How is Sadako the worst killer?
I don't understand the idea that Sadako is placed as the worst killer in some tier lists, I don't even understand how she's the worst stealth killer, I think Myers is worse than Sadako because he literally needs set up that if he can't get he loses a lot of gens and he can't traverse large maps as quickly, obviously this is my opinion so why do people think she is the worst?
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I don't think she's the worst either.
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I don't think she's the worst...but she's not very good either
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I like her a lot, honestly. Everyone will have different play styles and preferences when it comes to killers, especially stealth Killers, so they definitely may view a killer more of less favorably through that (which is absolutely ok; even if I disagree, I like seeing why people feel a certain way on things).
I adore Myers and Ghost Face to the Entity's Realm and back, but honestly, I really like Sadako over them. Don't get me wrong, I have definitely had more matches than I care to admit where I struggled with her... like, a LOT lol but I've had many matches where I did well with her too.
Heck, I decided to try for some adepts last Sunday (I don't normally play for achievements very often), and Sadako was one of the ones I got on Eyrie of Crows:
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I don't think she is either.
I recently watched Otz bring on the #1 Sadako from EU, who was on a 60 win streak and his playstyle was very different from the standard Sadako. His playstyle focused on teleporting and keeping people from turning in tapes so he could mori them. He wouldn't go for hooks AT ALL. Definitely can see how he pug stomps with it.
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Sadako essentially doesn't have a useful power. Hey power is only useful at mindgameable loops. But good survivors aren't going to fall for her mindgames.
Mikey at T3 on the other hand.
Exposed: Literally cuts chase time maybe by 78%
Extended Lunge
Faster Vault Speed
Faster Break Speed
All these benefits is way better than what Sadako power can go.
Map pressure
Sadako has better map pressure, but the only issue is that her TV's take way too long to turn back on. Which hurts her imo.
Stealth
Sadako has a lullaby they let's survivors know she in the vicinity.
Only audio queues Mikey's stealth gives, is his breathing in which if you can hear him, your already too late.
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She is better than a lot of people say she is.
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I'm not gonna respond like the others here... entirely anyway, but...
"Meh" is my overall feeling about Sadako. It's not without its reasons though, as while she can be pretty decent, she does have some ups, but some major DOWNS as well. Here's my overall assessment that makes her a "meh" experience:
She's got great map pressure potential.
Which is unfortunately instantly defeated by the fact that when she uses it, it takes down one of her TV's/Teleport locations for 100 seconds, whereas survivors can take them down for 60 seconds at a time by taking a tape and shutting them off. TBH, shouldn't this be inverted? Like if she uses it, the TV should stay down for 40-60 seconds, but if a survivor shuts it down, it should be for 80-100 seconds. That way, survivors are more encouraged to risk gaining more stacks of condemnation by denying her the thing that gives her map pressure, then she'll be able to apply that pressure more frequently, while having a higher chance of giving them more condemnation stacks, and they will be encouraged to counter her by taking up a tape and shutting off TV's. IDK, that just feels like it's the better way to help her function as a pressure heavy killer.
She's got the worst stealth in the game.
Let me be clear: Ranged killers with a Lullaby radius makes sense (they have the range to make up for the early warning with their ranged attack), Stealth Killers on the other hand... yeah no. Why spoil the surprise that stealth killers represent with an "Early Warning System" if you're not gonna also give them a Ranged ability? Stealth killers thrive off of getting close enough for a basic attack without anyone but the most observant realizing they're there, and ruining that "Surprise Attack" potential for any Stealth focused M1 killer, just makes them pathetic. On top of that, She's also intermittently visible within 24 meters while in "stealth" mode for 1.5 seconds, and invisible for only 1 second, which tbh, feels more survivor favored, I'd rather it be more balanced in a 1/1 or 1.5/1.5 increments between visibility and invisibility just to be more fair to both players. You'd think the Devs learned their lesson when it came to the infamous "noisy Ghostface PTB Debacle" Wherein when GF was in Night Shroud/Undetectable mode, he had a 20 meter radius "Ghostly wind" noise around him that was also directionally audible. The playtesters really tore into the devs over that one, and they removed it by the time he went live. While Onryo/Sadako's Lullaby is omnipresent instead of directional, it's still a dead give away that she's within 24 meters of you, and that, like PTB GF, defeats the purpose of having stealth at all doesn't it? If they simply removed this aspect of her kit, then she'd be scarier to face and better at pulling off the jumpscares. FFS, she's basically like if wraith had freddy's intermittent visibility when survivors are awake + huntresses lullaby, and again Wraith's bell sound when he uncloaks. Which leads me to my next point...
Speaking about her "early warning system"... She's too damn noisy for her own good.
Aside from the aforementioned complaint about her unnecessary Lullaby radius, She's actually almost as loud as DEMOGORGON (aka the loudest killer in the game). Don't get me wrong, I get needing to have sounds from the killer when they break things, attack, open lockers, and get stunned, but come on! Everything she does has a directional (if not global) sound applied to it including: Manifest/De-manifest, Teleport to a TV (both global and directional if nearby the TV she's Teleporting to), Vault a window, snuff a totem, Phasing in and out while de-manifested, Blinded, and picking up/dropping survivors, honestly, the only thing she doesn't have compared to Demogorgon is his 16 meter loud stomping sounds! All of this would be fine except for 1 key difference between her and Demo... let me re-iterate: SHE'S (supposed to be) A STEALTH KILLER!
Dev's please, tell me: What's the point of having a stealth option and low terror radius, if practically everything you do not only warns survivors of your presence ahead of time, but also constantly gives away your position and what you're doing?
With enough practice, she's at least decent.
Make no mistake, a good killer player will find her fun and enjoyable, but only IF they first put up with a crapload of losses learning her. Unfortunately though, she's only as good as the game allows her to be, and no matter the skill of the player, or what add-ons/perk builds they use, she'll never be more than decent, and "decent" simply doesn't cut it in the high SBMM range (there's a reason why the killer pool is so limited at the high end). Yeah, after some initial struggles, she's fun to be around, but not someone you'd want to get intimate with, much less commit to in the long run. "Sorry Onryo, I think of you more like a friend or a sister... awww, don't feel bad. You wanna hug?"
Her "passive" is GARBAGE (condemnation/videotapes mechanic)!
'Nuff said there, honestly, if I already didn't spell out how useless and non-threatening to survivors it is, almost everyone who criticizes her mechanics already has (and then some). It needs a buff at the very least, and if not a buff, a rework of it's own.
So yeah, she's "meh" and not really worth the price of admission TBH, which is a real shame for a Licensed Character who can't be bought with iri Shards. If you're feeling "Buyers Remorse" over it, sad to say, but BHVR's current stance is:
"Thanks for the cash, we promise you'll get your monies worth, maybe 2 years from now, maybe more, but eventually for sure!"
Sigh...
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This. You have to play her very differently to be effective. Gotta get those condemn stacks.
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I don't think I've ever once gotten to use her Condemned Mori. It seems basically useless. Like when I first played her, I teleported TV to TV like Nightcrawler on cocaine because I specifically wanted to Condemn someone but never had it work.
If Condemned felt like it did anything I'd think she is higher on the list but as the killer I've never gotten to use it and as a survivor, I've never once had to even sweat about it.
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Not true. Its not useless. You just aren't playing her right/bringing the wrong load out. Like I said, the #1 EU Sadako Otz brought onto his stream recently, basically proved this was false as he's been on a 60 win streak (possibly higher now since that was like a week ago). Check out the vod and catch some tips. Dude went against a 200 win streak 4man SWF to see how well he'd do and he still put up a decent fight (SWF won ofc).
She isn't horrible. There are a lot of other killers you will struggle to get win streaks on. And the fact someone is able to do a 60+ win streak on Sadako says enough.
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She's not the worst, but she has a lot going against her. Her teleport has an insane cooldown for using it on top of survivors being able to turn it off whenever they want, her passive is really bad and won't have an impact (even as slowdown, survivors can completely ignore it) in a normal-speed match unless you run a very specific build and play erratically to try and force it, survivors can easily remove Condemned mid-chase in the blue moon scenario you actually threaten someone with it (which in turn makes it risky to try to use the Condemned playstyle, you can sink in the effort and still get no visible value), and her stealth is horrible because her lullaby broadcasts her presence. Her kit has a lot of things in it, but she isn't good at any of them. She's not even a jack-of-all-trades like Demo; she's more of an amateur-in-all-trades.
And Myers isn't a great comparison, because I do consider him the worst killer, or at least tied with Trapper. Granted, both Myers and Trapper both have snowball potential Sadako really doesn't, so maybe some people value that higher. But she's less map dependent and doesn't have the crippling early game they do, so she's not complete bottom of the barrel, just really close.
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Ones I play against are always really good
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bhvr scammed you people with a killer with no chase power and a useless side mecanic, a useless stealth, useless addons.
and then the very next chapter they designed a killer with probably the best tp ability in the game, a chase power, good addons, unique and scary design, a side mecanic that actually helps (nightfall) but you guys still wanna argue that she is good WOW.
the question should be, why play sadako over dredge or wraith or freddy i even think trapper might be stronger than her but that's debatable.
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She counters her own stealth, her map wide pressure is awful with huge cooldowns and condemned does nothing unless you force it as a gimmick.
I understand you might enjoy her. I enjoy her. But I don't load into a sadako game expecting to win.
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She's not the strongest but she is super fun to play as and against. I'm definitely a Mikey main so I get the love for stealth killers.
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So everything about Sadako can be ignored or countered. You can turn off her map mobility (quite literally) which no other mobility killers have to deal with. Her curse passive is laughable, you can ignore it all game basically, her stealth is given away by the static lullaby and she still has to unphase to hit you.
T3 Myers is actually threatening, especially if he's running bamboozle, while Sadako doesn't feel threatening at any point in the game
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Because she is fun lmao.
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i am glad you're having fun with her, i just hope bhvr gives her some love in the future so she's accessible to more people.
idk how tho it'd be a difficult task and just changing some numbers would be lame.
plus idk if her mains even think she needs anything haha.
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I mean just turning off the dumb static lullaby would be a step in the right direction
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Sadako isn't the best killer for sure. But she's far from being the worst. Plus this game isn't our "job". People play because they have fun. And Sadako is very fun to play in my opinion. I like her very much. I grind for her bloody clothes right now. GOTTA HAVE THEM!
Maybe it would be nice for her directional lullaby to be removed, and devs should take a look at her underwhelming addons, but otherwise she is really fun to play
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She's really fun, until you start going against good survivors, then you're an M1 killer with no power playing pallet break sim 2022
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Well I have been going against good survivors. I can't avoid that after playing her quite a while
Actually the new awful RPD map was quite good on her, having a smaller multilevel area where she has no problem moving around, and because of the TV-s being closer grouped up since the size of the map is smaller, I was able to remove her TR quite a bit making her a quite scary killer
She's especially good on smaller maps like RPD and Midwitch, but I have no problems on others either.
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MM can have inifnite T3 with his best addon. If you are good with him at being sneaky you can often get to T3 before you lose one gen.
The Ring can never have that. She has mobility but no power. She is literally one of the worst killers in a chase. What is there to not understand?
Michael has two built in tools to help him during a chase as he has a fast vault in T3 and he has extra lunge range. What does the Ring get? She can phase through people with her manifest. Guess who has the same trick while stalking? Also nobody can take protection hits from MM when he's in t3 because you instantly go down.
-"She's especially good on smaller maps like RPD and Midwitch"
All the "bad" killers are good on small maps.
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I meant she's good on smaller maps, because her teleports can navigate those infuriatingly clumped small maps with ease
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A build and a playstyle that's only possible with pink and green/purple add-ons, and has probably failed as many times as it has succeeded. Besides, play her in any way other than that, and she has basically nothing on the survivors. It's not like Blight who can run a variety of builds and still have a good chance of winning each time.
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One thing i learned from this community is that they are horrible at rating things
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If you're not having issues on other maps, you're not playing against good survivors. (Or you're camping/tunneling real hard)
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She's ok, but I don't support this whole "she is underrated" talk because she obviously needs some help.
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Better than Trapper, Pig or Myers i'd say.
One advantage of Sadako is that she's rare and most survivors don't know her mechanics well.
Otherwise she's a somewhat stealthy m1 killer with decent map navigation ability, definitely not the rock bottom of tier lists, I rate her somewhere above Legion and just a bit weaker than Nemesis.
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While this may be true, one single person that does well with her does not make her a top tier killer on the grand scale of things.
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It's simple really - she doesn't really do anything.
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This is the same argument that some people use to say that Nurse needs a basekit nerf: the top player in the world got a huge winstreak. By this same logic, Sadako needs a basekit nerf.
The very top players will always be statistical outliers, and it's fallacious to try to argue a killer's relative strength from those data points. The #1 Clown player probably pub-stomps too.
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The one take away from most conversations i see on here about killers being underpowered usually is dependant on the player. People must have this odd belief you can just pick up any killer and be good withing a few matches. That isnt the case and shouldnt be the case. as each killer is so different from one another. People often times want to deny that the real issue is that they just arent very good with a certain killer, and by that fact alone i take any ranking of killers with a grain of salt. As a survivor you can tell the difference in these so called weak killers when they are put in the right hand of a skilled person playing that killer. But overreaction is typical on any forums so i guess its to be expected
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I really don't think there is an unviable killer in dbd, all killers are strong in their own right just some better than others. Some people like to say she is "weak" when in reality she is just not as good as the higher tier killers, which doesn't mean she is bad lol
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It's also worth noting how many times did he have to camp/tunnel to achive the wins
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I have the same issues like I have with any other killer. and I manage them.
and not playing against good survivors? what do you mean? You think Sadako's mmr is turned off and I always get "bad survivors" in order to win my games? It doesn't really make any sense, does it?
I'm getting good survivors all the time since my own winrate is quite very high with Sadako. Don't worry I'm aware who I'm playing against. If you enjoy playing a killer, you can get quite good managing it's drawbacks
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In any case she's quite cool. Probably not the best killer I can down fast with but certainly far from worse and she can be used in many ways. She even has a basekit whispers with the TV-s playing a video when survivors are around (the tv-s are playing static when they are not), so you know where to look for them
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Posting screenshots of a 4k means nothing because we don't get to see what leads up to that lol. (Could have slugged/campped/tunnled etc)
Like, you can like the killer, you can find her fun, but she's not good, no matter how you try to rationalize it
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Well I am comfortable playing and winning with her, that's all. And you don't see even on the screenshots me being blamed for slugging or camping. But of course you can imagine anything you want and add it to the story lol.
In any case, Since I main her lately, I play against swf-s quite often also, fully equipped, ready to make my game difficult. And I still enjoy playing Sadako, and I don't really fail much in my games. I'm not sure why you dislike if people say they are doing well with this killer, you don't need to jump to conclusions, if you don't perform well playing Sadako. Not everyone is you.
As I said, the only thing I would like to change is probably her directional lullaby, because that's a bit annoying, but otherwise I'm happy with this killer and my winrate using Sadako
Do you realy think that I would main her nowadays if she would be that bad? What am I? A voluntary self punisher in your opinion? :))
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She's not as bad as many people think but let's be honest, worst killer is either her or GF.
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I don't see any of your games so I don't really know what goes on, you're correct. I make the asumptions I make from personal experience, and any time I see a TV when I load in, I automatically know it's going to be an easy, relaxing game, and I'm never wrong on this.
I never feel threatened at any point, and I only see Sadako get 2-3 hooks and usually she's forced to camp and tunnle for 1 kill. If she gets anymore than that it's because my team throws real hard.
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I don't know what's going on in your games, you're correct. I make the assumptions I make from persona experience, and anytime I see a TV when I load in I automatically know it's going to be an easy, relaxing game, and I'm never wrong on this.
I never feel threatened by her, and I see her only get 2-3 hooks and usually she is forced to camp/tunnle for 1 kill. If she gets anymore than that it's because my team throws really hard.
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