The Players must understand and accept, that BHVR cannot prevent tunneling and camping
yo,
they must finally understand and accept that.
If I choose to tunnel or camp a survivor as a killer, that is my own decision for which BHVR is not responsible. Tunneling and camping are parts of the game, it's as simple as that.
Fact: BHVR can develop tools that make tunneling and camping less effective and that's a good thing, but you can't remove tunneling and camping from the game entirely, because that would be too much of an intrusion into the killer's game.
Yes, it can be frustrating as a survivor, but you can't and shouldn't prevent it.
Greetings
Comments
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Okay, it's still anti-fun and we should try to limit it as much as possible.
I figure if we make it so that Killers do not need to camp or tunnel, we can then remove their ability to.
I just don't think a player should have the ability to completely prevent another user from playing the game. That's dumb.
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''that would be too much of an intrusion into the killer's game.''
This means nothing. Its just buzzwords.
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limit ? yes
take ability ? no
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Why not?
If we make it so that Killers don't have situations where tunneling someone out or camping them is the best play, why shouldn't we remove it?
Buff Killers so that tunneling/camping isn't needed and then remove it. Idealistic? Probably. Unrealistic? Absolutely.
I simply do not think that allowing one player to completely deny another the ability to enjoy and play the game is good design.
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buzzwords...aha. Are you sure about this ? 🤣
What do you want to do? Completely immunize a survivor after a hook ?
No killer will go along with that and accept
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I think including an anti-tunnel incentive in the tutorial would be a massive help in encouraging newer killers to not camp.
Realistically as the game is right now, killers shouldn't camp, it's detrimental to their odds of actually winning and getting more blood points. Still we have to accept that there are situations where the killer is forced to camp, specifically in endgame and the fact there isn't just one type of camping
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The problem is being camped or tunneled isn't taking away your ability to play the game.
Survivor gameplay includes being on a hook. A killer camping you on the hook is not preventing you from engaging with survivor gameplay. Is it not fun, sure. The new perk on the ptb to pause the hook state can almost indefinitely extend the hook duration and while that counters camping the person on the hook certainly isn't having more fun.
As far as tunneling, being chased is also a part of survivor gameplay. A lot of survivors insist that the chase is the fun part of survivor gameplay. So while I can understand some people don't necessarily enjoy being immediately chased off hook before they could heal up, nothing about that is preventing you from playing the game.
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The fact remains...they can do only so much to help prevent it. At the end of the day, it's the player's choice to tunnel and camp; nothing can be done to prevent that. They can give anti-camp perks, and they can do BP penalties for tunneling and camping, but killers that want to camp and tunnel will still camp and tunnel.
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You notice this opinion now in 2022 ?
although Dead By Daylight has already been on the market since 2016....
Sorry, but I do not understand this attitude
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The problem isn't really that camping and tunneling is a thing. The problem is how effective it is.
Turning the game into a 3v1 asap is just too advantagous for the killer.
If it wasen't or there was a benifit to spreading hooks you would see tunneling a lot less
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Correct. That's why I am concerned about Reassurance and why I specified that we should get rid of scenario's where camping/tunneling is the best option.
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That made even less sense than the first post.
My dude, you have trouble connecting thoughts in a way that makes any sense. Following your flow in logic is like following an olympic mental gymnastics competition.
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It should be a rule among the community to camp and tunnel only when it is absolutely necessary to do so.
That is understandable.
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Actually, it occurred to me in 2018, about a month after I first played the game.
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I mean, they could just pause the timer on the hook until the killer leaves (and we're talking more than proxy camping, like straight up going somewhere else more the 40 meters from the hook) (So, a base kit kinship would be nice)
And for tunneling they could just give them a 50% haste speed boost if they're in chase getting right off hook.
BHVR can do much more than preventing camping and tunneling, the fact is, they refuse to cause they've taken a liking to it and said "It's apart of the game." It's really not, it's a choice people make. A bad choice, but still a choice.
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If you want to make the argument that being facecamped by a Killer isn't limiting your ability to play the game, go ahead.
It's a bad argument, but you're allowed to make it.
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Doing gens is part of the game too. They can make gens take 10 secs to get done. If I choose to finish them is my decision too
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Unfortunately to do that, the devs would have to change or tweak the base game design without directly/indirectly nerfing/buffing either side. If that sounds impossible, then it likely is or maybe it is possible.
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ok and the earth is a disk
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Your ability to play the game isn't being limited. You can not like how survivor gameplay is designed, but survivors are designed to be largely helpless on the hook and reliant on their teammates saving you. A killer preventing survivors from unhooking you is not preventing you from playing the game.
If you want to propose a different mechanic than the current hook state, go ahead. But the only way that a killer can actually prevent you from playing the game is if they body block you in the corner of the map and just sit there. Which is reportable btw.
Now I do think being able to facecamp survivors to death is not healthy for the game.
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It probably is.
However, they seem to enjoy band-aiding things with perks more than fixing core issues.
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Sheesh.
Yeah, I'm not even going to continue this argument. You've practically made my point for me.
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Camping and tunneling were already part of the game since release.
As I said, like to limit, not remove
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Well, they actually can. They can either address the core gameplay mechanics that lead to camping and tunneling, or they can give players of all party compositions the baseline information to make strategic decisions to deal with camping/tunneling. Right now the devs do neither. They release bandaid perks.
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Tunneling, you could make a case for.
BHVR clearly wants Survivor to be able to be unhooked, otherwise they wouldn't have removed actual facecamping. Some Killers can still make it impossible to unhook the Survivor, ergo, we can infer from their past actions that this is not ideal.
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I mean sure they can't remove it. But it for hell removes the killer's skill. I don't mind at 1 or 0 gens but when they are doing it at 5 gens it is boring AF. Most of us play solo q but the way the games going it feels like they will be more and more SWF groups.
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I think that the problem is different. How to remove camping and tunneling without making it op?
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Baseball bats
Killer is hanging around the hook the other three survivors can find baseball bats in the map and stun lock the killer until the rescue is done. 😂
I still like my smoke bomb on the hook idea the best 🙂
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Yeah, hes a killer main which means he's always right LOL honest no point arguing with him. I rarely play killer as survivors more fun for me, well use to be fun. I just know that when I play killer its too easy now since the update and I never even tunnel or camp.
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If I choose to tunnel or camp a survivor as a killer, that is my own decision for which BHVR is not responsible. Tunneling and camping are parts of the game, it's as simple as that.
Um, what did I just read? LOL
Who are we to blame but BHVR for holding your hand? I get it, you get to access a broken part of the game that hasn't been touched since the face-camping era. The game is on a different level now, and yes it should be dealt with.
If that means it needs to be removed or disincentived, that isn't up to you. It is up to them and their decision-making. You are not the arbitrator.
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I play both sides and do believe that tunneling and camping should be nerfed as they are currently too effective.
I just don't see tunneling and camping prevent survivors from playing the game. Being on a hook might not be engaging, but it's still part of survivor gameplay. It's fine you don't like a gameplay mechanic.
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BHVR has not abolished facecamping. They just created a way to unhook the survivor from different positions, and that's perfectly fine. I can still facecamp someone as a killer if I feel like it, and that option shouldn't be taken away. It's limited (which is good), but it's still there (which is also good).
Result? Both sides are satisfied
Problem? The survivors complain about it because it's not fun for them to be camped on the hook ( or tunneled ). It's only fun when the survivors are having fun, right? But if the killer has fun, then the screaming is big...
This is very simple and will never change ( Hi i play both sides 70% Survivor atm 🖐️)
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No, it's not good that facecamping is a thing.
I'm not even going to continue to respond. You're either so biased that I couldn't change your mind or you're trolling.
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How else are they going to tempt you to part with your hard earned money and purchase the next chapter?
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Yes, it's part of the gameplay mechanic, but it is not fun to hang on the hook for 2 minutes straight at the start of a match because the killer wants the easy kill to go for a 1v3. Then if you do get unhooked that same killer tunneling you for the exact same reason is still not fun for the survivor.
I get everyone is responsible for their own fun, but camping and tunneling are way too easy where a killer should have to work for their kills like survivors need to work for their escape.
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I am neither unbiased nor do I troll. I'm just stating my opinion, and if you don't like it, it's not my fault.
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It's been part of the game since 2016, what's not to understand? Is it that difficult?
I am certainly not an arbitrator and If BHVR wants to change something they will, I am not worried.
Restrict and make less effective ? yes
remove completely ? No
The player should make their own decisions in the game and if they have the option then they have the right to use it. (camp, tunnel: Whether the strategy is effective or useful is an open question and remains to be seen.)
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Well, we all know it's part of the game, but my main issue is how it can (and usually does) completely decimate Solo Q matches. It shouldn't be as effective as it is. In a Solo Q match, you discover the Killer is just standing by the hook and you get one of two scenarios; your Solo Q team mates all dive bomb and the Killer gets tons of points, but you all die.
Or else, the person being facecamped hook suicides or disconnects. Often that causes the second person the Killer hooks ( and usually camps) to kill themselves or disconnect. Then here you have 2 people left with probably 3-4 gens, absolutely no hope of escaping. Everyone makes shite bloodpoints. Like, how can that be healthy for the game?
At the very least Devs should use one of their 2 brain cells and NOT completely gut anti-tunneling perks or buff camping and tunneling.
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So I am guessing you would have felt the same way back when they added Exhaustion to perks right? Why did we need exhaustion it's been that way since release? 😂
Good, then you know that telling people to just "accept" something isn't going to fly. They also would like to have fun playing the game they paid for.
As for "removing" it depends on what that means. If it means it is going to make it impossible for killers to camp but not lose the pressure they have via other means. Then yes removing it sounds much healthier.
The problem is you aren't even trying to be non-biased and it is showing by the simple fact that you want to keep an old unhealthy playstyle in a game that is nowhere near being where it was in 2016. This is 2022, the game needs to represent that, not 2016.
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Oh, and you think if BHVR does away with camping and tunneling it will get better ? 🤣
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"can't"
They can remove the grabbing while unhooking, make bubba unable to down more than 1 survivor during a chainsaw sweep, make the new perk that stops the struggle bar basekit (or some version of it), they can make it so that the struggle bar is paused for a few seconds when the killer hits the survivor on the hook. They can do many things.
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Yeah because they could improve other parts about killer. Like giving everyone some type of mobility ability. Improving specific killers who need it, rather than giving universal buffs that only make killers who dont need it stronger... etc etc.
Currently I am willing to bet that because of Camping/Tunneling they aren't able to buff killers in some way.
Unlike you, I think change is good, when it is balanced, that is.
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Sorry, but I need to be able to make my own decisions in the game as a killer. It doesn't matter what play style (2016 or 2022) I follow
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Maybe dbd should just be a 3v1 game, because obviously the maps arent getting any better.
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Hmm. Is playing normally or camping/tunneling worth more BP?
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Yes they can, just dont have the balls and/or don't want to have to read even more crying on this killer sided forum if they did.
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yes, they can and that comes under the heading "LIMIT", which I also think is good !
But they should not abolish camping, that's all I want to say.
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There is a reason why game developers adjust and change their games. They want the players to have the best intended experience possible, and usually it is a positive experience. DBD is no exception.
I will reiterate... if they changed Camping and Tunneling in a way where it almost didn't exist WHILE improving other parts of killer which DO feel much more rewarding (chasing, mind-gaming), more map control via mobility or otherwise, more use of the environment to create more interesting interactions with survivors... etc All of that alone trumps any camping and tunneling you seem to be attached to.
You are wanting to keep the old stuff... old. While many of us that also play killer want the old stuff new and improved.
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The game can disincentivise camping/tunnelling but I think these actions are basically impossible for the devs to remove.
Some of the ideas people suggest are too damaging to a killer’s agency. Plus if a survivor team has 2/3 really good loopers and 1/2 poor ones it makes absolutely no sense for the killer to try and spread the hooks evenly. Even with the killer buffs and extra ten seconds, if you try and play as nicely as possible by spreading the hooks around and get caught in chases with good loopers and don’t switch targets because you want to be a “nice” killer you will often lose the game.
There’s another issue as well in that the consensus seems to be that it’s acceptable to camp/tunnel at certain parts of the game but not at others. Even if we all agree on that, how can the devs design the game around that sort of etiquette? Implement a camping/tunnel recognition system for when the killer is struggling with nobody sacrificed and there’s only one generator left to repair? Ok, you get to camp the hook now. It just doesn’t work.
Probably the best changes would be to increase base kit BT, revert DS to 5 secs, remove hook grabs and if the killer is insanely close to the hooked survivor then maybe buff repair speeds. But any more than that would be too much.
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That's all true and also belongs in the LIMIT section, which I think is absolutely fine.
But you also forget that there are many players who like to tunnel and camp. What about them? They like that style of play (especially newbies). That should be taken into account
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