Currently in a match with hiding survivors
So I’m currently in a match with 2 gens left to complete as huntress and the last two survivors are hiding not doing gens. What do you propose? I’ve been wandering around for about 10 min now and haven’t heard a single gen be touched. I refuse to DC. Spin in circles?
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check the basement lockers
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They were crouched near the exit gate together. What a waste
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Slug them to make sure they don't get hatch. No mercy for hostage takers.
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If you have video evidence and you report them in-game + online on the support webpage, they can potentially even be banned. What they did is against rules and is considered refusal to participate in normal gameplay and taking the game hostage. It's a case-by-case basis, but it can be bannable.
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I would NOT take SuzuKR's advice if you were holding a 3 gen. That has gotten killers banned before. If that is the reason they were holding the game hostage, you would magically be at fault for playing your objective as they refused to do theirs. I wouldn't risk it.
Only report them if they arbitrarily decided to do it as the 2v1 started.
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"at fault for playing your objective"
If you are only defending your 3-gen without any intention to actually chase a Survivor, it is not the Objective anymore. If the Survivors try to do Gens and you just chase them away from them for a prolonged time, you are also holding the game hostage at this point.
But from OPs situation, there were 2 Gens left, so there would be no reason to only chase them away and protect a 3 Gen, because you will most likely get any Survivor in the span of at least 3 minutes (which would be the time it takes to do both Gens solo for the one not in chase).
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Are you serious, i can get banned because survivors do something dumb and complete all of the gens on 1 side of the map?
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This is why old hatch used to spawn earlier. If survivors are down to two most of you complainers expect them to give themselves up while not acknowledging there is nothing left for them to do. It would be nice to have some choices again.
Disgusting attitude, misguided anger.
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You can get banned if you are holding the game hostage. 3-genning is one thing. 3-genning and then never intending to actually chase the Survivor is another.
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Honestly keep searching.
break anything you can break and spam your power for the BP’s if you can but yeah it’s a game of cat and mouse might as well enjoy it.
Be patient… be a hunter.
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No, thats just wrong.
If you chase survivors you see and try to down them (you still can abandon a chase to check for gens before they are done, and maybe chase the other guy) you are fine. Your objektive is to kill survivors, and preventing them from doing gens is a way to buy you time to do it, but you still have to do it. Otherwise you just hold the game hostage.
But this wasn´t your situation in any case.
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Had two survivors do the same thing after an extremely tough start of game for them where their first two teammates were hooked super quickly (one spawned right next to me, other was grabbed at the nearest gen).
The two remaining hid in the basement of Grim Pantry for a while, but didn't think to look away when I roaming around stealthily (Ghostface) so killer instinct gave them away.
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When that happens, I usually just go watch a video
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
That's a false equivalency.
Defending a strong 3 gen is not remotely holding the game hostage in the same way locker hopping or hiding for 30 minutes is. Painting yourself into a corner does not compel the killer to escort one of your teammates on a tour of the map so you can get a possible out from your screw-up. The game can progress, it will just progress via your death. That's how it goes sometimes.
If you and your team allowed yourselves to be three genned so badly that you can't even progress one, that is your fault. There was the whole match up to this point to avoid the three gen. You lost, face the music.
The notion that the killer is somehow at fault for not allowing themselves to be baited from defending a trap of the surv's own making is total entitlement. That's like getting caught one move from an unavoidable checkmate in chess, then leaving the board and accusing your opponent of delay.
I've been in this position numerous times as a surv. Try to complete the gens in futility, get sacrificed (or maybe get hatch), move on to the next. The killer is not holding you hostage be refusing to give you a mulligan. Life will go on, I assure you.
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"All 3-gen situations are the fault of the survivors"
Yes, because there have never been killers in the history of DBD, that have ever purposely picked out a nasty 3-gen either right from the start of the match or middle of the match and spent the rest of the game being territorial and sticking around that one area. /s
So when I'm trying to do the gen in front of the Myers house on Haddonfield to avoid getting 3-genned, and the Legion keeps pushing me off of it and kicking it with Overcharge while refusing to chase me or any of my teammates away from that house, and my teammates end up doing all the gens on the other side of the map (because I'm not sure if you know this or not, but most survivors prefer doing gens in areas where the killer isn't around, especially against a Legion where they'd risk giving a 5-hit down) is it still me and my team's fault that we're 3-genned even though the killer was the one being stubborn from the getgo and there was literally nothing we could do to avoid it?
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3 and 4 gens on some maps are impossible to do in some solos where some survivors just don't know. The whole team is doomed if a survivor loops there the whole time. Killers know it, experienced survivors know it ,bhvr knows it. Survivors don't want to die, killers don't want to relent, it's an arm wrestling match and bhvr refuses to address the problem of gens being too close to one another.
Some maps are too small some maps are too big 3 and 4 gens can spawn on most of them and all it takes is one survivor with no game sense to tank the whole thing. Gens need to be more along the outside alot like the swamp has them. There's just no other way and until then suffer the the repurcussions of taking advantage of or not paying mind to imbalanced map layout/game design oversight.
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Yes technically it is. I have been on teams that broke a possible 3 Gen that a Killer was camping and protecting. It's not easy but it can be done, you say Legion was protecting the Gen Infront of the Meyers House to secure the 3 Gen....then why not do the other Gens that are on the same link. One survivor just has to keep Legion occupied while the rest of you do the gens.
You gotta use what you know the Killer is trying to do against them.
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Does not change the fact that if the Survivors try to do Gens and you are only scaring them away without any intention to actually chasing them, that YOU as the Killer, are holding the game hostage at this point.
At some point both parties have to commit to try to get their Objective done. For Survivors it is to try to repair Gens even if the Killer is in a strong 3-Gen. And for the Killer it is to commit to a chase, risking that the other person might get the Gen done in 90 seconds.
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It's fairly rare for a killer to sit on the same three gens all game, or for RNG to be so giving. But yeah, it happens on occasion. And in the overwhelming majority of the instances like the one the OP described, that is not the case. And good teams will break early three gens far more often than not, even if the killer sets out to hold them.
RNG giveth, and RNG taketh away. Killers are just as often rendered essentially helpless by RNG. Feels bad, but what can you do?
But we're kind of dancing around the core issue here, so let's just cut to the heart of the argument:
What is "holding a game hostage"? To my mind, it is preventing the game from progressing, up to and often including leaving the aggrieved party no alternative to get out of the game but to DC. Outside of hacking, there aren't many ways to actually take a game hostage.
Survs locker hopping and intentionally doing nothing but trying not to be found is probably the most common (again, outside of hacking) form holding a game hostage takes. Yes, the killer can find the hiding survs, but this is often a laborious and enormously time consuming task, and on many maps, almost impossible if the survs are any good.
Other than physically blocking a surv into a corner and refusing to move, there really isn't any way for a killer to do this. Sitting on a three gen is NOT taking a game hostage. It is trying to prevent the survs from escaping, but the killer isn't hiding, and there is a clear and probably expedient route of progression. It's just not one the survs like, which is what it boils down to. It's death, but it's still progression.
So no, the two things are not the same.
And let's not be disingenuous here; I've been in many of these situations as a killer and a surv. The vast majority of the time, once the 2 survs realize they're screwed, they either lean into it or they go incognito almost immediately. They don't lay low and then poke their head out to see if the killer is willing to chase, at least so rarely that you can say it doesn't really happen.
They hide until you find them, one turns on the other, or the killer DCs.
As for me, I may wait for a minute or two, but if it seems the other person is just going to wait it out, I just jump on a gen and roll with whatever happens.
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It's holding the game hostage if you cannot progress the game. Dying is progression. A killer trying to find the hiders is attempting to progress the game. Playing hide and seek and never touching a gen is not progression, or even an attempt at progression.
As a surv, I'd much rather die than than spend half an hour in a pig headed delay of an unwinnable situation.
If the three gen is so strong you literally can't progress at all if the killer doesn't leave, what is the point of having a standoff? I'll lose, but it has to be on my terms? In a chase? That's entitled toddler logic. Also, it's nothing so honorable as "come chase me and I'll stop hiding". That almost never happens. They hide, and hide and hide some more, until they screw up and get seen.
And again, in virtually all of these scenarios, including the OPs, the killer has gone out in search of the survs at some point, so they're holding up their end of your "both sides have to commit" bargain. But in almost all of these scenarios, the survs do nothing but hide. One is left with no conclusion other than the hiders are just spiting the killer because they can't win, or to trying to see if the other is found first.
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This game's end game is broken. What do you do when there's 2 guys left and the killer just patrols the remaining 1 or 2 generators? You have all of 10 seconds to sit on the generator before patrol comes back, and then he knows exactly where you are and you're dead.
The end game needs to be fixed.
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Why should the Survivors have to die when the Killer is holding the game hostage? With that logic you can also say that the Killer should go afk when they cannot find the Survivors because they are hiding.
You are not forced at any point to give up the game. Neither as Killer nor as Survivor. However, if the Survivors are hiding and not attempting to do Gens, they are holding the game hostage. If the Killer is just defending his 3 Gens without any intention of killing the remaining Survivors, they are holding the game hostage.
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I dunno, when an obvious swf has their best runner try to take you to the strongest point of the map as far away from the gens as possible, chasing is going to be a losing proposition. I'll usually sit on the 3 gen until they're fully regressed, pretend to start chasing the runner and double back to try to catch one of the weaker survivors out. If I catch them, hook them right in the middle of the 3-gen.
If not, repeat.
I mean, why take obvious bait and play into their hands?
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If a killer leaves a 3 gen to chase a survivor how is that any different than a survivor overcommitting to a gen instead of continuously running away, healing, then coming back? Neither side can be faulted for being strategic in a 3 gen, and for killers they have to be strategic by securing the position unless they are sure they will get a down fast enough to not take further damage. That means smacking but not chasing people until someone slips up and is out positioned. Its barely even in the killer's advantage anymore if CoH is in play, which puts the attrition war further in survivor's favor.
Defending a 3 Gen as a killer is like playing king of the hill/double domination/whatever similar flavor of gametype you see in the FPS of your choice. Taking out your opponent is winning the battle but chasing them away is losing the war, holding the position is securing victory.
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The issue here is potentially no one is at fault. Having been on both sides of this, I'd blame game mechanics, not the opposing player(s).
The objective is to escape for survivors, Gens just happen to be the best way to do so. However, in this case, the only logical the the survivor can do is attempt to hide and outlive the other player long enough to have a shot at hatch, as doing a gen is almost certain death. You simply cannot blame the survivor for doing this (and usually cant blame them for the 3 gen as usually, from what I've seen, it's the ones who are smart enough to not 3 gen that make it this far and their teammates arent exactly as smart as them)
The objective for killers is simple; kill survivors before they escape. The issue is, they can dominate so badly that it ends up impossible for survivors to do gens without dying, causing a stalemate where the killer cant find survivors, but the survivors have less than zero reason to reveal themselves. This is not the killers fault; they've done what they're supposed to do.
In the end, something needs to be done to detect and alleviate these situations, perhaps via conditional hatch spawning; if 2 survivors with 2 or more gens left arent in chase/damaged in, idk, 5 minutes? Then the hatch can spawn and a highlighted chest will contain a key (With both Killers and Survivors notified of its location) If not obtained in 30 seconds by a survivor it moves to another chest. If a selected chest is opened, it will close.
Would need tweaking of course, for balance and such, but something like this needs to happen, or the game mechanics need an overhaul before this problem will be resolved.
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see, this is an excellent post with a good suggestion. i would say that the broken end game with 2 survivors left, is the #1 pressing issue in DBD right now. It causes a lot of issues, like snitching, slugging, trolling, game hostage, etc.
Your suggestion is very good. If after 5 minutes, nobody has been found, then the hatch spawns with a key like you said in a chest somewhere. So killer cant just patrol gens, or else he risk hatch spawn
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Ah yes, reward survivors for dying and then hiding and refusing to play. Amazing idea.
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Ah yes, punish survivors and make them just hand themselves over to the killer and give up just because two of their teammates died. Amazing idea.
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Survivors are a team. So, if your teammates fail, it will also affect you. Don’t like that? Then don’t play on the side that relies on the team members doing well working together for victory. If half the team is dead and the generators aren't even done yet, the killer landslide stomped the survivors. This is just closing out what is realistically an already won game.
The survivors don’t have to give themselves up. They do have to attempt to repair generators. Being chased off is fine. Not attempting at all is circumstantially bannable.
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If the survivor could just die, they're objectively not being held hostage.
Hostage holding is a very specific term that refers to gameplay where one side cannot end the game by any reasonable means other than disconnecting.
Your argument is fundamentally flawed, mistaking being forced to remain in the game and being blocked from WINNING the game.
The facts are pretty simple and clear here.
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lol
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Agreed. I would keep monitoring gens, and just go around doing BP stuff like breaking doors, etc. And start opening lockers. I've gotten lucky. My routes between gens tend to get wider out and I start looking in weird places, like already done gens, or second stories, etc.
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Its not rewarding them, its changing the game to something that now encourages survivors to expose themselves, while giving killers a target that isnt just meander around the map until something happens.
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Or… they can follow the rules and attempt to do gens. They don’t deserve help in that situation.
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Are you still in the game?
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Yeah I had nurse defending 3 gen situation more than 40 minutes until she killed 2 my teammates. If my teammates would been more careful I think the match would lasted forever they took risks and died.
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Haha no thank god. I found them both crouching together in a dark corner near one of the exit gates eventually.
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And then they lose for certain. You see the issue now, or do I need to get some letter blocks to spell it out for you?
Its not about helping them, it's about not causing a stalemate that neither side is enjoying. Thats why the scape is a hatch, that neither increases or decreases MMR.
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Yes, it is almost like that is what happens when one side overwhelmingly stomps the other. Do you think if gates are opened while no one is on death hook, that the gates should become temporarily blocked and that all survivors should become temporarily Exposed and Mori'able so the killer has a chance to make a comeback after getting absolutely obliterated?
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Oh, you're that kind of person.
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Yes, I'm the kind of person that thinks rewarding a side for being utterly stomped is illogical. Glad you can tell!
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Bait
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