Can We Talk About How Bad the Grind Is?
Seriously.
With the removal of WGLF and BBQ, the Grind has gotten way worse. Every Survivor game nets you maybe 20K points which is a couple blood web nodes. It takes more BP to even get to Level 50 AND there's a tax to Prestige (which is forced on you).
Plus, those "incentives" that they hyped up? Oh yeah, those aren't gonna be here for another month. Sorry, here's 50K BP. The rewards for these events are pathetic and almost insulting.
It's way worse for new players AND it feels like actual garbage to know it'll take you several games to even level up once.
Should've made BBQ and WGLF bloodpoint bonuses base-kit.
Comments
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I think the biggest problem is that the grind is only reduced if you play multiple characters. If you only play a single character/killer, then the grind actually INCREASED for you, and since most survivors only play 1 or 2 characters because they are all just a skin, it is really shown in the survivor side of things.
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Even with that, it's only really reduced if you want every perk on every Survivor and Killer.
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Even if you want all the perks on just half of the characters, the new system is a win in that regard. I was after all perks on all characters, and the update essentially finished the job for me, so I have an overall positive feeling. If you do want all persk on all characters, the new system is a titanic improvement.
The new big pain point for me is in stockpiling rare+ addons and offerings. Levels 1-35 are pretty much flushing BP as it is now.
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I don't see how it's would be increased for that situation. Don't need to take every character to prestige 3. Just get them to prestige 1 to unlock the tier 1 perks on everyone then just buy the tier 2/3 perks on your main survivors.
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Correct, but before you only had to get the character to level 40, which generally took around 1 million bloodpoints. Now you have to take them to 50 and prestige them once. Once you hit 40, the average bloodweb costs 50k, prestige costs 20k. So now you are adding an additional 520k to the original. AND you don't have bonuses from WGLF or BBQ to reduce the grind. So it costs more bloodpoints, and you get less per game.
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Agreed. The "nerf" to the grind only applies if you play multiple killers. New players, especially players who are new to survivor, now have to prestige each character three times before getting their perks. Taking even more time and bloodpoints than it did before.
It's amazing how bad Behaviour is at actually addressing the problems in their game.
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They say that they reduced the grind, but in reality they rearranged the deck chairs to make it seem like it's better, when it's really not. There's a prestige tax, the Shrine is nerfed, it effectively costs more to unlock a character's perks, and BP-boosting perks have been redesigned. But hey, those category caps are 10,000 now instead of 8,000. They need to just remove perk tiers and increase BP intake like 200%. Make the amount we get from Bloodhunt events the NORM.
They seem like they are just really unreasonably scared of upsetting the apple cart in terms of keeping players engaged with the game, like they think people are gonna run out of things to do and stop playing or something. So their solution is to try nothing substantial. Just do it and see what happens, FFS.
In summary...
They:
- Gave us a one-time boost that unlocked all perks on already-prestiged (and very well-developed) characters. This was nice, but it's also not relevant to newer players, and it was a one-and-done thing.
- Increased the Bloodpoint softcap by 1,000,000.
- Raised the four category caps from 8,000 to 10,000 each.
- Added a role-based matchmaking BP incentive (it's been broken this entire time, but this is a positive in the long-term).
They also:
- Took away the BP bonuses on Barbecue & Chili, and We're Gonna Live Forever.
- Effectively raised the threshold to unlock a character's teachable perks from level 40 to level 51.
- Add a 20,000 BP prestige tax for each loop.
- Nerfed the Shrine of Secrets such that it costs an exorbitant amount of Iridescent Shards to unlock a single perk -- and reduced its Bloodpoint conversion by 33%.
- Changed the prestige system, such that it requires three full loops (roughly 4.8 million BP) in order to perma-unlock a character's tier 3 perks for all characters.
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I'm forever baffled why they're so afraid of actually reducing the grind. It's not like it would even remotely threaten to allow players to race through the full content unlock. Hah... only BHVR would find ways to add fees and reduce bloodpoint gain during a grind reduction.
I already had all the perks I wanted. Sure, it's nice having a build ready when a new character drops, but otherwise, all this means for me is that I'm getting half the bloodpoints I used to when I play killer. At least survivor BP gain was always miserable... more fool me for thinking that was going to change.
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You have to prestige a character three times to get their tier 3 perks, to get the tier 1s, you just have to prestige once. Once on the characters you want them on, you can bump them up to tier 3 pretty quickly, a lot more so than running through 100 more levels.
If you're P3ing every character just for their perks, you're being really inefficient about it.
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There was no real reason imo to remove bp bonuses, it's not like they where just given to you, you had to actually earn them via hooking or unhooking
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Imo the goal wasn't to reduce the grind, it was to expand it. Now all the players that had P3'd everyone have 91 more prestige levels to grind per character. More grind = more addiction = more money.
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No because it costs like 500K more to GET to P1 than it did to get to Level 40 before.
You still have to go through RNG to get the perks you want AND the Bloodwebs cost more AND you get WAY less per game.
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Follow-up post to crunch some numbers. Let's say you are a hardcore (but not completely crazy) player who has all teachable perks unlocked, and like, a handful of characters maxed out with full perk inventories.
Under the old system, this is what you would have to do in order to get your hands on a single new character's perks:
- Level the new character to 40, which costs roughly 1.1 million BP if you are being efficient.
- Churn through a minimum of five Bloodwebs on your advanced character. This costs about 300,000 BP per character you want to do this with.
- Assuming one survivor and one killer in a chapter, this is a total cost of ~2.8 million BP, plus an extra 300,000 for every character beyond the first survivor + killer that you want to use the new perks on.
Now, in the new system, you have two options:
- Do roughly the same thing, except now it costs roughly 1.6 million BP for a full prestige loop on each new character. Even in the most BP-friendly circumstance (i.e., freshly prestiged mains with short Bloodwebs), you're looking at a minimum of about 90,000 BP per character to unlock ranks 2-3 of each new perk. So, assuming a chapter with one new survivor and one new killer, that is a total cost of ~3.4 million BP, plus a MINIMUM of an extra 90,000 BP for every character beyond the first.
- Just get the new characters to prestige 3, which is gonna cost roughly ~4.8 million BP apiece (that's ~9.6 million for a new chapter with one survivor + one killer).
THIS IS NOT BETTER. THIS IS WORSE.
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Not the case at all. If you want to try out a new killer then having all perks already unlocked will massively help with finding a playstyle that you like. Prestiging the other killers three times is still daunting for new players. But at least the value you get for that increases with each new killer you try.
The alternative that you suggest to is only unlock each character's tier one perks is much more grindy. And forces you to stockpile bloodpoints each time a new character is released so you can level up all of the perks that you have unlocked.
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I wish they would just come out and be straight with us about this if it's the case. If their business decision is "Don't actually let players get stuff faster, because there's some sort of metric-driven engagement reason for it" then just tell us that. OWN THAT DECISION. And if that's not the case, tell us, because that's definitely what it seems like, absent any other candid information.
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I always used to enjoy killer for getting lot of bp but for now that is not possible if there is no cakes.
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I have almost 4,000 hours in this game. I've played since 2018, I had every teachable perk unlocked before the patch (and I P1'd all non-main killers and about half my non-main survivors as patch prep). I am the type of person who caps my BP and tactically leaves finished tome challenges unpopped to prep for new patches and unlocking new perks quickly. I am meticulous about it, and yet I have not and will never run out of stuff to do. It's an insane fear for them to have.
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Here are some ideas. And I don't just mean one of them, I mean all of them at once. Hand out BP like candy on Halloween.
- Remove perk tiers.
- Make base BP gain like 200% of what it currently is.
- Keep whatever per-match cap, but uncap individual categories, so that I can earn all 40k or whatever from getting chased.
- Offer a 50,000 BP login bonus every day.
- Make the former BBQ and WGLF Bloodpoint bonuses a base kit thing that rewards the respective behaviors (hooking a survivor for the first time, or unhooking a survivor safely).
- Reduce prestige rollover to something lower -- like level 30 or something like that.
- Remove the 20,000 BP prestige tax.
- Have a Bloodhunt event on the first weekend of every month (or some other consistent, designated period).
- Revert the Shrine's BP conversion to the previous amount.
- Increase grade rewards.
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The grind has been reduced. Not enough, but it has been reduced.
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There are problems when this is talked about specifics... like for a certain group of players
Plus if they left the actual Prestiging to be free (cause it's forced now anyways) it would have been better
All's I can say is to at least save 250,000 BP as a last resort... but yea there are problems with Presiging with how the game is right now
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BHVR figured out a way to have their cake and eat it. They clearly understand that grind keeps many people playing. I'm also pretty sure at one point, we were straight up told that BHVR had things like the BP cap and such to stop people from breezing through the new content in less than a week.
So what they did was reduced the grind for what's most important for gameplay: Perks, making it much easier for players to get perks across all their characters
But in doing so, they doubled the amount of time it takes to get the non-essential things such as bloody outfits and such. This means that completionists will be investing more time in the game than they were previously.
Think about it:
If I just want all the new RE perks on everyone, I need to either P1 them all and get lvls 2 and 3 normally on my survs or P3 them
But if I want their bloody outfits I have to not only do that + but 3 extra prestige levels.
And if I want their perk charms + an extra 3 prestige levels
The 'prestige tax' is also a deliberate decision as well, it doesn't need to be there but it's 100% to slow down people from breezing through the content quickly
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I remember several people and myself telling people this wasn't a grind reduction. People refused to believe it though.
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My mom used to tell me to focus on my next step instead of the entire journey when I would complain about walking a long distance. It applies to DBD quite nicely.
Focus on the unlocks in front of you and then worry about the next unlock. Plan it out like a grand strategy game.
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Well it is and it isn't
Like if you only care about perks, it's def superior to the old system. Having to unlock teachables then painstakingly going from character to character was tedious. I much prefer the new way of doing it
Problem is they used that as justification for spreading the content out - I.E Bloody cosmetics being P4 to P6 and the charms being P7 to P9
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'Maining' a survivor was a symptom of the old system. It used to be more efficient to just get the bare minimum on every survivor then pile everything into your main to get them all of the perks.
But now it's more efficient to spread it around and play a range of survivors. You don't need to stick to just one anymore, because everyone gets every perk you unlock. This makes dailies easier too as uou can jump on the required survivor and go with all your meta perks.
When they say this is reducing the grind, it's because every prestige automatically unlocks 3 perks on 30 other characters.
Thats 3 x 3,000 x 30 = 270,000
You save 270,000 just on the perk nodes alone. When you factor in the whole bloodwebs required to reach those nodes you're looking at ten times that much.
This means that 20k prestige "tax" is saving you about 3 million BP.
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I genuinely don't understand why the devs are being so stubborn about it.
Devs: "We've reduced the grind."
Players: "How? This is worse than it was before."
Devs: "No."
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I cant find the motivation to play any more. It doesnt really feel like my time is being rewarded as far as BP gains. Especially in the current climate where i can wait ages to get a killer game for an ok amount of BP or get a quick solo q game where at least 1 person DCs, the game tanks, n only walk away with a few thousand BP. Its just demoralizing. I would play a lot more if BPs were closer to what we see in events.
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What they should do imo:
#1. Give 1000 bp per minute of the match up to 10k. Meaning a 5 minute match you get tunneled out or gens get rushed you earn an extra 5000 bp. Not much, but it's something.
#2. Give survivors bp for staying on hook. It really sucks if you spend half the match on hook and earn bp only in chaser.
#3. Increase bp earnings across the board by 25%> with the cap going up, so should how much you earn
#4. Giving 30k bp on login everyday
#5. Double the bp for daily challenges.
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My brother in Christ I have everything unlocked.
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I just want to make sure I understand something,
If you Prestige a character to level 1, does that mean that their teachables are now unlocked on all characters?
I understand that Tier 1 is unlocked on all character, but if you spend points on that character's bloodweb are you able to level that perk up to Tier 3? Even if the character whose teachable it is is only Prestige 1?
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Yeah, you can level them up in other bloodwebs, you have to prestige 1 to unlock them in the bloodweb, and you get the level 1 version for free.
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It's unbearable and the reason I mostly stopped playing until we at least get the incentives back. Even then I don't think it will be enough. I played three games yesterday and just gave up after that because of how low the bloodpoint gains were. Like I have to deal with a significantly harder solo queue experience AND I get less bloodpoints as well? No thanks Behavior. I get that they want to keep people grinding but there's a such thing as too much grind. Would it really be a bad thing to make the items in the blood web cost a bit less? The game isn't going to crash and burn if you do something like reduce brown items from 3000 to 2000. Someone on reddit calculated how many games you'd need to play at max BPs in order to get the blood cosmetics in the upcoming chapter. I don't remember the exacts but it was an absurd number. Like in the 600+ range I believe.
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I feel bad for new players, I’d hate to be them.
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Yes, you can level up teachable perks on al characters. If you have maxed out all perks on a character, then prestige 1 a new character, you can easily get them to tier 3 on another character.
I just think there are far too many useless objects in the survivor bloodweb.
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It’s pretty insane how stingy they truly are with bps, I’d bet the percentage of people with all max perks on all characters isn’t too high, and to top it off bloody party streamers are so rare, you see them 1/10 blood webs. I don’t understand their motives, they literally go out of their way to make the game as little fun as possible
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we get less BP gain after matches now too which makes the grind feel even worst.
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I would still have goals related to gathering addons and items on characters that are low in inventory.
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Did you read any of this thread? I put the math there for you. The grind has not been reduced, that's just objectively not true.
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Dude they reduced the grind by 75% they even said so.
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Well, they also told us 60 FPS would be on Xbox One and PS4 by the end of 2019.
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As someone who just moved to PC and had to start again, the grind feels genuinely terrible. I got Meg to 50 pretty fast so I could have sprint burst for everyone and couldn't even get it to tier 2 on my Yui until the late level 40's. BBQ and WGLF bloodpoint gains need to be base kit in my opinion, it's such a joke right now
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you have the power to change things... you know how? stop playing the game since this is the only way that devs understand that things aren't going well... if you kept criticize them but still playing the game, they won't have reasons to change things...
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Everyone knows the 75% grind reduction is a lie. It was apparent when they tried adding a mandatory prestige tax. This system only serves to benefit people who've already put in the grind for years. This failure of a system creates a scarcity of certain rarity items and it was band aided by increasing the rarity on higher prestiges. Not only does this make the blood web more expensive over time, people now have to invest even more on a character to ensure they have a steady supply of an item. You think the bubba main since 2019 cares he may see less award winning chili on the web until p60? No, they probably have about 1000+ add ons in reserve.
And regarding having rarer items on higher prestige, killers who have their best add ons at yellow or brown will suffer because now they get less effective add ons which happen to be higher rarity. And what of event items that are in brown rarity. Knowing bhvr someone higher presitge woukd get punished and see event items less often.
Point is BHVR cannot be trusted to make a system that works.
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On top of it all...
I can't even reach 20k BP in my games anymore because every killer is playing like their lives depend on a 4k.
Half of all my games are 15-16k bp, and the unfortunate few times I'm first chase its a whopping 5-9k bp for me!
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Don't their perks still become teachable at level 30, 35, and 40?
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Honestly I kinda prefer the old system. I had no issue with prestige since it was an optional grind and being able to get whichever teachables you wanted was great (For example I only had Dwight level 30 for bond)
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No. That was replaced with their perk tiers being unlocked at prestige levels.
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Perks may be found on other characters' Bloodwebs once at least tier 1 has been unlocked. Tier 1 of all perks gets unlocked at prestige 1, so instead of 30/35/40, the "teachable perk" mechanic has effectively shifted to level 51.
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That changes everything.
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Even for players who played the game for a while, it's still pretty bad. I don't know why they thought not raising bp gain was a good idea.
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