Dead hard went from OP(according to killers) to complete garbage
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It's not garbage.
It's been tied for the most common perk in my last 95 killer matches (all since the meta update) at 97 appearances, tied with OTR.
That's been more than a quarter of survivors. It's still an incredibly popular and effective perk. Nightlight has it's use rate 21% in the last 2 weeks, crow sourced from thousands of matches.
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Ah yes. Because they give us 1 buggy mid tier killer with 2 new skin and 1 bad 1 mid and 1 good perk. And survivor gets 2 new characters 4skins and 5/6 good perks.
Just from a business point of view thats just factually wrong.
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It is garbage. Only killer mains think it is OK because they don't have to be concerned about it now. Because it is still used doesn't mean it is a good perk.
We have to remember that practically 99%, maybe close to 100% of survivor perks are completely garbage. Survivors don't have choices when it comes to perks. Especially when you compare them to killer perks.
I almost never see a game where a killer perk doesn't win the game for them.
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deadhard was never a beginner-friendly/casual perk. I remember when I first started playing the game, my more experienced friends would tell me to run deadhard and I would literally never get value out of it. EVER. the only plausible part where a beginner or casual player would get value from DH was towards pallets or windows, which as we know, is not really the intended purpose of the perk.
if you're using it to tank/avoid a hit (as intended) it required at least a relative amount of skill and timing to get that value. And it still does require skill and timing, as it should. I still don't know how to use deadhard, and I know before the nerf that casual dbd players who weren't the most experienced in the game struggled to use it to efficiently dodge hits. It's never been a casual or beginner friendly perk, let's not lie to ourselves
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When you can post a source to back up your information ill gladly rescind my comments and concede to you. Until then anything you say is hearsay and can't be backed up by data. I have posted the best data I was able to find and until proven otherwise its the only data that proves that SWF is much lower than soloq. I can say that unicorns exisit all day but until I provided any sort of proof I don't think you would believe a word of it.
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That's unfortunate for you i suppose but I have a friend that can only play one day a week and he was able to get value out of dead hard in most matches. Now before anyone reading this freaks out I'm not saying DH didn't deserve the nerf it got, I'm simply stating that it gave new players an advantage to be able to get out of a few hits from the killer. Maybe not every game but there was still value to be had from it.
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Wow you think that most of the new perks are good. I've only seen reassurance, wire tap and better than new in a few games. So tell me you don't play survivor without telling me. Your argument about skins and characters means nothing because ever character is interchangeable and basically just a skin themselves. As far as actual skins go, that's just BHVR milking their customer base with cosmetic micro-transactions just like every game developer these days. It means nothing. At least wesker has a unique ability and from what people keep saying on the forums is just a lower tier nurse.
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I still use dead hard. Get good.
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It's still irritating to this day,difference is that you can at least invalidate it with killers that apply deep wound (namely legion) so they can't use it.
Any other killer? Same ol "wait it out" nonsense when survivors are literally using it to get to pallets or windows (which is the exact same thing they were using it for before,difference is that this DH gives no distance.)
I'm not saying it's broken,it's just irritating for the sake of it as opposed to being actually unfair like original DH
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Skill issue
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They really need to bring back hit validation for it. No idea why they removed it.
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I am very much aware at the loss of DH for distance. My point is that while DH for distance is now completely gone, DH to "dodge" a hit is stronger now than it was before (which is fair IMO because that requires precise timing to reap the reward). The risk is higher because of the chance to miss, but the reward now for succeeding on the risk is higher than before.
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Nah its still good, I use it every game. Prefer this one over old one. Old one just flat out carried me
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I think we are actually in agreement here, but are getting lost in language. My point is that new dead hard is much more risky (harder to time and very finnicky) but not as rewarding as old DH to use. I say this because old DH gave you free distance regardless of a hit or miss from the killer, on top of the endurance. You are "rewarded" with two abilities in one. New DH, rewards you distance only in the case of a hit, and that distance is null if you aren't already at a pallet. You're incredibly likely to go down regardless if not. {S.I.C--Decisive Strike- Post 6.1.0} The distance gained from a hit with new DH, is nothing compared to the free extra tile, loop, or etc.. that old DH basically guaranteed. Therefore, lower reward, higher risk.
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Old DH was two abilities in one. Endurance, and a distance dash. New DH is just one, and only works if you actually take the hit. Even if you get the timing right, (extremely finnicky with a small window) you have to be close to a pallet for any real value. Old DH could almost guarantee another tile, loop, etc.. New DH gets you a pallet drop or maybe a protection hit at best, and dead on the ground the other 95% of the time. Therefore, higher risk, lower reward.
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this perk takes skill now! Boo-hoo boo-hoo
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well in that case, shouldn't it still be just as good? old DH and new DH have the same 0.5 second window, so if survivors were previously able to use that window to dodge a hit, they should still be able to use that exact same window to tank a hit. In fact, if the killer DOES swing for the dead hard, you get even more distance than old dead hard. You get the speed from being hit and the killer still has their cooldown from hitting you, you can make it easily to a window or a pallet with that. The only problem with deadhard is killers waiting it out, which from what I've seen and experienced can be a pain in the ass to do, but that was also a thing with pre-nerf deadhard too (unless it was used for distance). Though most survivors will spin into you when theyre about to do it, so there's a cue.
Ill agree with one thing tho, deadhard does seem a little buggy right now. In 1v1s with my friend they tell me they often press e, get exhausted, but nothing happened and they go down. So yeah, there's that, but that doesn't mean it needs a buff- it needs to be FIXED.
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you get a burst of speed from getting hit that is much much greater than the old deadhard 'sprint' or whatever you want to call it, giving you huge distance between you and the killer. With that burst of speed, you can easily make it to another tile and if you're good, extend that chase another minute. High risk, high reward. DH shouldn't be a get out of jail free card, you should have to take that hit to get that distance.
And for the sake of argument, the whole 'high risk high reward' thing is a saying assuming something goes right. The 'high risk' part of the statement already attests to the possibility that you could fail and go down. The 'reward' is in the case of success- so a successful deadhard being pulled off, which is very rewarding in a chase. So it's high risk (there is a chance you can go down as a result) and high reward (if you do it right, you get a burst of speed and make a lot of distance, possibly to another window or pallet)
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(according to killers)
Us vs Them
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I play mostly survivor and Dead hard was beyond OP ,,it now takes some good skill (and ping ) to use to its max potential ,,as much as i miss it it got rightfully nerfed
Post edited by Entitled_survivor on0 -
I would actually argue that new dh is stronger than the old one.
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90% of what you just said, was already stated in my last few comments. We're comparing a perk that barely works, and when it does only gives you a small amount of distance that most killers can mitigate anyways... to a perk that this community has been crying about for eon's on it's busted ability to extend chases and secure loops/tiles with borderline ease (with a degree of skill). Just by bringing old DH in the match you were already "rewarded" with two insanely good abilities, on top of the psychological value of killers having to strategize around said busted perk. As mentioned in a previous comment, I have yet to see (from both killer and survivor POV) new DH add anything more than maybe a few seconds or a pallet drop to chase. Anyone on this forum can tell you horror stories of the crazy plays old DH was capable of.
If you are unable to see the value difference in the two, I'm afraid I can't help you.
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We are not in agreement. I think new DH is more rewarding than old DH because new DH can give you more distance than old DH if you successfully tank a hit. Old DH is more versatile, but the peak payoff of new DH is higher.
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So you're equating more distance with higher value, but if that were the case, Overcome would still be and have been the most rewarding perk, no? I would say that's not sound because you are arguing distance alone (of new DH) is worth more than the countless broken ways old DH could be used for both distance AND protection virtually automatically. Further, I would say that versatility trumps distance categorically in this regard as the ideal strat for using DH in the first place is to massively extend chase time and provide a buffer against the killer (third health state). Having a perk that barely functions, and is only really valuable at pallets, is not more rewarding than a perk that can do all the aforementioned things and more (with all the techs in mind). Yes, new DH gives you more distance, but old DH gives you more options with a much safer approach. Both of those factor in when considering how "rewarding" this perk could be. If you had played against skilled survivors running it before the nerf.....we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Overcome does not effectively give you a third health state, so the reward for Overcome is nowhere near as high. The comparison does not hold water IMO.
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Unless a dev says otherwise, I have a feeling DH validation is gone.
Also, the challenge for dodging a hit with DH doesn't seem to work either.
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I urge you to read this once more, and think about how you thought this made sense, and while we're at it, do the same for the original post. Dead Hard, just like before, puts killers in lose-lose situations, either you swing at the survivor at the pallet and give them the speed boost, or get pallet stunned. I won't say that you just suck at using dead hard, because i agree that latency and validation plays a huge part in wether you get downed or not, but i still think this perk is a really strong one and that the change from its inicial state was necessary, if you think bhvr did a good job changing this perk or not (i think it's a no, the perk should've been removed entirely, not reworked) doesn't really matter because they don't give a ######### anyways.
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It is still decent though and not completely broken like old DH was... but then I don't really run Exhaustion perks other than maybe Head On just for the lol value I get from it
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i use it 4x against the killer in one round, its worked 1/4 i was shocked bc it was working one time :O
i say to myself "i can use med kit with a styptic its worthwhile", as playing with a PERK that mostly dosent work, and i never got to the sitoation that (styptic medkit) it didnt work, NEVER happened!
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I would urge you to notice the date on the posts and maybe not to Necro 3month+ long dead threads, which gets frowned upon on these forums.
The people in those threads have left the discussion way behind them.
And if the topic is still relevant it is better to open a new one.
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But then I would lose the opportunity to post this.
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Ohh my first time seeing this. 😂👍
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even if i'm at the receiving end of the joke, that's still pretty funny, i'm keeping that one
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