http://dbd.game/killswitch
Otz new Killer Tier list
In case anybody is curious, Otz just posted his updated killer tier list. While I don't literally agree with 100% of what Otz says all the time his positions are always well articulated and generally worth at least a listen. (Although at almost two hours long it's something I personally just listen to the items I'm mainly interested in versus the entire episode all at once.)
Anyway this new one includes his thoughts on Wesker. Here's the video and a breakdown of the timestamps. Per his introduction this is how effective he feels the killers are played normally against average to high MMR survivors using typical add-ons and random maps.
S Tier
A+ Tier
A Tier
B Tier
- 0:31:57 Pinhead
- 0:36:33 Cannibal
- 0:39:32 Demogorgon
- 0:42:07 Deathslinger
- 0:45:47 Nemesis
- 0:49:24 Dredge
- 0:53:53 Hillbilly
C Tier
D Tier
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I think my own list would be kind of similar to this with some of the killers moved up or down a rank. Just going through it off-hand from bottom to top
- I think Onryo should be C Tier with Wraith. He seemed to be discounting her partly because of limitations of Stealth against really good survivors, but the survivor bracket he's talking about (average to high) is actually still somewhat susceptible to stealth attacks and this is also evidenced by her slightly above average kill rates on aggregate sites which track that level of player. She's weaker than Dredge though so still not great, I think C tier is the call.
- Pig probably belongs in B Tier currently. Again, she has very solid stealth and that is a useful asset in the average brackets we're talking about. Also the change to her boxes a couple of months ago seems to have helped her and her kill rates are quite high currently. (And historically she's been one of the highest kill rate killers in the overall brackets of all matches against all players as well, again because stealth is an ability that is most useful against average players.) Given that change and her statistically high kill rates I would put her in B, not C.
- Trickster is probably a bit high, I would put him in D Tier instead of C. Even Otz in his discussion of Trickster spends a good chunk of it listing in gruesome detail all the problems Trickster has (slow movement, the potential to waste his power if he can't secure a damage state from the daggers, an ultimate triggered ability that is way too tricky to use properly) before getting into what he likes about Trickster which is, if a survivor is in the open, he has the potential to get a quick down. He then loosely compares Trickster to Bubba in how a survivor in the open can be downed quickly, but frankly Trickster is no Bubba. And statistically Trickster always has among the lowest kill rates on both the dev charts and the aggregate site I follow. He really belongs in the bottom tier in my opinion.
- I personally put Dredge in A tier versus B simply because its map mobility is so strong and long periods of solid stealth are also useful against average survivors. Again, the problems it suffers in terms of the effectiveness of stealth are more at the really high end of the survivor pool versus the average to above average end. And while its anti-loop isn't great it's still something that can get a hit now and then. If its Remnant plays were better I might have put it in A+ but as is A seems the right spot. (And statistically Dredge is quite high in the kill stats as well.)
- I like Twins well enough but I would put them in B tier instead of A. Victor has good map mobility and a touch of stealth, which is great, but ultimately his lunge is so finicky when it comes to hitting survivors using obstacles for cover and the swap time between him and Charlotte just feels a touch too slow for its own good that I just can't see myself putting them in A tier while those issues are present. And Twins generally have low kill rates at the average brackets as well. At the highest end apparently Twins can be really ruthless, but since this list is about average to above average players I can't see Twins quite making it to A Tier.
I think I'd probably leave the rest of the killers in their current brackets. I could MAYBE see Doctor being B tier? 🤷♂️ But he does seem less effective nowadays so high C tier is probably ok.
Comments
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It is pretty mid. Luckily he is not paid to make these. It is not the worst I have ever seen, do not get me wrong... But if you told me it was from the guy who thinks unhooking should have no counterplay, I would believe you.
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It’s crazy to see Freddy below clown. People used to say he was S tier when his rework first came out which seems ridiculous now (I know he had slowdown add ons but without them he kinda sucked)
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I'm not going to watch it simply because Demogorgon is in B tier
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Victor is hard to hit with? No?
Twins has a tons of problems. Lethality of Viktor is not one of them.
The swap time is a big problem. So is the inability to hook survivors when Charl is on the other side of the map.
So is the inconsistent blood pools.
So is Viktors power just not working right in certain situations like when the survivor is on a slope.
But despite all that no other killer can exert as much pressure as twins. They are like ganondorf in smash, any % is kill percent. Better snowballer than agi/starstruck nurse and incredible map presence because you can literally be in 2 places at once. Twins is A tier but needs some qol changes :(
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Eh, I wouldn't put trapper at very bottom, a good trapper can be a menace, just when you think his trap was over there BOOM it was right underneath you, I'd definitely put him above onyro if nothing else
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Tier lists are weird you can't do a tier list and be unbiased, for me Wraith and Legion are not C tier and Clown is not D, if I do a tier list Wraith/legion/clown are A and deathslinger/billy are D cause I can't play them
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I think Dredge is in the right place.
If he doesn't successfully get a hit after teleporting to his remnant in chase his power goes on cooldown and that can be really punishing. I don't think his map mobility and stealth makes up for his lack of lethality, which everyone else in Otz's B tier beat him in.
If only he had some addons that made him faster when teleporting not in Nightfall. Are we ####### there yet?!?
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The meta hasn’t been kind to him either.
He can’t bypass BT anymore, his synergies with perks aren’t as effective, and the predrop playstyle that’s become prevalent lately hurts him a lot.
He also might as well not have addons, and the nerfs he got a while back make him even more dull to play. I think if they brought back Old Freddy, he’d be more interesting and maybe even just as strong as he is now.
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Love how the very first thing Otz always lists is "oh yeah, PC version of the game."
He didn't mention why this time, but last killer tier list he quickly ticked off a few of the reasons...
Pig's placement shows her cumulative tiny boosts helping out. Please don't nerf her for me just saying that though...
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I think the main problem with Freddy is simply that his main chase abilities only real work on survivors who are already asleep. It's almost the opposite issue to what Legion has, Freddy has trouble getting injuries but then once he's hit someone he has an easier time downing them in the follow-up.
Don't get me wrong, I like playing as Freddy, I think he's fun. 🙂 But I don't think he's as effective as some other killers, including Clown who I think is better in chases.
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How DARE he put baby girl Sadako in the same tier as Freddy? Shameless, shameless.
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Yeah, I personally put Demo in high B tier, maybe low A tier? 🤷♂️I think he's good but just not quite as good as the others in that tier (aside from Twins which I think Otz overrated a bit.)
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I disagree with a lot of his dredge takes. First saying Dredge isn't map dependent is just wrong, Dredge is a nightmare on any indoor map but Dredge can feel like the worst killer in the game on a map like Shelter Woods where there's 6 lockers on the whole map and the loops generally don't complement your revenant very well and the farm maps are much the same. I also don't agree Dredge has average add-ons I feel like they actually have some of the best add-ons in the game with good selections at every rarity. Calendar and Skull can feel like a different game at times with making lockers way less annoying and skull getting you many more nightfalls per game like besides war helmet and pillow I don't think dredge has any bad add-ons.
I think overall I'd put Dredge high C tier I think Dredge is probably the most overrated killer in the game. Extremely map dependent and can feel sluggish in chase but extremely good add-ons and extremely short downtime between chases gives them some strengths but overall dredge is very loopable and at the end of the day that's what matters most. You can make a killer with ever strength in the world other than antiloop but if they're easy to loop they're never better than B tier.
I'd switch Dredge and Trickster in Otz's tier list and then I more or less agree with the rest.
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That's just it though, I think those problems you mentioned are enough to knock them out of A tier. If they made the swap smoother and faster, did something about the blood pools, and (in my opinion), made it just slightly easier for Victor to deal with hitting around obstacles they'd be A tier for sure. As is I'd put them in B tier because of the issues.
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Honestly, I'd put Demogorgon right behind Huntress.
They have similar playstyles at loops, but Demogorgon has the better mobility while Huntress has the long-range damage.
Demogorgon's best Add-Ons also outshine Huntress' imo
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The issue I have with Trapper is his early game is really hindered by how much time he has to spend collecting traps from around the map and placing them where he wants. And even when he does that, the payoff isn't even guaranteed, how easy the traps are to see is map and location and survivor skill dependent.
I will say he got a slight boost from Dead Hard no longer allowing survivors to leap over his traps, though. So Trapper using traps to block off critical paths is a bit more effective now. I don't know if that's enough to get him out of the bottom tier in my book because of the other problems above but it's something!
I definitely think Trapper could use a buff. Personally, my thinking would be two changes
- Use his Purple add-on where he starts with all his traps in hand but can't move them as his base ability. That's honestly a MUCH more fun way to play him in my opinion because it tremendously speeds up his early game. Then replace his Purple add-on with a variant that lets him move the traps around like he currently can but he possibly gets fewer traps to start to keep it from being too strong.
- Make his traps translucent, that way how hard they are to see would be less terrain dependent.
If they did those two changes I think he could be pretty solid. 🙂
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Oh for sure, Tier lists are totally subjective! It's fun seeing what other people think though. 🙂
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Saying pig is B is extremely generous. I've mained her for a long time and unfortunately at high level she just can't compete. You have nothing to help in chase and the traps are extremely useless except for some rare circumstances. Depending on the Map you may not even get 4 downs to place all the traps on. During endgame if they aren't on they're useless since the gate won't activate them. Her stealth is probably the worst In the game due to its lack of mobility and it takes forever to deactivate. Shack is also free time waster in chase for her because you suffer from lack of chase power.
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you guys need to learn how to accept other's opinions seriously why you get mad if otz put your killer main in a low tier lmao. i completely agree with him
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Plague being the 5th best killer in the game? I strongly disagree with this one.
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I agree with you on onryo, pig and trikster. But you're wrong abour dredge and twins. Dredge has map mobility but is basically m1 his remnant is easy to counter by holding W. Unlike artist who is 115% killer dredge is 92% killer while holding remnant. Dredge is at best B+. Twins I definetely agree with otz being A tier. There is no counter play for victor you have to hope he misses as that is only counter. In high mmr twins is beast I once encouraged good twins and he slugged pretty decent swf in just few minutes.
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he made this tier list not just by himself but also with his viewers. guess thats what people think about plague lol
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That happens when people massively overrated a killer. Same goes for Billy, Wraith and Plague. And people realizes how much they sucks after nerfs.
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Good tierlist tho
Post edited by Silasy on1 -
Freddy is dead. With the latest 39 perk-change-patch + DMS-Hardcore-Nerf, he is the biggest loser of it.
"His" Perks Tinkerer, Dead Mans Switch, Pop, Ruin got all nerfed or destroyed and now he has nothing for his Gen-Teleport left. Okay, you could run Call of Brine, Eruption, Overcharge and TInkerer (new one), but besides that, there is nothing left he could use. No TR-Perks, worst addons in the game etc.
For me Freddy is even worse than Myers (decent addons for different playstyles) and Onryo (can use Teleport even after 5 gens are done = NOED-Option + The Teleport is instant).
Freddys Fake-Teleport do nothing anymore without Dead Mans or normal Tinkerer.
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Plague counters the best perks and items in the game with green purge and can end chases as fast as a nurse or blight while chewing through health states of multiple survivors as well as bubba in unhook situations when they have red purge. The only thing that holds them back is fountain RNG and survivors that know how to cleanse at the fountains most inconvenient for you to go to.
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Luckily this almost 2 hours tier list video where everything is exactly the same as before + 1 killer is only the PTB video
Can't wait for the final 5 hours version post patch release with all the official changes from the PTB
And hopefully he'll make also an 18 hour video ranking all the new add-ons (and all the old ones) (can't miss that!) (really, don't miss it)
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To be fair, Otz IS a very good trapper.
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Yeah I lost a little confidence in otz myself when he said dpi affects blight flicks still even though that was changed before i started playing the game over a year ago...
PSA: DPI literally does nothing for blight if you didn't already know.
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Keep in mind, though, Otz said for this list he was looking at how the survivors do against average to above average survivors, not specifically "high level" ones. And against the average survivors she's actually good as demonstrated by her consistently high kill rates.
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TBH I think that might be part of why he put him at the very bottom.
Something many people do (I've found myself doing this as well in other games) is underrate their mains, because they experience the absolute suite of every single negative that character can get due to such a large sample size. I have no doubt that he has seen far more horrendous situations as trapper than most have, which influences his decision on how bad things can get. Its a completely normal and understandable bias to have.
I'm not going to argue that trapper should be S tier or anything stupid like that, but thats the kind of grain of salt thats always required with these types of perspectives. Its not supposed to be taking his word as law, more that he has gazed into the abyss, and the only thing he found looking back at him, was trapper.
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Yeah, I agree they're pretty close, I'd put Huntress as low A or high B as well.
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To be fair I haven't seen anybody that is mad about Otz's list. Mostly it's some people saying he's wrong on specific things they disagree with but I didn't notice anybody getting upset. 🤷♂️
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Yeah, his reasoning I think has to do with how she counters the Circle of Healing and strong med kit current meta. She's probably a bit higher than I'd put her but I'd still probably have her in A tier at this current moment in the game.
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Right, I said his Remnant was weak anti-loop, the only reason I have him personally in A tier is because his map mobility and stealth are that strong. If he was even somewhat better in chase I'd put him in A+.
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Lol, I like Otz but I hardly ever watch him because his videos are so freaking long! 😄
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demo is m1 killer against better players because curving with his shred is not effective because most of demo's counter-play often boil down to put the pallet down 1 loop sooner then normal. it denies his ability to curve with shred and it often puts you into m1 pallet break simulator where his shred doesn't break pallets fast enough to be effective pallet eater. his anti-loop is a lot like dredge where it only works when in the corner of the map similar to brutal strength pallet zoning. essentially demo doesn't counter hold-w strategies very well because pallets are too effective against him but he is good at countering health-states & bodyblocking due to stbfl.
huntress is a lot stronger then him because unlike demo who needs build stbfl, huntress starts with 8 stacks of stbfl base-kit, so she naturally counters bodyblocking right from the start. this incredible in term of countering health-states and crazy strong for huntress hook camping game. drop pallets against huntress in loops is risky because she can hit people during animation of pallets and you might ask yourself... well why not pre-drop pallets? wouldn't her slow movement during hatch throwing make it impossible for her to get hits through LOS? this is true however the strength behind huntress is that unlike demo when he breaks a pallet, his shred has limit range of 6-8 meters. you can nearly always make it to next pallet. Against huntress, her hatchets have unlimited range and huntress counter to pre-drop pallets is shooting hatchets between loops after breaking the pallet. so despite being a 110% m/s killer, she counter's hold-w strategies against survivors extremely effectively because health-states give minimal distance and dropping pallets is not instant win against her in the chase.
this is why survivor greed pallets against huntress because its still safer to stay at loop with LOS and try win her 50/50 pallet drop mindgame then it is to try dodge hatchets in the open. that is also why wind-up add-on are strong for huntress because of the ability to throw hatchets between loops before the survivor gets to next pallet loop. brutal strength is good on huntress because breaking pallet faster means the survivor get less distance, less distance means easier hatchets to land between loops. bare in mind that you generally only get 1 hatchet per pallet break, but that's better than most killer that get zero chances to hit between loops.
this is also what set her apart from deathslinger and trickster. deathslinger's gun has smaller hitbox and at longer ranges, hitting survivors with good movement is nothing gambling for a movement error. his ADS change completely destroyed his ability to down survivors between loops and it also hurt his ability to shoot between cracks to down people at pallets. trickster lack's the window of opportunity to get hits between loops because he takes 6 hits to get an injure and anything less will slow you down while giving opportunity for survivors to regress his blades. trickster's knifes at tall loops is nothing short of ineffective. He is better at destroying health-states vs bodyblocking because he doesn't wipe his weapon or have cooldowns between his knife throws but that largely is not much better then huntress. He has terrible ammo problems as well.
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I will never understand why Freddy is considered weak. It's impossible to loop him.
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Disagree with Otz on some of these too. Deathslinger in B and Legion in C? Interesting. I'd put Dredge in A-tier aswell.
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I think it’s pretty good. Although I would make a few changes
Swap Artist and Plague, or just bump Plague to A+ tier.
Bump Demo to bottom of A or at the top of B
Swap Slinger and Hillbilly
Lower Dredge to bottom of B or top of C
Swap Pig and Trickster
Bump Ghostface to top of C
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Awful takes, as per usual with him. I feel sorry for the new players taking his opinions seriously.
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His reasoning is pretty solid overall. I think people are just looking at the list and not actually watching the video.
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One reason is his ability only actually works when the survivor is asleep. If they're awake he's basically totally powerless in the chase.
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I agreed with most of his stuff.
I think he still overvalues Spirit, Twins and Oni and underestimates Demo and Myers, but not by much.
As to yours:
- Onryo, no. Onryo may be tied with Trapper for the worst killer in the game. It's not that her stealth works sometimes - it's that her stealth is basically meaningless. The only thing she has going for her is traversal, and the only way to really make her functional is with gimmicky instadown stuff that other killers do better. She literally has no unique niche whatsoever.
- Pig? Absolutely not. She's always had high kill rates because of her chances to get instamoris based on bad luck. Her stealth is, like Onryo, pretty pointless.
- Trickster is about right at C tier. His ability to guard hooks and very rapidly destroy people at medium range is pretty good, he's just stupidly map dependent and doesn't do anything that Huntress can't do better.
- Dredge...nah, 'B' is about right. We aren't talking about 'average' survivors here, because that's a slippery slope. We're talking about high-intermediate to high MMRs. And against SWFs, stealth is meaningless. He's like a better Onryo, but nowhere near killers like Plague, Huntress and the other A tiers. And I say that as someone who basically mains him right now.
- Agreed on Twins.
- Doctor is definitely C tier - the lack of killer-side confirmation on shocks is just...oh, so bad.
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These long videos arent meant to be watched entirely lol. But if you want to know what he thinks about freddys green add ons or where he puts Ghostface in killer tierlist and why, you can always find it in those videos with time stamps. Its like encyclopedia
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What is an " Otz"?
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People saying Otz's opinions are misleading then put dredge or demo in A/A+ tier
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Demogorgon is A tier. He's on par with Huntress, they're interchangeable in terms of strength
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Hag is overrated she gets these A-tiers because she is good against solos. Few killers are so weak as Hag when all survivors knows how to counter the killer they play against.
And these lists also reminds me how irritating it is that Clown got his rework and still is so weak. He deserve better! And Freddy I think I would put him in low C-tier rather than D, but also sad to see what they did to him and also Billy.
If you play a bit "dirty" with Doctor he can be quite hard to play against also might belong in B-tier, but I can see Otz points also. It's overall a good list from Otz but playing on console some of these killers are a bit harder and might not be as good as they are on PC.
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fax its funny
i've never seen a demogorgon player say demo is A tier, there are no tier lists out there that put him in A tier or above lol i know you like demogorgon but im pretty sure you overestimate him
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