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Gen Times - WARNING OTZ VIDEO WARNING - THERE IS AN OTZ VIDEO IN THIS LINK - THIS LINK HAS OTZ
What do you think of the current state of Generators/Repair Times?
Comments
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Toolboxes are unhealthy atm, they should not affect the repair speed. At least for me.
So toolboxes needs to be reworked. They should protect gen from regression when you use them on gens (for limited time ofcourse, it will depends on quality and charge of toolbox). So they will still be useful. But not unhealthy.
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make gens 80s again
nerf/remove rework prove thyself and bnps/toolboxes in general is what id like to see
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What are you talking about, that's not Otzdarva
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Thank you for the Otz warning.
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*not Not*
No problem. I hope it helped.
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I love the tombstone myers bit, lol.
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lmfao the title
golden
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At this point there isn't much they can do
Nerf Items... get ready for Survivor players wondering why it happened
Reduce Gen times.... get ready for Killer players wondering why it happened
Increase base Gen regression.... get ready for Survivor players wondering why it happened
Map changes... Get ready for all players wondering why it happened
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I think he makes a good point.
I've accepted that trying to spread damage is basically impossible as survivors have too many tools to allow them to out heal the rate in which I can damage survivors. Even if I dedicate a full build to anti-healing, it's still difficult to keep more than 2 survivors injured at a time simply because outside of sloppy other anti-heal perks are too conditional to get their full value.
Gens really don't feel much slower than before while having much weaker tools at defending gens which just feels bad.
Reassurance counters trying to pressure hooks and burn an extra health state which has certainly hurt a few games I've played.
It's really just come to the point that if you are playing to win as a killer, your best option is to tunnel someone out of the game as fast as possible. Nothing slows down the game as reliably as removing a survivor.
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My opinion is that the strongest perks and addons on both sides are still too strong, even after the midchapter. And this doesn’t apply just to gen perks and toolboxes, this applies to other stuff too.
90 second gens was a good change, but some slowdowns still need to be nerfed and/or were overbuffed. COB + overcharge at the very least probably should not stack. Eruption is too punishing for solo players. Pain Resonance is actually better than before in some situations because the regression is more than before (15% of 90 is more than 15% of 80). Deadlock is too effective for camping, but probably fine otherwise.
The strongest toolboxes (and BNPs) are way stronger than they have any right to be. Hyperfocus + stakeout is busted, even without a toolbox. Prove thyself might need to be looked at too. And I think there’s still a lot of frustration with 2 gens (or more) being done for 1 chase at the start of the game without corrupt intervention especially on the lower tier killers.
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Toolboxes are fine the way they are.
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There is no need to revert gens back to 80 seconds even if toolboxes get nerfed. There are other, much more important aspects that need changes that survivors would profit from.
Why merf killers by decreasing gen times back to 80 seconds if you could instead nerf camping and tunneling, and buff solo queue with new informatiin buffs?
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I dont think toolboxes need a nerf - survivor feels extremely punishing (at least solo q) already. Maybe perks that affect gen speeds could be changed, but if killers have access to addons that can really buff their kit (mdr, alc ring, iri tape etc) why shouldn't survivors be able to bring something that helps them out?
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MDR and alch ring need nerfs too. This goes both ways.
Iri tape is fine for now only because sadako is bad. When they buff her (which they should) that addon could get a nerf as well.
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Thanks for the Otz warning. Needed to set aside a 5 hour time block to watch the video :P
Okay, the section with Tombstone Piece got a genuine laugh out of me.
On the unpredictability - we have gotten some outliers recently, but a lot of those things have been in the game for a while too. I think the thing that's changed is that it was mostly items before, which are visible from the start, and now more perks are moving on that territory. So while I don't think Otz is wrong, the takeaway I'm getting isn't that gen/heal times are more unfair than ever, or that survivors being able to stall hooks is a bad thing. I'm more concerned about what he raised with subtle cheaters having more room to get away with things. A 45s solo gen would have been bullshit before, but now it's possible. A 4s heal mid-chase would have been bullshit a year ago, but now it's possible. And the report system is dysfunctional enough when cheaters are getting properly noticed and reported.
With gens themselves... I'm starting to feel like the only way gen times could be balanced is to change gen times depending on aggregate survivor MMR. There's just no universal way to balance the game for good and bad survivors at the same time. Certainly not while the game fails to account for comms efficiency.
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New video of Otz crying about X, yes playing against swf is sometimes unfair but as someone playing both sides I still escape 2/10 games in solo Q and I still get 3-4k most games, doing gens is the objective.. most killers are tunneling and rushing their objective too that's normal, it's getting more and more tedious to play survivor what we need is to stop with the nerfs
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I understand that, but realistically this is looking at the game with a viewpoint that everything must be of perfect balance. DBD is not that type of game and will never be that way, so I don't understand these repetitive nerfs to survivor when killer is staying relatively in the same spot (or being buffed), especially when solo q is really hard these days. I don't often swf tbh so that's my point of view, but perhaps a person who swfs more often may view the matter differently.
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I use hyperfocus and stakeout when i play survivor and i can confirm that combination + toolboxes + prove thyself should not exist. I can literally do gens so fast killers cannot keep up. Me and my boyfriend tested both using the perk combination and i felt disgusted.
Something needs to be done since i can see this becoming an issue on higher MMR.
edit: i cant type obviously
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Asking more nerfs for survivors :d How about we start survivors on dying statu? Would you feel happy after that?
You are talking about some stuffs are issue but you are not adding video for prove your words. Oh, silly me. You and your boyfriend tested it! So we need to trust your words!
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Medkits and Brand New Parts are the major pain points for me. They both just save the survivor team way too much time without a tradeoff and medkits make it so that injuring someone without downing them is basically a waste of your limited time. Medkits letting you heal yourself once or twice at normal speed for free per survivor is absolutely insane imo.
I don't really think toolboxes are a problem but BNP is a bit too strong and the toolbox skill checks shouldn't work with Hyperfocus.
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Nerfing hyperfocus is hardly an egregious survivor nerf, considering a.) it's a new perk that was only just introduced and b.) only the most skilled survivors can use it, so the hapless solo queue potatoes getting routinely slaughtered aren't going to notice a difference, only the streamlined top-notch squads that were already doing fine.
Stuff like "you all just want survivors to start out on hooks" is flanderization and contributes nothing to the discussion.
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You can be sarcastic all you want but this combonation works and makes the gens fly. I'm simply saying this will become issue on higher MMR where survivors are good and know what they are doing. Even on solos.
Theres a video on this threat that proves it to you that its broken and here you are saying you need prove? Look at the video. He is doing the gens alone. Add a survivor with another toolbox + prove thyself into that mix and yeah, you think thats good gameplay and fair?
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"good survivor perk exist"
Killer mains: Is this perk ackchyually problematic?
BHVR: Say no more! I love nerfing survivors!
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There is like a solid 5 videos each by content creators showing themselves getting a gen done in under 60 seconds solo with hyperfocus and stake out.
I cannot take anyone seriously who thinks a perk combo that takes at a minimum 30 seconds off of a gen is balanced.
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Are you doing ok?
You seemed to jump on that person with your hyperbolic/histrionic post...for stating something that is not outlandish at all.
Try being kinder and contributing to the discussion at hand in your next post :(
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It is not about wanting nerf or not. They called this combo problematic but yet they did not add any prove.
They can remove Hyperfocus anyway, perk by itself is garbage. The problem part is toolboxes, they need to be looked.
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Idk why people forget about C33. In fact I would say C33 is far stronger than Alch Ring. Alch Ring doesn't make it easier to hit survivors with lethal and you still have to be somewhat good at Blight for it to be impactful.
C33 not only hinders survivors making it easier to land lethal rushes, but also completely invalidates pallets. As an added bonus, you can't hide around a C33 blight because the blight also gets a score event for hindering you.
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Simple solution...Remove Medkits and toolboxes from the game. Just give survivors Flashlights, Keys (Useless since hatch is only when 1 survivor is left), and maps.
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I've read a lot from people and what I've gathered, almost anything a survivor has to do their objective or even HEAL themselves isn't fair and needs nerfed but all the killer gen regression perks that people LOVE to stack are fine and tunneling plus camping is also fine as long as the killers are winning. I guarantee that barely any of these people play survivor without being able to heal or do gens. It's obnoxious. Toolboxes, medkits and perks are fine. You know most of the time it's 100% Bloodpoints for Survivors? No one wants to deal with that role any more. Finally, I'm getting sick of people using the streamers as valid reasons to nerf things. Dude has done 100 win streaks with almost every killer at "high mmr" but gets rolled once and makes a video on how to nerf a perk xD
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I play solo queue Survivor mostly. My thing about removing toolboxes and medkits was sarcasm
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Okay that's cool and all but explain to me how soloing a gen in 45 seconds is balanced?
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This dude literally complain about everything
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Ah yea... These videos... But nobody is showing the part they are charging Stake Out stacks. Nobody is showing they are wasting time while doing that. Every time video is starting they are on gen with full Stake Out stacks! They probably wasting very good time while doing that. But no! This combo is problematic, it has to be!
I already said the problem part. It is toolboxes, they should not make gens faster. Without toolboxes, Stake Out + Hyperfocus combo is pretty meh. And Prove Thyself has counter perk, use Discordance. But no, burn the all survivor perks! Decent survivor perks can not exist.
Yes, i am doing good. Thanks for asking. Are you doing ok?
I think i was pretty kind. I did not insult them or i did not mock them. I don't know what was wrong but alright. I will be "nicer".
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Why are you able to stack 4 regression perks on top of each other to get value by doing nothing but your objective? To progress the game. Those skillchecks aren't easy to hit without other perks helping it and that means you don't have other perks to help you in chases. Choose your battles. Tell me why is it balanced to tunnel someone out of a match with 5 gens still up? I could play the same, tell me why, game. I told you why. Now tell me why its fair to stack 4 regression perks on top of each other while also tunneling like your life depends on it? Each progresses the game the same way. One makes it go up, another makes it go down until one side either escapes or dies. STOP trying to NERF survivors' ITEMS AND PERKS. Also, don't bother saying, "tunneling because gens too fast", argument. That's a load of bull and everyone knows it. People were tunneling when this game first was introduced before people knew how to even loop. If they took everything out for a survivor to use, most killers would STILL tunnel people out or face camp them to death. Final note: Don't use a streamer who has won 100 straight games on each killer for advice on how to nerf survivors for even EASIER matches. I guess 100 3k-4k's isn't enough to show that most survivors aren't gods.
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Imagine complaining about gen speed when most matches are ending with 3/4k's. I'd love to see the kill rate now, any higher than 50% do not touch gens.
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Thanks for the Otz warning, I almost clicked on this thread.
Scary times we live in.
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Getting those stacks is pretty simple to be honest. Also hitting good skill checks can be done without stakeout, so hyperfocus isnt completely useless alone.
I just think that they increased the gen speeds for a reason, which was kill rates were too low, and now they just simply erase that fix with 1 perk that stacks with toolboxes and stakeout.
Not everyone plays nurses and blights in this game. Slow killers and M1 killers are still struggling on the big maps and this perk isnt healthy for the game. You can disagree with me but i'm not a killer main nor am i a survivor main so i see both worlds and i have seen what good survivors can do with this perk.
Why do you think killers use 3-4 gen slows per match? Tunneling surely wont get easier with this.
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Busted?
Dude... Camon. Busted? Seriously? 5 Blinks Nurse was busted. Old Undying was busted. Old Dead Hard was busted. Old Decisive Strike was busted. Please.
If you are believing these stuffs are busted, i have not words for you. But you can play survivor with this combo and then you can prove this combo is busted. But i know you won't. And i know you can't. Because this combo is far from being busted.
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And again, you are going to blame wrong mechanics.
I already said toolboxes are problem and they should not exists with current statu. BHVR should rework them because i know fast gens are problem for most of killers. I am not ignoring this part.
But Hyperfocus + Stake Out combo is far from being problem. It is pretty meh combo. For each token, you are wasting 15 seconds in killer's TR. And if it is not multiple floor map, killer is probably know you are on gen. They can just chase you. Or you can hide in killer's TR for 4 stacks but you will waste very good time with that.
So i am saying again. This combo is meh, it is not good. Toolbox is the what makes this combo so good and they need to be changed.
Maps are off-topic but we both know, maps was always the biggest problem of DbD. They still are. Maps still need nerfs, so they can feel fair for both sides.
My problem was that with your comment. Hyperfocus does not need any nerf, it is alright perk. But toolboxes are not and they 100% needs to rework.
I hope my points are more clear.
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Oh no I agree. C33 is better than alch ring. I just mentioned the addons in the other person’s post. But I’m all for C33 nerf as well, it’s unbelievably busted.
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The game may not ever be perfectly balanced especially now with how much content there is and that’s ok. But we can still try to make improvements regardless.
Fwiw, solo queue absolutely needs some improvements, and soon. Not in 2 years from now.
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I actually like this, if they have different uses based on rarity that don't affect gen speed.
Perhaps for a limited time, prevent regression/explosion/more skill checks.
I almost never bring a toolbox because it's a boring item to use (yes, a FL/flashbang abuser), unless i find one in a chest and quickly drop it afterwards :D
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Heres an insane idea, both extremes should be toned like, hm, idk, the doubling of base BT given to survivors on the last major patch. Tunneling and camping should continue to be weakened but so should survivor outliers like doing a gen in 45 seconds solo.
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The point he's making is its like a basekit spirit vs a MDR spirit. One you have plenty of time to hear he make the corner and move but if she has MDR boom she's there already.
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Agreed. Back in the day a toolbox could be used on more than one gen & BNP was indeed busted. Imagine the reaction to old toolboxes these days.
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BT was a needed change. It didn't affect balance since the game was never based around tunneling 1 survivor out of a match. That was created early on. Its almost a guaranteed trade at a hook if a killer is camping so taking the trade, shouldn't allow the unhooked to easily be taken down quickly also for 2 free hooks. The fact that tunneling and camping is a thing PLUS killer perks to exasperate that on top of slowdown perks. "Streamer doesn't get another 100 3k-4k's so lets make a video about how busted a perk that actually can do something about it". You know most survivors switched to mostly gen perks? Its because of the tunneling and camping has gotten so bad that you cannot even get all the gens done if you're in Solo Q. This is a problem that some of the killer base has created and now has a ripple effect on EVERY killer. Fix your playstyle instead of trying to nerf survivors.
If I see one more person complain about a medkit that can heal you 2-3 times WITHOUT A PERK THAT WAS NERFED INTO THE GROUND, I'm gonna bust a blood vessel. We've come full circle. Nerf literally EVERYTHING a survivor has until you can easily sit in a corner and win. The Clowns' perk is fine, remember? That stupid fast skill check is fair? This perk is fair. I cannot heal then I can do gens. Nerf things that killers do before you look at the others' perks and items. Dude has over 100 wins in a row with each killer but we need to follow this video like a religion to nerf anything that a survivor uses? Final thing, if you think 10 seconds of BT to help survivors who are HELPLESS as they get unhooked from a killer is a buff instead of a QOL that was needed, don't talk to me about balance.
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Gut hyperfocus, gut medkits, gut toolboxes, gut everything at this point. Maybe, maybe after all that solo q will finally get those HUD icons.
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I'd be on board with nerfing the number of charges on toolboxes and add ons, but if you nerf the speed they'd just feel useless. You can get up to 52 charges, nerf them so the max you can get is about 36. Even if that just involves nerfing commodious and the add ons sligtly.
Also BNP is way too strong still, 25% of a gen instantly. It's nuts.
They could remove the first 15% entirely and it would still be worth using for a bonus 10% after hitting skillchecks.
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This could be even worse. Time it right before a hook to prevent Pain Res, or before a down to prevent Jolt/Eruption, you're deleting killer perks.
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Gen times were a real issue, the problem is that simply making them take longer was never the solution. Changing them from 80s to 90s was a bad move. Things like toolboxes should have been looked at instead, along with buffs to certain perks like Corrupt, things that slow the early game, but don't hamper survivors ability to knock out gens late game.
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