I think role BP bonuses are one of the biggest band-aid fixes in DBD history.
If there are way more people playing one side than the other, then it shows there is an issue with your game itself. It doesn't matter if it's "more balanced." In any game, especially a more casual game such as this, fun takes priority.
And when one role in your game is so unfun, and your game's grind is so unfun, that you need to provide bonuses, that shows a massive problem. Killer queues have been upwards of 10 minutes for most regions, and nothing is being done to address it other than this horrible band-aid.
Personally, I think it's insulting that they're dangling BP in our face for playing the role we don't enjoy. Fix the core game.
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And why do you think they keep throwing matches?
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When you are a soloQ player who has never been in the power role. Alright dude, enjoy your queues, ill enjoy choosing which games I play out.
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Exactly this...I don't know howany soloQ matches I was able to repair 3 gens by myself without Prove Thyself or other speed up perks. But here we are players refusing to do Gens, refusing to heal, crouch walking or hiding most game, Suiciding on hook or just walking up to the Killer to be downed.....
On Killer side all that does is ruins my games by pushing my MMR into zone I wouldn't normally be.
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Because they won't adapt to the changes sadly. I have seen survivors adapt to them and are fine. Another reason is they found out they are not as skilled as they thought they were
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Just 10min ago I had a pretty fun match with Bubba. It was on one of the big farm maps. Got a pretty early down on one survivor, then chased another one who was clearly an expert looper and awesome survivor. I wasted a bit too much time on them, but broke chase early enough to catch another survivor.
Then I ping ponged between the two already on hook until one of them was sacrificed; actually I semi tunneled them: I was actually chasing another survivor, but heared the healing grunts and this sealed their fate. I got my second kill when the 4th gen popped, leaving just one remaining and I got no real three-gen, but a long line, so it was workable. In the end we had a pretty intense cat and mouse game, but with no real outlier on the gen setup I could pretty much patrol them well enough until I found one of the survivors out in the open. The last survivor got the hatch.
If I hadn't done the semi tunnel in the midgame I would probably have lost this one with a 1k max. The game is still swingy and the winning side is usually decided pretty early, but it didn't feel like I was totally dominating or in absolute control of the game. Not every game is this balanced, but its not an outlier, either.
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That's why I don't want to see a million posts about stacked slowdowns when a solo survivor can push out three gens easily. Two survivors with a Prove Thyself going will make short work of Gens.
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I know. I never used DH or DS because I didn't want to become reliant on them so the change never affected me and I was still having fun for the most part on survivor
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Imagine if pre patch 6.1.0 someone would have told you, Why won't you adapt to dead hard?
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No one ever said that they said just bait it out. There was no way to adapt to a perk that extended the chase by allowing a survivor to reach a pallet or window they normally couldn't make it too before
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I might try using it now too.
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I play in a power role when solo, and nothing, I often get tunneled, camped, but I never got around to saying anything to the killer other than gg wps, but not something bad, especially when I win. On the contrary, I left SwF because it was too easy to play, we stupidly fix all the generators and run away, boredom, no excitement, fear of losing, I want a competitive moment, run with the killer, not toxic, namely, run and die, even if we lose ) If you only enter the game to repair the generators and you don't have time to run to the save after the hit and you run for more than 30 thanks to the deadhurd, then the killer buffs are not the problem. You need to learn all aspects of the game, look for solutions, and not change the game, because someone quickly moves away from the stun after hitting.
BP is not the way to go, a lot of people don't play for bp, although I still prefer survivors because the rewards are off for the time being. I will play for those for whom they give more.
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and how do you adapt to 4/5 passives killer buffs with 90 sec gens and 4/5 buffed slowdown perks to extend the game over 30min?
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Matchmaking incentives aren't particularly unusual for games with different roles, even ones where you're on the same team as eachother. Its not really a band-aid so much as it is a quality of life feature that aims to help queue times.
DBD has pretty much always had some form of imbalance in time to find a match depending on time of day, region, and role you were going for, so to me this is a very welcome quality of life feature. Besides, this literally doesn't prevent the devs from making any kind of balancing decisions in any way, it just gets people into matches faster.
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No single game I have played lasted more than 8 mins. It's Survivors that don't work on gens or are just sabotaging the game are the issues. Even with slowdowns I am able to push out 3 gens before the last survivor drops.
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Then you are extremely lucky to not face 4 stack slowdown killer, or you are playing at the lowest mmr. or you are not playing at all
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I think this, along with the meta-shakeup, should be very telling to people on how the devs are trying to balance-- they can't, past a certain point. It doesn't help that other factors get in the way of this, including tomes, dailies, lobby dodging leading to bad matchmaking, SWF vs Solo, fun vs sweat.. It really goes on.
That said, I don't mind the BP multiplier since I play both roles but I would have been just as fine if they put a BP bonus on the base game while introducing a casual play mode for quicker games.
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When you consider that there's 4 players for every 1 killer it's pretty natural to have a mismatch in numbers. The whole point of the matchmaking incentives is to encourage players to play a different role during times that are needed...for example it could be late at night in your area and there's a lack of survivors at that time, as 4 are needed for one match, the incentives will show that, and give a small reward for playing the side that's needed at that point.
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As replacements for BBQ and WGLF, this makes them a straight downgrade for the user because they can no longer choose which side they wish to play while getting extra bloodpoints. And they ARE replacements for those two perks, though perhaps BHVR will deny this.
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Considering how match people played survivors during that 100% period, it's certainly a great band aid which can dynamically fix problems.
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They are not replacements for the bonus BP on BBQ/WGLF - they're purely there for matchmaking, there's nothing hidden about "making up for something" in the slightest.
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solo queue was never the power role and you're objectively wrong
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You cannot fix people not wanting to play a certain role, that is why the incentives are here, to make people play certain roles more.
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Hell at least the band aid its not in form of a perk.
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You guys stated that the matchmaking incentive will provide additional BP to help the BBQ BP removal. Brining up the matchmaking incentive in the context of people being upset about the BBQ nerf makes OPs conclusion valid. Is that now retracted since apparently its not connected at all?
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The bonus BP from matchmaking incentives is a bandaid solution for grinding BP but it's still a horrible solution. Grinding BP without BBQ/WGLF and matchmaking incentives have been terrible. I was about to quit the game because the BP grinding is not fun but BHVR decided to activate the bloodhunt. I would love to see BHVR increase the BP cap to 16k and rebalance the BP earn (such as increase BP from hooking survivors or something). Without BBQ, the killer is often camping and tunnelling because there's no reward enough so they want to finish the game faster.
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I've been a de facto solo survivor main since the patch came out because killer queues are too long.
Solo is absolutely fine. I escape >50% of my games, and even ones I don't usually the exits are opened and someone escapes.
Its not just about DH sure, but the changes overall mean that survivors have to play more cautiously, instead of rushing the killer with second chances and flashlights and teabagging their way to victory. So yeah, the 'survivors' who have given up playing survivor are absolutely having a tantrum, and frankly solo survivor is better without them. I'm sure they're all currently camping with Bubba instead.
But that's besides the point. Even if the game was perfectly balanced, it's just a fact of the game's format that queues will be uneven. You need 4x as many survivors than killers for matchmaking to work effectively, and evenings are disproportionately SWF favoured because that's when groups are more likely to be available at the same time. Which means queue role incentives would be a benefit anyway. To get more playing killer in the evening, and fewer playing killer during the day.
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I'd be interested to see where we said that. As all our official communications has had MMI standing on their own and clearly explaining why we're using them...and there's no mention of replacements for bonus perks at all.
https://deadbydaylight.com/news/quality-of-life
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/337-developer-update-june-2022
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I mean the game has existed for 5-ish years with BT and DS as the sole counters to tunneling/camping so it seems a bit overdramatic to say matchmaking incentives are the biggest band-aid fix in DBD history.
We also don't really know whether or not the BP incentives will work as they are meant to. If I were to guess by the first day when they were enabled but bugged, I would guess that they probably will work. It was on the day that "survivor in solo queue is terrible" yet killer queue times were 1 second and survivor queue times were 5-10 minutes because it was bugged to give matchmaking incentives to survivors. This leads me to believe the intended effect will probably work. People who have a specific preference won't switch. People who play both but have a slight preference towards one side might be enticed if the reward is high enough. People who don't care will definitely play on the role with incentives.
We don't really know if this will improve the queue times and/or the matchmaking though because we haven't had it properly working for a day to see if things actually perform better. We only have evidence that people can be enticed into playing the "undesirable" role.
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"We will be removing the Bloodpoint bonus. While we understand this change may seem shocking, please keep in mind that this update reduces the grind by about 75%, with matchmaking incentives providing an additional avenue for Bloodpoints"
The change to BBQ isn't 'shocking' because the incentives provide an additional avenue for bloodpoints. I fail to see how an 'additional avenue' for something that has been removed is not in fact a replacement.
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That's not what it means I'm afraid, that's reading too much into the words that we're saying. We are clearly stating that there's other ways to earn bloodpoints, and the ways in which BP can be earnt - it's most definitely not saying that MMI are a replacement. Especially as MMI will not be available at all times, they will be there for if/when which side needs it at any specific time of day, region, MMR rating etc.
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I’m sorry bud, but this isn’t even a hot take—it’s just misinformed.
There is not enough correlation to make such claims
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How can updates help new players earn BP and create perks set for loadout? It does not reduce the grind by about 75% for new players and current players who main 5 characters or less. The grind is reduced by about 20-50% at best depending on when they are starting to play DBD but you basically removed 20-50% by removing BBQ/WGLF stacks. BP without BBQ/WGLF or matchmaking incentives are very slogged because you can only get 25k average BP for the killers or 15-20k average for the survivors. If the survivors get camped or tunnelled, they are SOL. They are not even enough BP for bloodweb level when the characters are level 15+.
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The way they've changed the progression system, it's not actually possible to assign any flat number to it. Some aspects of the grind have increased, some have decreased, and that's depending on how you approach it.
As far as flat perk acquisition goes, the grind is generally reduced, in some ways slightly, in other ways massively.
As far as item/add-ons go, it's remarkably worse, but they have said they're going to address this. Would have been good to have addressed it at the same time because it's definitely something that was forseeable, but it's better than nothing.
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In the initial perk update post.
I understand that it was mentioned that the grind would be reduced by 75% and that you guys didn't want BP to be why perks are picked. However, brining up MM incentives in the context of people potentially getting upset over the BP loss makes people associate the BP loss with the incentives. If both of them have absolutely nothing to do with each other, bringing it up here sends the wrong message, a message that way more people than I received.
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What are the "new ways to earn bloodpoints to compensate"? I thought Peanits was referring to the matchmaking incentives BP bonuses, as they were the only new ways that have been added?
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I would call that a great idea.
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Yeah don't want to lash out at Mandy or anything but it was pretty clearly stated that the matchmaking incentives would at least be a "sort of" replacement for BBQ/WGLF.
Even with the Blood Rush, grinding feels real slow now man. I've got lots of perks now, and that's great. But I want addons, and that's gonna take longer than before.
Maybe my mind will change when the incentives come back. I just watched an old VOD of Incentive BP gain and it does in fact multiply everything by 100%. So you can bring a BP offering and get huge value.
But when people say that "there's something wrong with your game if there's a big disparity in killers or survivors" they don't take into account that a lot of players swap from killer to survivor when all their friends get online in the evening, and some players mostly just play survivor since killer is too stressful. I actually think both sides are very fun to play now.
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Don't act as if the period of time before this patch didn't happen by claiming the current state is "natural." For years it was very common for Killer queues to be quicker during the day as there were a ton of people on Survivor, and Survivor queues during the night as those numbers dwindled. As of the current patch Killer queues are constantly longer than Survivor queues, to a SIGNIFICANT degree at their worst.
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Until tunnelling and the whole bad experience that is soloQ are addressed once and for all, I don't see things changing. They may fluctuate a bit, but at the core these are the 2 biggest issues IMHO, and they are compounded by each other.
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Teammates throwing the game is not a skill issue. However, yes, survivor is STILL the power role with the caveat that most survivors are quite bad and unorganized which makes the game FEEL extremely killer sided. People always blame the killer for their and their teammates actions. It is like some coping mechanism.
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I love playing with 2 survivors left with 4 gens done.
See, Friday the 13th had situations were the match was doomed for counselor, but it was at least FUN.
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Yes, they are. Maybe you didn't intend them to be, but they are. The incentives are replacements for the bonus BP on BBQ/WGLF for, if no other reason, being released at exactly the same time those bonuses were removed from the perks.
If that was by design, then saying one isn't a replacement for the other is disingenuous, at best, because that's how they've been accepted and there's no way anyone who considered the timing wouldn't have expected that.
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FYI people were ASKING for BP incentives. This is what the community wanted. You can't blame BHVR for a bandaid fix when you all asked for it.
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I don't think people were asking for the BP bonus to be removed from BBQ/WGLF at the same time.
I think it's understandable that people want short queue times on whatever role they are playing and if the MMI will provide that - great. They are a good thing, but not if the BP grind without them is unbearable.
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Multiple games have this system and then there's that don't but should
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Nah. Players should still have the freedom to suicide if they want.
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You can only limit so much power and freedom from players. I'm not saying they need OP perks or a win-button but restricting stuff in the base game isnt good. There are more clever ways of approaching the soloq dilemma.
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Why do you think people will suicide?
Edit: To add, why do you think people ARE suiciding in hook?
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I guess I'll provide feedback in 2 patches...
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Because they feel hopeless.
Why do they feel hopeless?
Because they got used to a certain way of playing and refuse to adapt to changes.
I'll repeat again. I've been a de facto solo survivor main since the patch inflated killer queue times. Now that most of the tantrum throwers have actually given up playing instead of sabotaging games, It's absolutely fine. If you don't play like a complete tool by rushing the killer and relying on second chances to save you from your teabag induced tunnelling.
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