DeadByDaylight is Now Inarguably Pay To Win
I own all the DLC so this isn't really something I give a hoot about but the game is 100% without a doubt pay to win. Especially so with Reassurance being a 100% effective counter to camping.
The game has always been pay to win, but with the current state of the meta there are hardly any perks at all that you don't have to pay for.
inb4: shrine of secrets blah blah blah, iridescent shards, blah blah blah
New perks can take upwards of a year (if not longer) to show up in the shrine of secrets. That is de facto pay to win. Iridescent shards are fair for original killers, but if recent rumors are true we are going to be getting quite many licensed DLCs in the future. There are plenty of good perks that are on licensed killers too and having to wait upwards of a year to obtain their perks (in a game you already paid for) does not make it any less pay to win.
Couple this with the fact that the grind reduction did not reduce the grind at all (and at the same time actually made it feel worse by removing BBQ and WGLF) while I think this new chapter is great, there is still plenty more work for BHVR to do.
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IMO the shrine is pretty outdated considering the number of killers and survivors, no disagreement there. I’d like to see a much larger selection or an entirely different mechanism.
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Though TBF on the pay to win front, the strongest killer is free.
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Releasing an anti-camping perk behind a paywall exactly at the time when the whole survivor playerbase is complaining about camping, while not introducing any other anti-camping change in the same patch, that is an actual d*ck move I agree
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It would be cool if you could just straight up buy any perk you want with iri shards, and the shrine was just perks on sale. It would still be much faster to just buy the character and prestige them, but having the option would be nice if you don't want to drop money to get two characters you're not going to play and 5 perks you don't want to use when all you want is Call of Brine.
It wasn't too long ago that the game was pay to skip too, when BBQ had double bloodpoints and pre-rework Bubba was easily the worst killer in the game.
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No disagreement from me on that. The shrine is completely inadequate given the number of perks in the system.
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Bt
unbreakable
off the record
Coh
Deliverance .
Sprint burst
Lithe
Kindred
Inner healing
Dead hard
Over Charge
Pentamento
Devour hope
Sloppy
Jolt
Fear monger
Bamboozle
Pain renanonce
Dead man's switch
All of these are original chapters that you can earn
There are some thing can be pay for better results but this game never ensures. Win
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The fact that Off the record and DS (yeah I know it's bad currently, but still) are behind paywalls is pretty disgusting. I've always believed that locking perks behind DLC for offsetting some of the more unfun strategies is poor show. This will no doubt get worse the longer the game goes on.
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wow thats great bud but guess how many perks there are in the game (its more than 15)
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It's made worse by the fact certain base free perks like Self Care were utterly gutted while paid Circle of Healing gets untouched because usage numbers are everything amirite? Let's ignore that you only need one Circle of Healing per team.
Shrine of Secrets is indeed outdated. Not to mention certain perks show up tons of times and others I've yet to see, even ones that are old. If it rotated every day like it during the Masquerade fine, but it doesn't. It could rotate every day and you've got a week to take what you want.
In regards to camping/tunneling. Honestly this is a design problem at its very core. There's a lot of this in general honestly. Slugging when 2 are left to prevent hatch then the counterplaying being hiding hoping the other guy dies first. This is all design problems. It's not entirely the fault of the players trying to win with broken, unfun game design. Rather then try experimental solutions on PTB they just wring their hands and go 'it's too hard' and release band aid perks like this that are utterly useless if the given situation doesn't occur.
There are barely enough perk slots now to use all the band aid fix perks. Especially if you count Kindred as a band aid for solo queue issues.
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Buy or git gud
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I named the metta picks for most builds that aren't licensed
Ohh I forgot iron will and spirit fury
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I bet most newbie survivors wish they can learn to loops from staying on hook and hit of hook
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ok
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I feel like we are starting to use the term “pay 2 win” loosely here, this is more like “pay 2 have fun” than “pay 2 win” as it trashed camping, but if the killer isn’t camping you are really only gonna use it when looping around hook or to give yourself time to unhook a survivor
Not defending BHVR btw, I find it annoying how they added an anti-camp perk to try and band-aid camping even though they should give out actual ingame counters to camping as alot of killers are great at camping hooks
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This is how devs support their live service. If you don't want to pay then accept the wait time for a chance to pick it up freely. While not accessible immediately to everyone, it is eventually atleast.
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I got two problems with this stance:
1) some of the strongest meta perks right now, ie OTR and CoH can be rather easily acquired by buying the corresponding survivors via shards. Its not that difficult and you can male a plan of which ones to buy etc.
2) While Reassurance is a pretty strong anti-camping tool, its not a personal tool, like OTR, but a support tool for another survivor, like BT. Even if you don't buy the 2nd RE DLC, you will invariably benefit from a lot of other survivors running Reassurance, so isn't that actually quite meta-meta? Them reassuring you that all will be well in the end?
So while I understand that some players might be miffed that they are somewhat missing out, dbd is still extremely generous and fair with its licensed vs OG content, the latter can be acquired with some elbow grease without any RNG or scummy schemes involved.
So while I occasionally bash BHVR pretty hard for some of their questionable decisions, this ain't non of them.
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If this game was pay 2 win wouldn't people be 4king or getting 4 escapes the majority of the matches?
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To be fair, the Iri Shard grind is NOT fast.
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Realistically the perk should have been made an in game mechanic that all players can use, or at the very least added as a general perk not tied to any chapter. That way anyone can get it through the bloodweb
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I'm more concerned with the fact that their most effective solution to camping to-date is locked behind a paywall, rather than the fact that multiple meta perks are held within paid DLC.
The former feels like a cheap tactic to take my money, while the latter is simply a byproduct of an ever expanding multiplayer game
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I mean thats true but it isnt that slow i bought dredge last week and im halfway to my next character playing a couple hours a night on average
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Is the game playable right now? Yes
Will the game become unplayable for those after the DLC releases? No
therefore it is not pay to win.
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Playing =/= winning.
?????
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theres a double exp event going on rn
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Usually when people bring up Pay to Win they are making an argument that you are at an advantage if you spend money on the game. This unfortunately is true as you cannot get licensed killers without spending money. Perks are very important in this game unfortunately, and having them locked behind real money purchases, it will always be a pay to win game. It is no where near as bad as many pay to win games, but it is one nonetheless.
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Technically hasnt it always been pay to win, I mean up until the last patch, DS was the defacto meta perk and it is locked behind a paywall.
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Yes its always been p2w. I've seen BHVR employees (I think it was Mandy specifically) say the game is not P2W because of the Shrine and Iri Shards but with Reassurance that is not true. We will not likely see that park in the Shrine for an entire year... if not more.
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Ok so using reassurance as the example how am i winning games now if its not in the game yet, doesn't that effectively mean its not pay to win.
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Pay2Win does not mean pay to literally win. It means pay to have an advantage. Please don't bother arguing semantics, its boring as hell and not relevant to the conversation at all.
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the shrine should have all perks available at it 24/7 and be purchasable for +- the same price they are available rn.
Plus there should be an extra slot which allows to trade iri shards for bloodpoints but at higher rate than now or before, smth like 2000 shards = 500k bloodpoints.
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Imagine a company that made a game to make them money........IMAGINE the companies that created the original killers wanting to be paid for the use of their material......
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It takes about 24 hours of gameplay for 9K shards.
Assuming you buy no teachables from the Shrine or skins, it will take you about 550 hours to unlock every "free" character.
This does not account for BP or getting their perks.
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Yes, hiding Reassurance behind a $11.99 pay wall might not seem ideal but Behaviour could do much worse. For example they could have made iridescent shards much harder to earn and what can be bought with them could be priced higher which would effectively force more people to have to buy non-licensed chapters and cosmetics with real money.
I haven't spent any money on DbD since the first RE chapter dropped and I most certainly don't feel left behind.
That being said, the Shrine of Secrets has seriously fallen behind. There are 213 perks in the game, soon to be 222. They could make all the perks from free base game characters stop appearing (=36) and make 7 perks appear in the Shrine every week and it still wouldn't hold a candle to how much better your odds of getting an actual perk you wanted in the Shrine in 2019. None of Pinhead's or Sadako's perks have appeared in the Shrine yet.
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Well, if the killer doesn’t camp is better not to bring the perk
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Shattered Hope is general pool, why the hell isn't Reassurance?
That's basically all I have to say. BHVR can release new general pool perks, and they did after all the complaints about not being able to permanently break boons. They're releasing a second RE chapter because the first one sold crazy well, so there's no need for them to try to entice players to buy it by including their band-aid fix for camping killers. Reassurance has no business being behind any paywall.
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Idk bro…maybe slightly? But I don’t see the licensed perks as being that much of an impact. As long as it’s not something egregious that you would find on a free to play mobile game, I’m ok with the way things are. But then again, I do own every DLC. 😂
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he listed the meta ones, 80% of the perks in the game are pretty much useless. + you seem to forget kinship a free version of reassurence.
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They should have4 perks of survivor and 4 perks of killer
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Dbd is definetly pay to win. It always has been. Mettle of man on release, pain resonance, after the heavy slinger nerfs they rush to make dead mans switch an auto equip perk. But here comes the hard reality what are you going to do about it. Youll all pay for the reassurance privilage.
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Nothing is pay to win by your definition. If you hold an advantage over your allies or opponent that cannot be accessed outside of money its pay to win.
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When they nerfed Self-Care, but DIDN'T remove the FAR SUPERIOR self-care power from Circle of Healing, that should've been all the evidence anybody needs to prove that the game is Pay to Win.
Gotta sell those Mikaelas! Even if Circle of Healing killed off the viability of half of their killer cast.
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Players - Why don't BHVR release meta shakeup strong perks?
Also Players - This game is pay to win.
I'm glad I don't work for a game company.
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Always has been
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That us true but like a fifth of the perks I said come with the base game characters
So by the time you unlock the teachable perks shouldhave like 2 or 3 new. People
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No, are crazy!? Putting aside how useful it is against killers that camp, if you solo q and happen to be teamed up with a 3 man of trolls, they could all keep you on the hook forever. At that point, not even a nice killer could help you. Keep it as a perk, don't make it base kit.
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Dead by Daylight is not "Pay to Win". It is "Pay to Play More".
If you buy some survivors/killers you will have perks that will give you more match time to get a little amount of bloodpoints.
I am pretty sure that "Pay to Play on Anticheat Protected Servers" could be on the table because money is the only thing that matters.
I agree that trying to balance things with perks behind a paywall is a really unscrupulous BeHaViouR.
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You are not wrong, yet in a way you are wrong.
I look at DbD as it isn't so much pay to win. It is pay to play. They have earned your money because you can play new content for years and years past and years and years to come. You aren't supporting lootboxes, which is the biggest concern with p2w, you are supporting new content for a game you enjoy playing. If you aren't supporting them with money, they also need numbers. So if you play the game you are still supporting it by being a potential bag-of-money-waiting-to-be-milked, and you are filling up those queues for all the other bags and potential bags.
So you have to ask yourself, 'Do you enjoy the game?' If you do, support it, or else you won't get to play it because it is an entirely online game that will be shut off someday.
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Use your brain Seth. Do you think I really mean you can pay money to instantly win? No. You pay to have an advantage. Paying $15 for the Wesker DLC at launch will give you a direct advantage against campers that someone who does not spend the $15 will not have for at least a year.
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Play more puzzle games sandman. You will see that those two statements are not contradictory.
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