Hexes need a rework
So one of the arguments made for hexes is that its a risk reward system that justifies their "game changing effects" or something along those lines. However most of the hexes power doesnt justify this line of thinking. One that comes to mind and has been this way for awhile is huntress lullaby. A new comer being Ruin.
Another issue I have with hexes in general is that my perk or build now is entirely reliant on not being either instantly cleansed by bad survivor spawns/bad hiding spots or the team hunting them. Which now there are many perks and items to hunt them or give the survivors a reason to hunt them. This is even more true the higher your mmr is. Where most survivors you face know the spawns.
I have had games where 3 of my 4 hexes on a hex build are cleansed before the first hook or gen pop. A year ago I completely stopped using hexes because it winds up being a 2 to no perk build 1/4 into the match. With Undying or thrill of the hunt it feels like you are sacrificing another perk slot just to get your 3 or 2 perk build to work.
I played with hexes in my unless I'm forced to for a year. It doesn't feel good. Hexes do not feel good right now and haven't for awhile. I'd like to use hexes but it not worth it.
My purposed fix is that Hexes that are going to remain in this sad state get residual effects upon being cleansed. Idk what the effects would be but they shouldn't be anything crazy unless that's the gimmick of the hex. This will make hexes feel better since killers are at the mercy of the team they are facing.
So with ruin one idea to give as an example is that after it is cleansed the killers kick adds 2% more regression. That way the survivors will have to choose to either deal with ruin or the killers kick being stronger. The numbers obviously need to be looked at to balance properly but that's just an example of what I mean.
Some like devour hope or noed maybe don't need this since they are such powerful hexes. Others maybe need to not be hexes like Thrill of the hunt. Imo it doesn't make any sense to have a hex that supposed to protect your hexes have a possibility to not be able to do its job. What I'm talking about is when thrill gets cleansed first.
Also another fun Idea would be to make a sequel chapter featuring the hag and Mikaela so that swamp can FINALY be fixed along with the hexes. I think boons are in a pretty ok spot. With the chapter they could add more boons and hexes to the base game pool of perks.
Depending on if this post gets any traction I'll make a list of purposed added effects or changes to the bottom of the post. I'd like to hear the forums suggestions too. Could be fun to think about and discuss.
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So one of the arguments made for hexes is that its a risk reward system that justifies their "game changing effects" or something along those lines. However most of the hexes power doesnt justify this line of thinking. One that comes to mind and has been this way for awhile is huntress lullaby. A new comer being Ruin.
Hexes on the whole as a mechanic are fine, it’s just certain specific Hexes like Huntress Lullaby and Ruin that could use a buff. So really you have to look at each Hex individually and adjust its effect if needed given how Hexes work in general.
Just going down the list
- Blood Favour - This is actually not bad. I use it periodically and typically get free hits and downs from it before it’s eventually cleansed.
- Crowd Control - Maybe could use a slight buff? Technically it can block windows slightly easier than Bamboozle but the disadvantage to this compared to Bamboozle is you can’t actively pre-block a window before the survivor vaults it. For example, say you are approaching shack. With Bamboozle you can vault the window before the survivor does to block it in advance. With Crowd Control it doesn’t get blocked until after the survivor uses it which is a bit weaker. I could see this maybe getting a buff where survivors periodically have windows they are approaching be blocked with a cooldown rather than windows they just used. (So every 30 seconds if you are in a chase a window the survivor you are chasing approaches gets blocked for a short term.)
- Devour Hope - Maybe my favorite Hex. 🙂 This is the epitome of high risk high reward, if the survivors cleanse it early you get nothing but it they ignore it too long you get huge value. No need to change it.
- Haunted Ground - Pretty good effect. I typically get 1-3 instant downs from it somewhat early in the match when I use it because invariably some survivor destroys it. Yeah, in theory survivors shouldn’t do that without knowing what the Hex probably is, but they do. 😄
- Huntress Lullaby - This definitely doesn’t need to be a Hex at all. It could literally just be a perk that says “survivors don’t get sound queues on their skill checks” and it still probably wouldn’t be overpowered.
- No One Escapes Death - Obviously the effect is Hex worthy. It also just got a nerf to make it easier to find after it triggers so it’s probably fine as is.
- Plaything - Making a survivor permanently Oblivious until they cleanse the totem isn’t a bad effect, probably ok as is.
- Retribution - This one I could see maybe getting a bit of a buff. The aura it gives is decent but it only triggers once per match, so it’s a bit like Lethal Pursuer once per match only with unpredictable timing and it doesn’t buff other aura durations. Feels like this could be buffed and still not be overpowered as a one-shot Hex.
- Ruin - The new version’s regression is probably too slow considering it’s a Hex. I’m ok with it turning off after someone dies, but they could probably keep the old 200% speed in that case.
- Third Seal - This is tricky because Blindness can be really great against solo queue and average survivors but is a lot less useful against swfs and excellent survivors. I’m not sure how you could buff the effect against the top end without making it overpowered on average.
- Thrill of the Hunt - Probably too weak as a Hex as is, especially on its own. It does provide additional slowdown if the survivors are placing a lot of Boons and you keep reseting them but is that worth being a Hex? Feels like it could just be a normal perk that says “survivors take X seconds longer to cleanse or Bless totems” and it would still be ok.
- Undying - Obviously not that great by itself but combined with a second or third or fourth good Hex it’s solid.
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At this point Ruin isn't worth having any residual effects... cause they decreased the regression rate... but then Ruin being where it is does bring up regression
The other ones are limiting to put in a residual effect... Huntress Lullaby could just continue to give more regression on missed skillchecks
Thrill Of The Hunt doesn't need a residual effect
Devour Hope could countdown (like 15-30 seconds)
Retribution doesn't need a residual effect
The Third Seal... I don't know
NOED is still complained about so no to that one
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In my opinion, I rather think that what the totems need is precisely to make their access much more difficult.
For example in super narrow places.
We could also add a protective barrier for 30 seconds for the totem.
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There is one totem that is high risk high reward : Devour Hope. Ironically this is the totem that should have been given the "aura vision" nerf they gave NOED.
Almost all the other hexes would be balanced if the killer could relight them as easily as they turn on "pentimento". Boons likewise would be more risky if the killer could just turn your boon into a hex instantly. You could not destroy a perk like Blood Favour unless you broke all the totems. But in so doing then your friend loses the ability to give the team heals.
That type of conundrum is exactly what DBD needs to make totems balanced and fun for both sides. Almost nobody runs totems because they are such a heavily RNG weighted system that is nearly guaranteed to not "pay out". Boons are exactly the opposite.
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Yeah, hexes need to be redone. I don't use them myself.
And I still say Crowd Control doesn't need to be a hex.
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I definitely do not agree with this list for hexes.
Blood Favour - You can just hold-w most of the time. In order for this hex to be game-changing, it would need break standing pallets
Hex:crowd control: - Doesn't do anything, just makes survivor drop pallets sooner, For it to be game-changing, it should block all windows until cleansed
Hex:Lullaby - Prevents you from getting consistent great skill-checks, does not matter against strong players. 10% faster dial speed per token up to 50% might making it do something. Get a better skill-checks and you can completely ignore this perk
Devour hope - Comes online too late into the match for most killers, If you loop well enough, you'll often never see its exposed effect until end game. Strong anti-loop killers that can use exposed can make good use of it. It would be better if this perk lost its token system and mori and gained exposed right at the start of the match. It would make it a strong option for stealth killers
Ruin - It was strong before patch. reverting regression would make it game-changing like before. it was only hex that you couldn't ignore.
Third seal - I'm not sure why this is a perk because it only hurts solo and does nothing for SWF. It is designed for 4 man slugging. I would change effect where it makes you lose 35% bleed out timer when another survivor heals another survivor from dying state to injured state. It would be game-changing for slugging.
Plaything - This perk is amazing for instant down killers because it allows you hit & run with 1 hits on all killers. It should lose its aura effect.
Haunted grounds - Only exists to make devour hope stronger. Ironically, it ends up being stronger then devour hope in most cases because devour hope often get cleansed before its relevancy making this perk proc more often than not. very strong on anti-loop killers where instant down works with their ability. arguably strongest non-noed hex.
Hex: Retribution - Not enough of reward for being a hex. This perk should be reworked to give permanent aura reading until broken.
Thrill of hunt - Why is this a hex? they should put shattered hope effect on this perk. it could be anti-boon perk. maybe it makes boons take 50% longer, increases hex cleansing time and allows killer to break the totem.
Hex: Undying: Only exists to make other hex perk relevant. its not worth using because none of hex are worth using. typically the best way to use this hex is to run haunted ground and try get survivor to proc 2 haunted grounds.
NOED: still grants late game kills, just less consistent.
main issue with hexes is that if you make all hexes game-changing, then the best builds ends up being 4 hex builds because they give you the most bang for your buck in term of perks. so they're largely flawed concept as perks.
the other issue with them is that killers don't like using them because they got no consistency. funny enough, the more hexes you use, the more consistent hex perks become which is also problematic for these perks.
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Otherwise these changes would be great but I disagree on retribution and ruin. Retribution in my opinion is more like undying: to be paired with other hex perks and I don't think it needs a change really. It's a pretty strong with haunted grounds for example. It needs a build around it but it's still pretty good.
Ruin could get bit of a buff but I think bringing it back to 200% is still too much. Around 120-150% would be more than enough since survivors would still need to find and cleanse it or we're probably just going back to the stale ruin undying meta.
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I had proposed this idea a few times here on the forum and generally people liked it. So here we go:
At the start of a match all totems are dull totems and your hexes are sustained by The Entity and fully work for a set time, like 1:30min or 2min. After this time has elapsed The Entities protection is lifted and the hexes spawn on any available dull totems, starting with the most left Hex in your loadout.
This has the following effects:
1) you are guranteed to gain some value from your totems and can`t have them cleansed literally within the first minute of the game.
2) it doesn't prevent survivors from interacting with dull totems, ie they can cleanse them for Inner Healing/Overzealous or set up boons.
3) You can even "do bones" and go on a Hex-countering cleansing spree.
4) Hexes and full hex builds become more viable, without losing their risky part. You can still lose it all, potential 1:30min into the game, when The Entities protection is lifted, but at least you got a fair chance to use your hexes.
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- Blood Favour - What can I tell you, I get value out of it when I use it. 🤷♂️
- Crowd Control - Hexes don't need to be literally "game changing" to be useful. But I do agree that Crowd Control could use a buff.
- Lullaby - Again, I agree this one is too weak to be a Hex.
- Devour Hope - Devour Hope triggers after 3 hooks, not "only in the end game". If you're not getting 3 hooks by the "end game" you're playing badly.
- Ruin - reverting its regression would not be reverting it to its old version since the old version continued working after one death. I agree the current version is too slow, so I'm all for it returning to 200%, but they should keep in that it turns off after a death, that's fine.
- Third Seal - You answered your own question, it's a perk because it's effective in at least half the matches where everybody is solo queue. (When the devs have periodically shown data on it it's very roughly a 50-50 split between all solo survivor squads and survivors that include a 2-4 person swf). Also note that one of the top picked perks currently is Windows of Opportunity and Blindness is a direct counter to it, and that part at least works just fine against swfs too. What I'd like is for them to find a way to both buff solos so they have some additional information that swf players get on comms, and then if Third Seal is now too weak against solos buff it to do, say, Blindness and Exhaustion (similar to how Fearmonger and Septic Touch pair them together).
- Undying - I disagree that "none of the other Hexes are worth using". Again, I get good value out of Devour Hope, Blood Favour, and Haunted Grounds at the very least when I use them and Undying plus any of those is better than the sum their parts. Undying even works with the Plaything plus Pentimento combo that's in vogue.
- NOED - Yeah, NOED is fine as is, I agree.
So I'm not sure why you said you "disagree with this list of hexes", we seem to agree on a bunch of them.
Again, Hexes don't need to be "gaming changing", they just need to give good enough value over their expected life span to be worthwhile. Pentimento for example is strong but not "game changing" but it does give good enough slowdown if it stays up for at least a couple of minutes. Haunted Grounds is also not game changing and only lasts 60 seconds but giving a couple of instant downs in the early game can really shift the momentum.
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That's the thing with Retribution, it's "good" with Haunted Grounds but not necessarily "great". Basically you're spending two perks to get maybe one extra instant down compared to running Haunted Grounds by itself.
Like I said earlier, Retribution is I think on par with the old version of Lethal Pursuer before it got the extra effect that increases aura duration. Except it's slightly worse because it might be showing you auras when you don't actually need them and can't capitalize on them, and if you're unlucky it might not even ever trigger at all depending on if the survivors aren't cleansing and what else you run with it. It just feels like it could use a bit of a buff.
As far as Ruin goes, I'm open to the possibility of it being 150% instead of 200% depending on the stats the devs are seeing. Either way though 100% seems too slow.
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They've provided a bandaid fix to totem's being cleansed too early with pentimento & there are some overpowered totem builds especially haunted/undying/devour w/ pentimento or a perk of your choosing. Basically lose lose for survivors and it's pretty common for haunted to get cleansed first making people weary of proccing it twice.
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Lullaby needs to be a hex, it may not be great at high level, but it is downright oppressive at lower level. I'm also old and have crappy reflexes and play on console where skill checks are already harder so once its powered up i dont touch gens till its gone, i will run the killer or search until hatch spawns for that totem.
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in most my games when playing against weak killers. Devour hope would typically trigger at 3-4 generator done, sometimes even at 5 generator done. that's been my typical experience vs it.
As for using it, I've only used it on Nurse and pre-nerf spirit. I would never use this perk on anyone except these two killers. this perk is like designed by survivor main that wants the killer go for hooks only to cleanse it so the killer gets nothing for it. it works for them because nurse doesn't need perks to win chases, but gets massive "gen defense" by being able to convert her 2 hits into 1 hit. basically you save a lot of time as nurse if you can instant down the survivor. same with spirit, though spirit is not as good as before without luxury add-ons. its low risk, high reward perk for those two.
Now a days, you won't see nurses using this perk because starstruck is devour hope for nurse without hex condition. Ghostface and Wraith can use the perk, but its high risk, high reward perk. relies on survivors being bad at the chase to get first 3 hooks.
Hex:Pentiomento is as powerful as pre-nerfed hex:ruin but survivor have no obligation to ever cleanse any totem. there isn't any good reason for a survivor to cleanse a totem by default. cleansing totems is just free generator defense for the killer and survivor will always rush first 3-4 generators as it is essential to combat camping, so by the time a totem is cleansed, your at 1 gen so this perk loss all of its effectiveness since 80% of objective got completed. if you could activate this perk at the start of the game and keep it active for the entire game, it would be better than any other killer perk in the game. Luckily, you can't do that, so the perk is not worth using.
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The problem with hexes is not actually the power themselves but how easy some totems are to find. I personally would rather have the developers add a bunch more harder to see totem spawns, than to buff hexes. I feel like hex lullaby is the weakest totem simply because it usually get's cleansed before it can get strong. But if you really think about it, that is kind of how devour plays out most games. If you make the totems harder to find suddenly they start to feel better to use, and survivor totem perks become more valuable.
On the other hand, I am not really a fan of killers being able to protect totems like devour hope (demo, trapper, hag). I feel like the aura of devour should just be invisible to the killer. If you take the time to look for and manage to find your devour hope you would be rewarded for it. But, I have played against several demo's that just instantly portal the totem and use it to win the game for free.
TLDR: I would like to see a patch that does a totem spawn pass, makes them more hard to find. Making survivor totem perks more useful. I would like to see some changes to make protecting strong totems like devour hope harder to do on killers like trapper, hag, and demo.
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As a hex totem destroyer and booner main, I will invoke my killer side.
I don't use hexes, as they don't gain value, since they get destroyed so quickly.
The Hex Totem Aura should pulsate when the totem is being destroyed/blessed.
As I was writing this I went into a match, got this screen shot to add salt to the wound.
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