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What happened to survivors?
What happened to survivor it just seems so unenjoyable and has been feeling that way for awhile now... Killer isn't much fun either rarely do you find competent seal team 6 SWF comps anymore and if you do the match seems long and drawn out.
Survivors have it rough right out the box being only a skin to them and nothing more no uniqueness or gain to playing another survivor really and when they lose perks it hurts when they've obstacles after obstacles it hurts even more as you reach that wall. Where you can't progress until you get perks that counters situation where you need it.
I'll give you an example if you do not have a anti camp tunneling build you're just SOS and have to put up with it and if you don't have a gen jockey build you're dead weight to the team or a looping build you're dead weight.
Survivors have to commit to build no mix matching perks anymore really
. You do not get to get the survivors experience until you hit iridescent where your team will have more focused builds on top of knowing what to do... but it's still hard tedious
Killers on other hand have flexibility and the chance to entirely change how they want to play and have more flexibility with perks and powers to set the games tone
Comments
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The nice thing about perks like reassurance though, is you tend to get value from it even if no one is running it. Remember when DS was good? Killers always left you slugged or just straight up didn't attempt to tunnel. Good killers respect good perks even if no one in the game has it.
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Actually I do see sweaty SWFs all the time. It's 9/10 matches when I play Demogorgon, 7/10 matches for all my other killers.
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Gens take longer, killers are stronger and there are less tools in a survivors arsenal to help them stay alive. Despite all this killers are still camping and tunnelling. I'm not having a good time.
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Having to run perks to counter tunneling and camping just makes the game feel more limited
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Survivors are frustrated to be forced to take on specific one dimensional builds to be useful to the team, and killers are frustrated to not see more variety in their opponents.
Had a Demo DCing yesterday because of Balanced Landing, got mad in endgame chat that "every survivor runs the same damn build" and that they regretted old Dead Hard meta because at least that was "f-ing easy to counter".
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As a end game killer camper, because no other ways you know ? I absolutely don't care about this perk, for most reasons;
- mostly of the time, i got an endgame build (rancor, best for the end, forced penance and a variable utility perk), i usually have my 8 stacks on bfte, the obssession don't even dare to show up or only to taunt me, but i don't budge, i am patient, so it don't work, funnier is when i also got bloodwarden. Be assured i WILL got one of them, altrusim is just the worse idea ever when i run this build, it happened tons of times i got like 5 or more free hooks and 1-4 kills for free at endgame. I play mostly normal in the game, but chill, and at end, survs think i am a noob, they feel overconfident and i destroy them freely because i builded my stacks strategicaly, knowing i can hit the obssession with nemesis and demogorgon without loosing stacks btw. I, most of the time, got insulted in end game tchat, and it happen some times they flame eachothers, they are just tilted because they thought it was going to be an easy win, but nope.
- The new perk from wesker is better than forced penance and is a real threat for you, force you to open the gates sooner.
- I am very, very patient.
But anyway, there should be a limit on this perk to not have obvious abuses by SWF.
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My understanding of survivor is that survivor use to be the power role. It was overwhelmingly more powerful and easier then killer. Now this wasn't exactly good, as this is where the idea of bullying comes from, as it doesn't feel good when a group gangs up on one side even if they are just playing the game. So the devs, started making countless changes to survivors to make it harder, they nerfed the majority of loops, nerfed a bunch of strong perks and refused to introduce more meta changing perks, and nerfed toolboxes and flashlights to the point that they aren't really useful unless you bring them in yourself, looting them from chests is a waste of time. This was all done for the sake of balance, and balance wise I actually supported most of these changes.
However the effect of this is that survivor is no longer causal friendly, its harder and requires far more focus. Survivors who say that the new patch made survivor unwinnable, are quite honestly just not good at the game. Survivor is very winnable, but you have to play way more serious, at least as serious as killers do. The problem with this, is a at its core.. survivor sucks. You know what hardcore survivor is? Gen simulator. Actual gen simulator, just doing a progress bar and leaving. Its not good, and now you need all of your teammates doing this the whole time. It use to be, why bother with half the perks for survivors as most of them are jokes. Now ruining half the perks is almost considered game throwing. The draw for survivor I found was the far more casualness of it compared to killer. Now you need to be focused and serious every match and its resulting in burnout. People are going into matches, getting a quick chase, go down, an then quit and move onto the next one.
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Survivor is fine if you get matched with equally skilled players. I sometimes will leave if someone has 0 prestige levels. I decided I'd trust matchmaking and stayed in a lobby where someone had 0 prestige. They were getting instantly downed by t2 meyers. They would run through jungle gyms without using the pallet. We basically had to 3 man the game and we still got 2 people out. I have no idea why matchmaking in this game is so bad but somehow you can get really new players with really good people and it's stupid.
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There is a thing i don't get, survs complain about being "casuals who can't play", but here, i wonder where they were when i played before the patch, from my perspective "casuals" barely even existed.
This is why i have true doubts about them simply being "casuals".
Paradoxaly, after the patch, i seem to effectively go against a way much casuals, wich is great ofc, more fun.
This make me conclude there isn't that much casuals, or there is a bunch BUT they got too much babysited with overpowerful perks.
Also, there is complains about "bruh, i need to choose the same perks to have a chance to escape, 50% of the survs perks are trash tier blahblahblah"
Dude, you REALLY think it's different for us killers ? that's exactly the same ! I plead for now years for a total rework of the perks system, there is a way too much perks, they multiply over time, and we are still at 4 perks slots, what's the point ? Having 3k perks, most of them being useless because not good enough or just because they are factualy useless ? but still 4slots ? I also plead for special slots reserved for hex, even if they nerf the hex, at least, loosing "hex perks" in less than 30sec is not going to be a huge concern anymore, and it offer more gameplay to survs and killers.
Just cut the number of perks by half by combining them, end of story.
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Casually playing is no longer a option because now if you want to win you've to make a build for it and be hyper focused
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Here's my advice if you want a better survivor and SoloQ experience dodge low prestige survivors you're probably gonna tell me prestige doesn't mean anything,I used to think that Prestige meant nothing at first it was just recently introduced so theres no reason to pay attention to your teammates's prestige level.
After a few games with high prestige survivors my SoloQ experience has been way more enjoyable you're actually playing with teamates who uses their brains and are not so clueless like the low prestige one.
Even if we lose the game it's fine because at least we didn't die at 4 gens because of a clueless teammate who's just braindead and is the weak link in the team killers will always go for the bad looper and the clueless survivors that keep doing stupid plays.
So yes if you guys want a better SoloQ survivor experience keep dodging lobbies until you find some mid/high prestige survivors trust me your games are gonna be way more FUN and enjoyable even if the killer gets a 4k it's fine because I still enjoyed the match and all of us played well.
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Here is my solution: just don't be a meta slave and play any build that you feel like.
If you are already good at looping and evading the killer then you will do good with any other build, but also enjoy yourself with some fun builds.
If not, then you probably have more fun while learning, then as if you rely on meta only builds that constrain you.
Of course, if you like the meta gameplay, more power to you. But you should never run a perk because you feel like "you have to".
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Is it really that binary, either play those meta perks or get face camped every game?
I got other experiences. Of coursecI get camped every once in a while, but that's often a short affair, I either die to a quick 1-2-3 combo or I get away and do something cool elsewhere.
But I want tp play my Blastmine/Head-On/Quick'n'Quiet build most of the time :) So I take that occasional camping into account.
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I don't know about you but when I play dead by daylight I want to play the game just not sit on a gennafter gen for free cause a killer is face camping nor do I want to come out of a lobby simulator and get face camped myself . Thats not playing the game at all
I do not run meta builds and know that if I'm caught I'm out the game on first hook.
My build is Residual Manifest,Blast mine, Windows and lithe for those who ask.
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If you want to win you should be putting some effort into doing so. The fact that people were so used to being able to casually win against their opponents was a problem.
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I mix and match perks all the time and I still level up and have fun. I don't follow the strict, you have to have this type of perk build, anymore. I bring what I want, do what I want (while being an asset to the team of course), and no one says anything bad to me. Then again if you play with console players like me 24/7 they can't say anything to you anyway! Just do what you want in the game and have fun while doing it, you paid for it after all :)
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Didn’t someone suggest once in the past that passive abilities for each survivor would make them more enjoyable?
Dwight: he’s a leader right? So maybe you can always see his aura when you play with a Dwight.
Meg: an athlete recovers faster from exhaustion? Or moves faster while running by like 2%?
Claudette: a botanist/ scientist passively has more efficiency at healing with medkits? Or just built-in passive healing efficiency.
Jake: he’s a lone wolf; a survivor. When near the killer 16m and not in a chase his survival instincts kick in. He’s quiet and leaves no blood trails. (Idk that could be a perk but maybe you guys will have better ideas).
thoughts? I think this would make survivors more relatable and fun
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It's not about casually winning it's more about being able to hop on and play without being pressured committed to a build or having to grind for perks for those who only play a few hours a day
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Being on the hook is playing the game. Survivor gameplay doesn't stop at the hook.
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Survivors still have the ability to attempt to unhook themselves and they have skill checks to hit in 2nd stage. Those are interactions with a controller.
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Agreed, because now killers are not used to casually win. They are forced to turn on their monitor and use headphones!
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If i agree with you, this mean i agree to say that survs can do nothing without op perks, and killer got easy life...this is ridiculous.
First, i played vs enough good survs to know that a good surv don't need any perk to make you run a lot, and i truly mean a lot.
Plus, you now got a base kit borrow time, and face camp is easily counterable, if it's really a face camp, you can just do gens, or go at 2 or 3 survs to help.
Also, i did enough games post-patch to know that survs can still do gens and flee easily for the good ones. Maps offerings were already a usual, this didn't changed, and the two last maps are not fun to play on as killer, the artist one is way too huge, and the dredge one got a way too strong loop in main building who miss a breakable wall between the windows.
Survs now need to play better, and killers can finaly have fun without being in a endless suffering from bullying. end of story
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The only abuse of the new perk I can think of right now that will probably happen a few times. Is if a group of 3 people continually use it on the random 4th person to keep them on a hook the whole game, just for the giggles.
I do not agree however, that using it against a camping killer is abuse in anyway. All the killer has to do to avoid a SWF getting use out of reassurance, is to just not camp.
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Well, that is false. Sorry you cannot think of other uses of the perk. I assure you other survivors will. Don't worry too much about it.
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Were still talking about reassurance right?
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The gameplay loop for survivors involves being hooked thus being hooked is still gameplay. You can not enjoy being on a hook and I'm pretty sure the intend is you are not suppose to enjoy being on a hook. Facecamping is an issue the devs have to figure out to solve that doesn't hurt situations where the killer is defending the hook such as survivors rushing to unhook in front of them.
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I remember games where spawn camping was a problem, because it prevented people from playing. so yes, there are other games where that happened. Just sad noone learned from them.
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Well the numbers tell a much different story. There are way more casuals in this game than SWF, a simple google search will show you that. Casuals keep the game going because when there are only at max 6% SWF teams playing at any time you are running into casuals or soloq. Soloq is a terrible experience for anyone right now and most that play solo are casual.
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except you gain nothing from being stuck on a hook to a face camper. At least working on gens you get some bp. If you are the first on the hook and get camped the entire match you get nothing, no fun or bp.
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You don't actually believe that people don't understand that being on the hook is not part of the game. We all know at some point we will go up on a hook. Being on the hook for an entire match should not be part of the game. Also, being chased can be fun but when you are targeted to the point where you have no chance after getting unhooked the chase is no longer fun it just becomes aggravating. Being chased and being tunneled are two totally different things and I'm sure you know this and if you don't then go get tunneled for multiple games in a row and you will see the difference.
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You can't be casual anymore. You either tryhard to have an attempt at winning, or die.
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Unfortunately thats been the killer experience for years now. It's the reason I started playing survivor because I could have a decent game and not have to go full sweat. I definitely find a bit more sweaty but that has also caused killer play to go back to sweat or 4 out.
Survivors are generally running gen speed builds which makes gens go fast which makes killers run slowdown. I'm not saying Survivors started it but I've definitely noticed and increase in gen speed builds in most my survivor and killer games.
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Question about this. I get not wanting to be forced to run certain perks, but its the same on killer. Unless you are playing nurse or blight with really good add-ons then you have to take gen regression/slow down. There's nothing fun or interesting about these perks either but you do just straight up lose against good players without them. Even lilith on blight with no slowdown will lose games vs good swfs, even with alch-ring and green speed.
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You’re quite incorrect; survivors are meant to avoid capture and being hooked, which pragmatically removes them from the trial until they’re rescued or they die. Being hooked isn’t a natural sequence of survivor gameplay; in fact, it’s a dereliction of their objective. Gens to Escape sequence. Killers are an unpredictable variable that serves to interrupt this sequence, and gives survivors a secondary objective of avoiding the killer.
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Being hooked is a natural sequence of survivor gameplay. The recent changes the devs made were intent on speeding up chases meaning the killer is designed to win chases and hook survivors. Hook states are a resource survivors have to play with. Generally you want to try to protect the survivors who have the least amount of hook states when possible as keeping everyone alive as long as you can is ideally for completing generators.
While it is possible in chases were you massively outskilled your opponent to never go down, that is not what the game is designed around.
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Thanks bro, good résumé.
From my experience, i mostly not run slow build, slow builds are good when you start to down surv in early and then continously. But it cost you chase perks. Plus i got traumatized this last years, being utterly destroyed because i got only slow perks to got time, but it didn't worked because mostly "goods" swf, i say "good" like this because seeing the same 4 perks op build is questionable about your skill (the infamous DH/DS/borrow/unbreakable).
Plus i got a way too much tilted about the high toxicity in end game by survs. So, i builded a end game build and i prefer keep it on some killers.
This is somewhat weird, survs should just exit, but no, even when door is open, they wait at exit to t bag you, man, this is why you deserve what the killers do to you.
I wondered for a long time "who started the toxicity ? who is the most toxic ?" Answer is survs, no doubt. It's like you can't just play normally, no, you feel forced to taunt/bully the killer all time. And you dare to ask us to not camp/not tunnel/etc ? U mad bro, i was mostly kind for a long time, but YOUR attitude put me in a "total no mercy", i always got insulted in tchat anyway, kind or not, it change absolutely nothing.
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What else do you want? You've end game collapse you can chase them out you can keep trying to hook them? Like what more can you ask for at end game? For survivors to insta die the moment the gates open?
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If you talk to me, i don't get why you say that. All i just say is a risk/reward question, the risk of moving at end game if you already got a surv on hook is too high, it take little time to open the doors, and there is two. So, best is to camp at this moment. The surv on hook act as a bait, if others come to save him, it will cost them something, if they flee, they win.
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Cant say this has been my experience at all. I'm enjoyingthe variety and diversity, and survivors been more interesting lately.
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I agree as survivors are stuck into one specific build to play the game killers have every opportunity to change the pace of the game with a versatile selection of perks. While survivors are just skins and one perks change hurts them negatively.
Killers mains cry about 1 perk giving a survivor a chance to survive is like saying that player is seal team 6
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I feel as though I have to sit on a gen or I'm letting the team down. More frequently games are ending with multiple gens still to go, and if I've cleansed a totem or opened a chest that game then I feel like I wasted precious time. I even watch streamers getting frustrated, saying like 'why is Jake cleansing a totem, get on a gen!' Or 'why is Nea just running around? she should be on a gen!' I haven't used Prove Thyself in ages but I'm feeling like I have to in order to help the team. We should be able to do other objectives without feeling like we're potentially throwing the game. Idk. That's just my gripe.
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Yes i'm sure you are going against good survivors who don't make mistakes often. I would think one of the best blights in the world running non gen regression and some of his best add-ons would beat out your trapper. He's basicallly going against the best available survivors unless queue time is too long. If you are playing an m1 killer against survivors who are actually trying to better them selves m1 killers are unplayable without slowdown.
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But is it meaningful gameplay? I'd argue that it isn't. The killer facecamping the survivor and preventing them from being unhooked is preventing them from playing the game in any meaningful capacity.
Dangling from a hook is not meaningful gameplay. Hitting skill checks on the hook is not meaningful gameplay.
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Being slugged at the end of game is super gameplay, first and last down ;) so amazing race
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A combo of solo queue being worse than ever and camping and tunneling being easier than before.
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It's kind of wild now. BVHR is doing almost everything they can to force killers to leave a 32 meter radius from the hook. It shouldn't be a lot to ask but here we are.
I still think they need to implement point deductions after spending a certain amount of time inside 16 meters from the hook.
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If you made it to the end of the game and were slugged, you can't complain about non-participation. Similarly, being slugged with the chance for your teammates to pick you back up is arguably better than being face-camped at 5 gens.
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They need to focus a more effective way to deal with camping killers for instance longer time on hook or allow the hook to break if the killer is near by.
I would like to see a perk that blocks killers hooks too .. but takes time to set up
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I very, very hardly think it's gona see the light, it's game breaking, plus, you already got sabotage.
I really don't get why camping and tunneling are easier, you got a base kit borrow time and speed boost, it's not nothing and counter tunneling, plus, you still have DS if it's a true tunnel.
But i think of something, you say it's easier to do that since the big patch, but nothing on killer get changed to incite them to do this, exept the change done do thanato a little farther, but it's really not enough.
So i got a suposition; killers queue are longer, this mean two things, ther is less survs and more killers, maybe it's just survs who start to play killers but play like they played survs (toxic) ? A bully will be a bully you know ?
And anyway, as i said most times, you feel way too much tunneled and camped even if it's hazardous or legitimate in some ways. So i don't really take the sayings of survs as true on this.
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