresses. The side that plays better gets stronger and is eventually able to beat the other side.
DBD could use to take a few pointers in this regard.
Right now killers start with no pressure and less power over the outcome of the match. That only changes based on their own ability to pressure The other side into mistakes.
The survivors start at their strongest at the beginning of the match, and only get weaker if they make mistakes, or don't do the thing that they don't want to do, which is sit on generators all match.
It's pretty much giving a boring task with basic gameplay that needs little interaction, and then forcing players to do that or lose.
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But I do not run any slowdown and nor did I ever complain about survivors or tell them to adapt. Am I allowed to not deal with it? You sure are a mean little Avocado. I thought those were supposed to be nice, but today you have made me realize to never trust an Avocado again.
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Prove Thyself and toolboxes received no changes on this patch. You can pretty much imagine how oppressive they were back then when there weren't the extra 10 seconds on a gen.
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There is absolutely nothing that has changed with that perk or toolboxes where they would suddenly be better to their pre-6.1.0 variants unless we pretend survivors are a hivemind who have been holding back this entire time and only now are bringing toolboxes and running prove thyself. I saw both of those regularly pre 6.1.0 and continue to see them regularly since the patch.
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How is PT good in a game where you're alone and people won't stick around to repair gens with you? If only it showed the aura of your gen so other could know then yes, it would be really good
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Prove Thyself gives other survivors a buff icon indicating you have it and you can choose to work on a gen with someone else is working on. Prove Thyself really shines at getting a key gen done quickly that could otherwise be hard to finish.
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Only if you're close to them. I would probably increase that radius. Sometimes you don't even see the icon until you're onto the gen where the PT owner is working.
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that's why you didn't need them back then, it was a plus
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People who have been hook get a massive repair speed penalty until the next person gets hooked.
Solves tunneling and baseline slowdown that the killer has to earn.
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If you're not running prove/gen rushing your pretty much giving the match away at this point.
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Just to show how broken survivors were back then.
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Stop talking nonsense.
Nobody had space for Prove Thyself because they were running DS, BT, DH & COH.
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I mostly certainly saw Prove Thyself a non insignificant amount of time. You can sub CoH for PT, because you don't need 4 CoHs.
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You assume I'm in a SWF. Such a killer thing to do.
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Where did I mention SWF?
I play mostly solo survivor when I play survivor and I still saw a lot of PTs before 6.1.0.
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Lets be honest, prove thyself always has been strong even before the patch came. No doubt though the perk is more popular now. Personally I never ran it much before patch but nowadays as a solo q survivor main, I run it every game. I call it my Prove Thyself grimy fingers which I eventually place on every generator. Its just too good to not use frankly.
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That's literally how this game runs though. Killers want to kill and survivors want to survive, so they equip the best tools/addons/perks etc to compensate for their weaknesses in game. If someone doesn't have good map pressure as a killer, then slowdown perks are a must. If a survivor is finding they're consistently dying before all gens are done, then gen speed up perks are a must. Not everyone thinks or plays the same way, and no one equips perks as a personal attack. It's literally just about covering their behind.
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And all I saw pre-patch was Nurses calling, B&C, Thanatophobia and NOED. So?
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Im a killer main and this is entirely accurate. I only ever played one gen perk. Since the patch, I feel forced to do 2 gen perks now due to how many survivors are atacking gen speeds. It sucks because both sides feel compelled to bring uninteresting and not fun perks to the table. I wish regression was Baseline across the board and no way to regress or repair more. That would leave 4 perk slots for more fun combos.
I'd just have gens automatically slowly regress. No kicks needed. However, there's no way to make that regression faster, and there's no way to repair faster except for toolboxes and doubling up on gens. This would leave more perk options for both sides and make gen balance far easier to manage.
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Refer to thana new nerf to see survs adaptation lvl
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I'm starting to feel this way as a killer. At first I was bringing 2 slowdowns max and games were fine I won some I lost some but I had good games either way. Now I've seen even more prove thyself and maxed toolboxes to the point where my 2 slowdowns aren't enough and I'm starting to feel like I need more.
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The devs have published statistics about the most used Perks on both sides, Prove Thyself was not part of said statistics (neither among the Top 5, nor Top 12).
Using things to decrease gens times is now more beneficial than ever, since the window of opportunity for a killer to interrupt a gen (higher gen duration, potentially shorter chases) has been spread wider, compared to pre-patch. You don't need a hive mind to understand that. The same way you don't need a hive mind to understand that stacking slowdown perks is now more beneficial than pre-patch.
And even though there's no hive mind, killers keep stacking them slowdowns. Strange eh?
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Unfortunately I saw this coming soon as they added the 10 seconds to gens. I knew the change in that plus DS change etc that gen rushing would be the new norm even more than before . Idk how they didn't think it would become even more sweaty and less fun for non sweaty killers/solos .
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Agreed. And to the survivors saying they just adapted that’s fair. Now the literally only way for killers to win at higher or even mid upper mmr is to tunnel someone out. Zero options now but to force people off gen with the altruism.
in taking a break. My 90% win streak is turning jnti zero now. Like op said even if I spawn beside a survivor it doesn’t matter run and throw pallets and gens pop period, had one pop at 37 seconds yesterday.
game is absolutely now fun in either side right now
i I tried really hard to defend this update because 1) I wanted a new meta and 2) dredge is my favorite video character in like a decade
but both sides suck I play now that the dust has settled
killers cannot afford a SINGLE second wasted or they lose so tunnel time
survivors cannot afford a SINGLE second off gens, so gen rush build time
I wish we could reverse this patch and the mmr changes from kk this agi
what blows my mind is the player base is dwindling. You can see it on the steam charts. No discussion about it though, just a than erasure entirely and a MoM nerf no one not even killers asked for
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You didn't adapt, you cried and got Thana nerfed.
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