Dredge has been shadow nerfed... and it wasnt a small nerf RIP
You lose now your bloodlust when you teleport to your remnant which is a huge nerf to his 1v1 chase which wasnt really good in the first place...
Sure you gain now bloodlust much faster since the last midchapter but the problem with this is that Dredge lost a super fun chase aspect which made him very unique and fun in chases. (This shadow nerf happened with weskers release)
Back then you could play much more freely with the remnant. The majority anyway didnt do that but I did this very often and could end half of the chases like that. I placed often the remnant far away on a tile, usually on very unusual but hard to see spots for the survivors, lets say at the corner of an jungle gym away from pallets or windows. I teleport after I gained 1-2 bloodlust stacks and the survivors usually thinks then I just left so they either stand still for a sec to be sure or just try to leave the tile immidiatly and then I come out of a very unexpected direction or corner and get hits like this.
This "tech" often helped me to catch someone off guard and also gain even downs very quick like this. It worked quiete often because it is so unusual. I was also quiete fun cuz it was still a fair move which if the survivor still was quick enough to react or saw/heared the remnant before could play around that. The bloodlust helped to get this extra momentum to reach the survivors before they make it to a pallet or tile or window.
Now with this gone you are forced to play this very boring and generic pallet 50/50 play where you place the remnant close to a pallet and go back and forth so either the survivors vaults and gets hit or dont vaults and keeps running around the tile till you catch them.
Again it wasnt a game breaking tool or bug, it was just a other kind of strategy to catch survivors which was mostly fun to use and made Dredge unique. Now you are forced to play like a Hag or Artist to zone survivors at the 1 pallet till you catch them.
This made me lose alot of fun and motivation to play Dredge, there are chances that this is just a bug but I dont think so tbh.
Comments
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Now the real question: is this a nerf or is this a bug fix
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Either way it was a great and different way to play Dredge, bugs are not necessarely bad. Happy accidents can happen.
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Bugs are not necessarily bad, but providing an unintended advantage that players may not know about as it's undocumented officially isn't the greatest.
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I think its fine, being able to build bloodlust while using an antiloop power should not be the case, and yes I know dredge's antiloop is really bad but I think the right way is to buff it rather than just slap bloodlust into it.
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Sounds very much like a bug fix, using your killer power is meant to disable Bloodlust in general.
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I agree but the result is still devestating for someone like me, even if I am the minority. This wasnt even really an "issue" or known at all except for mad lads like me. In my case I will play much less Dredge and go back to my Oni as main Killer but it saddens me to see how such a great potential got already butchered that quick.
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Agree but thats the issue here, nothing happened in return. Now you are really an M1 killer with a very bad 50/50 mindgame.
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Honestly this should have never been a thing Dredge could do.
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Good. 1 step closer to eradicating bloodlust all together!
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I would say it depends on the power/killer. In dredges case it was a small extra tool or tech you had.
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No, it doesn't depend on the power. Activating your power disables/resets Bloodlust across the board.
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On some loops it is kinda necessary, now you are an m1 killer basicly on these kind of loops. Call it fair or not its just boring especially if you want to main a killer like this.
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If you want to bloodlust a loop, don't use your power.
If you try to use your power to out mindgame the survivor and lose, then you get set back.
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Which therefore leads to MORE bloodlust plays on dropped pallets and I am pretty sure the majority doesnt like this and finds boring, myself included. This could've been the start of a new "rule" or exception to enable more interesting powers in the future.
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Bloodlust = "super fun chase aspect". Ok.
Was quite clearly a Bug. Using a Killers Power should disable Bloodlust, no reason why Dredge should be different.
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How does Bloodlust deactivating when you teleport lead to more Bloodlust plays? That doesn't make sense.
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This never should have been a thing for dredge if I'm being honest
Post edited by dspaceman20 on0 -
Dont need to turn my words, I never wrote and meant this. And yes that way Dredge is now forced to fully bloodlust like any other Killer on certain dropped pallet, in your words "fun" right?
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You know, there is a possibility to press "Space" (or whatever System you are now on) and break a Pallet. I know, this is a very advanced trick, but I wanted to share it with you.
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You cannot go for "suprise" attacks anymore further away from tiles. You had 3 options at a dropped loop, either go do the 50/50 mindgame which is the worst option here btw since it is too risky or go for bloodlust which is the MUCH saver option here. OR back then you could go for a mindgame to pretend to leave a loop or do a big mindgame around the tile to lead the survivors to either make him leave the tile cuz they want to ofc build as much distance as possible and go catch them offguard. Without bloodlust you will NEVER make it to another tile with them when they do that unless it is a dead zone ofc.
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Well that is good news.
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Funny arent we, sry if I triggered you somehow although no clue why you are so hostile towards me.
Or you just bloodlust and get a down + get rid of the pallet, seems to me the better outcome which also works quiet often in my favor btw, I would stop doing it if it wouldnt work so well so ye.
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There’s no way Dredge keeping bloodlust while using their power was intended. That never should’ve been a thing and if I got a down with my remnant while bloodlusted, it never felt rewarding really. So I’m glad they fixed it.
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Which is exactly the reason why Bloodlust should be weaker and not stronger (as the Devs did that). It is just cheap that Killers just run around Pallets which should be broken, because they know they will catch the Survivor eventually.
And glad that it at least became harder for Dredge to do this cheap tactic (or "strategy", "tech" or whatever the DBD-Community want to call this), because the Devs fixed the respective Bug.
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Did this really happen that often in your games? I played Dredge quit a bit(level 20 prestige atm, mostly got bloodpoints from playing him only) and I think I can count on one hand the amount of times my bloodlust while holding remnant made a difference. I feel like it was pretty clearly a bug considering no other killer has ever said a "channel power and still retain bloodlust" mechanic and it does feel extremely cheesy to see it in action.
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I get the strong feeling you dont get at all what the topic here is. Because with the removal of this on Dredge is beeing forced to do exactly that what you are describing. Which means in other words it is bad.
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You get it wrong, Dredge kept bloodlust AFTER teleporting to the remnant. And yes it was a big difference, what you describe would completly kill Dredges 1v1 chase and turn him to a literal m1 killer like Legion.
And yes other killers also keep their bloodlust while "holding" or "channeling" their power. Artist, Plague, Pyramid head, Nemesis or Pinhead, could mention more though.
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If it's such a small extres little tool/tech then why does it's removal hurt so much? From your post and following comments it really sounds like you crutched on this one bug to down survivors at tiles instead of becoming better with both the Remnant and regular killer mindgames to disable loops.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it really does sound that way and you're trying to play it off as not a big deal when in actually you relied on it so much that it can make or break the killer for you. That doesn't sound like something small.
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Right here's where I know you're misinformed, because both Artist and Pyramid Head absolutely do not keep their bloodlust when actively using their powers (think placing a bird, sword in ground). I've played substantially more Pyramid Head than a lot of people- I'd argue than most on these Forums- and trust me when I say he does not keep that Bloodlust.
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Well lemme phrase it like that. You had 3 tools to do something at a chase. Now you are narrowed down to 2 tools.
It does hurt Dredge and makes him definatly weaker. Maybe 30% weaker if I would have to say a number. Does it in the end matter really? No
But it shows that BHVR clearly doesnt support "free style" gameplay from creative players. Other examples of this exact situation are Hug tech removal and sky billy. Its a matter of fun and beeing free, not beeing forced to play in 1 way only BHVR wants you to play, its bad game design and shows how stubborn atleast the balancing department is. Which therefore leads to less fun interaction.
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It is even worse that Dredge can utilize Bloodlust while spending less time than other Killers. Does not make bloodlusting less cheap.
It was a Bugfix, funnily the players always complain about Bugs in DBD, unless they favor them...
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On P head I am not 100% sure since I havent played him in a while but on Artist it was 100% there, unless its also removed now which hoenstly I dont mind too much either cuz in her case she was way too oppressive in a 1v1 chase.
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Idk why you again try to twist my words, I was the happiest man alive when the black screen in basement bug for survivors got fixed or doctor's disable of ds when survivors are in p3.
You dont know obviously what I complained or didnt complain about in the past and I dont blame you, but stop trying to villainizing me only cuz you disagree with me. Makes you look childish.
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Why would they need to give anything in return for fixing a bug?
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There are massive differences in what's being described- namely things that give unintended advantages vs things that don't,
Sky Billy's removal was bad, because that did not give a substantial advantage to the player (at least, in my opinion).
Hug Tech does give an advantage which the devs have confirmed is unintended.
Retaining bloodlust does give an advantage, which was confirmed as a bug when the devs fixed it. It didn't work like every other killer power in the game, and now it does.
Remember that Pyramid Head bug where you could tap your M2, go into the cooldown animation for your power, while activating your power again to essentially get instant POTD? It made him stronger, I abused that bug whenever I could because it was fun and made reacting to my power 30x harder, but it was still a bug that provided an unintentional advantage and deserved to be fixed.
There's a very careful balancing act that needs to be walked between adopting bugs as features and allowing more free gameplay, and realising when something is unfair and fixing it.
Going by your logic, the Breakdown bug shouldn't have been fixed because it provided more viable perks for survivors to help diversify the meta. Range Nurse shouldn't have been fixed, because it's just another way to build her. Infinite Mending Legion should have remained because it's another playstyle you can choose to run, to give yourself multiple options. Same with moonwalking Legion.
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Cuz dredges m1 chase is still very weak. His locker teleport is pretty much fine and the overall streangth of the Killer is good, but the 1v1 chase in particular is very weak and still needs small tweaks.
There are quiet a bunch of loops where your remnant ability is useless cuz you walk way too slow while channeling.
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Using your power is always supposed to cancel bloodlust p sure
No matter the Killer, I think the only one who it doesn't at the moment is maybe Sadako?
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It does not matter if something benefits Survivors or Killers. If it is unintended, it should be fixed. And this is what they did.
I also did not mean you specifically with "players", otherwise I would have said "you". But it is a common thing that DBD-players complain about the many Bugs of this game, but they also complain when Bugs which helped them get fixed.
It is totally fine that Dredge is not able to utilize Bloodlust in a better (and unintended) way. If someone wants to bloodlust, they should at least spend time for that. It remeains cheap, but is at least time-consuming. But regardless how someone feels about this, the most important thing is that it was a Bug and Bugs should be fixed.
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These are extreme cases you take here. My "tech" was another tool in a chase which had plenty of counterplay, you see the dredge channeling, when you see that you have all the information you need to know. You can act upon that and still see and hear my remnant sitting at the other corner of the jungly gym and I just bait you. In other words, another 50/50 mindgame but just a different way to use it, instead on a pallet the pallet is the ENTIRE tile around both of us.
My bug doesnt make you mend 10min or make you bleed out mid chase without any counterplay. My bug doesnt make dredge an broken or extremely unfun Killer.
It was another tool in a chase to maybe get a free hit. Its basicly just a mindgame.
I am not supporting bugs that are gamebreaking which should be pretty much clear tbh but I am kinda getting annoyed beeing vinnailized from the majority here so ye I guess I am now an bug abusing cheater so ye go on I guess.
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Of all the reasons I think Dredge is a great killer, Bloodlust out of Remnant isn't on the list.
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So why is it not in the "bug fixes" section?
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I feel just bug fix for consistency
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The counterplay to seeing a Dredge place their Remanant is to leave the tile, similar to that of Artist, Doctor, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, etc. And yet all of these killers lose their bloodlust when doing this, and are slowed during the channeling of their power, to allow for this counterplay. Dredge being allowed to retain bloodlust means that counterplay of leaving the loop is no longer good counterplay, because it is a 115% killer with bloodlust, which catches up substantially quicker than a 115% killer without bloodlust does.
The bug provided an unintentional advantage that removed a substantial amount of counterplay. Either you could bait the remnant, which would be massively less successful because bloodlust, or you could leave the loop, which would be massively less successful because bloodlust. It became the fabled lose-lose situation of old.
I think you're massively underselling the power of keeping bloodlust through a forced 50/50, when the power is clearly designed around you not having bloodlust to make it fair and engaging. Bloodlust makes that an unfair 50/50 and thus is a bug which provides an unintentional advantage that Survivors will have to play around without knowing if you'll even abuse it, and the options are to either fix it or officially incorporate it into kit. BHVR clearly chose to fix it.
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The difference is that Dredge is clearly the weakest of all these mentioned Killers in a 1v1, not overall Killer power. I am not underselling this "tech" because your power you channel is literally not usable on 30% of the loops in the game. I am also not trying to say that Dredge is the weakest Killer ingame or something, what I am saying is that his 1v1 (NOT OVERALL POWER) is by far one of the weakest out of the entire roster and desperately needs buffs.
It should be clear to you if you play 1v1 chases against good survivors.
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It's a consistency thing, all Killers are supposed lose bloodlust while using their power
Their individual strength doesn't matter, it's meant to be a global balance thing
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Now I just know there's no way you're saying Dredge is worse than Doctor in this regard.
But fine, I'll bite.
Wraith has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Billy has arguably a worse 1v1 than Dredge unless you're an absolute god. Loses Bloodlust.
Myers has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Hag has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Bubba has arguably a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Freddy has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Pig has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Legion has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Ghost Face has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Sadako has a worse 1v1 than Dredge. Loses Bloodlust.
Do we see my point? Every single killer in all of DBD loses their Bloodlust when using their power. Dredge does not deserve to be special.
The bug was fixed. End of.
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Ye I see it the same way if you look at it at that direction and I agree. Still its just sad and just wasted potential imo.
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I get what you mean overall just like @Brokenbones also wrote. And I agree but my main point still stands, it is a wasted opportunity and makes Dredge less fun and unique.
I would have to test some of the listed Killers myself cuz I am not too sure about some of them but:
Wraith's power works different then the other powers, you physicly CANNOT chase survivors in your cloak and therefore cannot gain Bloodlust.
Billy and Bubba have an active "oneshot" ability to directly injure and down survivors, it is a so called "harmfull" ability so you lose bloodlust just like a lunge attack.
Freddy - not too sure, but I recall not losing bloodlust placing snares or pallets.
Pig - harmfull ability
Legion's slash is a harmful ability
Ghostface and Myers doesnt lose bloodlust marking survivors or stalking, they lose it after lunging.. which is quiete obivous why right?
Sadako not sure I dont play her.
Hag keeps her bloodlust after you teleport. (Also old this knowledge, didnt touch hag since last year)
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The way I see it, if your ability influences your chances of getting a hit, it should remove bloodlust.
Take Doctor - his power doesn't injure you directly, but it does influence your chances of getting a hit.
Same thing with Clown.
Ghostface and Myers have to slow to a crawl to stalk and if you stalk for too long, the chase will actually end automatically which removes Bloodlust I'm pretty sure
Sadako's a weird one, I don't actually think manifesting/demanifesting removes bloodlust because you can start chase while demanifested, gain bloodlust and then manifest. They might've fixed that though
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Freddy loses bloodlust placing puddles and pallets.
Myers loses bloodlust the second he hits stalk.
Ghostface loses bloodlust the second he cloaks.
Sadako loses bloodlust the second she demanifests.
Pig loses bloodlust the second she crouches. Crouching isn't harmful.
Legion loses bloodlust the second they enter Frenzy. That's not in and of itself harmful.
Bubba and Billy both lose bloodlust by tapping their chainsaw buttons. That in and of itself is not directly harmful.
Do we see my point yet?
So again, why should Dredge be any different?
He shouldn't be.
Side note: it really doesn't seem like you know how bloodlust works with regards to powers.
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