61% Kill Rate
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So why are so many players (including me) so bad at it? If it didn’t take skill to play, solo mains wouldn’t be complaining about Solo Queue.
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I wonder how much of the 61% is because of tunneling and camping?
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For MMR. You still escaped and would be reflected in the stats. If hatch escapes didn't count then Kill Rates + Escape Rates wouldn't add up to 100%.
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If most people are bad then you should balance around them. It makes no sense to balance around top 1% death squad SWFs. Even at high MMR those types of teams are incredibly rare. Something that anyone who plays killer knows and something that the devs confirmed.
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I would love to see Killrates per killer and for each MMR-Region.
What is the killrate in TOP-MMR for Nurse compared to Lowest-MMR. What is it on Sadako or Freddy or the other D-Tiers? Are they even picked once a month in Top-Level?
U balance a game around the Elite-Players, because they know exactly what to do (on both sides).
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well then mostly survivors ending their lifu on first hook and ruining the rest of the trial for the the other survivors
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It's a little weird, but I'm enjoying those sweet bp's and survivor queues. I started playing mostly SWF again and I'm having a lot more fun! Solo still needs buffs though. The game is very unfair and unfun for them.
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The problem is these players ARE the ones the devs listen to, just look how many bad takes are on the forums which many people like them validate. Bad players dictating the game is why the likes of Wraith, Freddy, Slinger were nerfed as well as all the over exaggerated X Killer perks are OP nerf them BHVR! And they actually end up listening and implementing it.
Never ever balance your game for players who don't even understand your game, why would you balance for players who run past pallets, take 10 mins to do a single gen because they spend most the game crouched in a corner because they hear a terror radius and struggle to do a chase while looking behind them?
This is why killers are conditioned to Camp/Tunnel because against an efficient team majority of the killer cast just lose no matter how quick their chases and downs are.
Another reason you do not balance for bad players is players CAN get better and as shown many many times when players know what they are doing the game is incredibly broken.
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One minor nitpick. Freddy had around a 75% kill rate before his nerf. Not to say everything that got touch was justified, but it wasn't like he was nerfed solely because of complaints. At least compared to Wraith and Deathslinger, Freddy was a justified hit, they just went way overboard.
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I would assume in top-level, a lot of killers on the roster doesnt stand a Chance, especially M1-Killers like Trapper, Wraith, Sadako or Freddy.
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I said "mechanical skill"
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Again like BHVR you are going off kill rates which does not tell the whole picture, as someone mentioned in this thread earlier low MMR killers probably have a 100% kill rate and I would not be remotely surprised at all and that's not because killers are OP it's because the survivors have no clue what to do or how to play the game properly and these stats for god knows what reason are taken into account.
There's an obvious reason why in the higher MMR bracket you will only go against the same killers + same perks everytime and that's simply because majority of the killer cast is just not viable at all.
Can you imagine what the top MMR data would look like? Picture data for chases - gen speed, how many downs/hooks the killer gets per gen on average I guarantee you it would be incredibly low and survivors dominate. Someone also mentioned suicides are also counted towards kill rates, there are people who kill themselves on hook for a number of reasons, avoiding DC penalty is one of them:
- the killer they are against
- the map
- a perk the killer has
- an addon the killer has
Why are these stats even taken into account? What BHVR shows us just does not show the full picture and people massively overexaggerate it, heck I bet theres content creators right now manipulating their audience saying "See! the data proves it! Killers are clearly OP!"
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Honestly i think it's time we get stats in game and we get to see our MMR. there is no actual reason for it to be invisible. I would love to have my own stats revealed the 12th of each month, so i could see how well or bad i did.
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I'm just stating that Freddy unlike Wraith and Deathslinger was actually over performing according stats we were shown. BHVR most certainly wasn't nerfing Freddy solely off of complaints. Even with the limited scope of data we were shown at the time, it was pretty clear the reason why Freddy ended up getting nerfed.
Not to say I agree with the changes as Freddy also received a lot of indirect nerfs and his base-kit getting nerfed on top of everything he was using at the time getting nerfed put him in a really bad spot.
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Doing this would massively expose content creators and streamers who think they are gods gift to the game and their huge ego's wouldn't be able to handle the truth.
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He got nerfed because u see him 95% of the time in low and MAYBE lower mid-regions, where u face mostly quads with at least 1-2 bad players and the survs hide in corners instead of doing gens.
In higher games than mid I assume you will NEVER see him, because he is far too weak to be competetive and his addons suck a lot.
Another part: he is easy to play instead of Oni or Nurse or Spirit or Deathslinger etc., so every killer-beginner can shine with him.... in lower levers of course. As higher u get, as weaker he is.
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Do I need to have an explanation with you about how statistics work?
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This people tend to forget right after patch 6.1 every game for a week I had at least 1 dc or someone kill themselves on hook right away. Now if we are going with not counting dc games it still makes alot of sense that they buffed killers and a bunch of survivors killed themselves on hook at 5 gens of course kill rates look lopsided.
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but they would have the choice to share it or not. I'm talking personnal stats only you can see from logging into your game ^^
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They murdered iron wills pick rate, thats a shift.
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The problem is gens can still fly by on a lot of maps because it's still very easy to run a lot of the killers. So naturally killers will still be using slowdown.
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The 75% kill rate on freddy at the time was from red ranks (since this was before mmr). He was a pretty popular killer having a good pick rate both in general and in red ranks.
It's not fair to say that Freddy was solely nerfed because of "bad" survivors complaining about him. He was performing really well overall and the meta at the time really complimented him. BHVR eventually nerfed the perks that were good on him, along side some buffs to perks like BT that he used to completely ignore, along with nerfs to his base-kit and in the end put him into the bad state he is in now.
It wasn't like Deathslinger who had a middling kill rate and a low pick rate and a dev blog flat out stating it was to make him less frustrating to play against. Or Wraith whose change came so quickly after his buff that the only reason he had to have been nerf was due to complaints. Freddy was doing pretty well for quite a while and the stats showed it even if it's not a complete picture. Eventually that lead to the devs nerfing him directly on top of indirect nerfs which was too much.
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He was performing well because of his Penalty-Addons and his Forever-Freddy playstyle with old Ruin + Undying + Surveillance/Tinkerer + Dream Projection.
Even if he had his old Gen-Speed-Slowdown-Addons, he would never shine like in the past, because most of "his" perks are dead or nerfed.
Now, he has nothing left, because all of his addons are trash now, his perks arent really an option anymore and so on.
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Yes. Though I would say he's far more hurt by dream snares being so weak since he's now slowed down placing them and has less to place. His power is often just worse than clown bottles. Combined with the fact that he can only affect survivors who are asleep and clocks granting survivors a small immunity period, he's often just a M1 killer against survivors until they fall asleep and even then his power is hardly stronger than a killer whose power is always available.
Perk changes can be adapted to, but a base power being weak is a hurdle you can't really get pass.
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That only happens if the survivors are bad as well. 3 people alive, 1 of them on hook, the 2 heal up, hook bomb and body block, they're all 3 out of there. It changes when it's a Leatherface, Hillbilly, or Myers, but otherwise that's how it is.
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Bingo. He will win anyway in low-mmr (like all killers), but as you become higher with him, you will have a really hard time. As u mentioned, he is just a pure M1-killer without them asleep and even then his abilities are mediocre at best.
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What is the exact definition of "average kill rate"? 61% of 4k?
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If the whopping 61% kill rate didn't make it obvious enough, the top used perks being ones that only reward multiple, multiple hooks shows you that these results are massively skewed by casual players. The game is still difficult for killers who play against decent survivors. Who uses Jolt and BBQ at top level? Who?
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These stats are around all mmr.
They say Nurse is the worst killer in kill-rates, so sorry but I cannot see these stats as a good mirror how strong a killer is.
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That's the first I've seen him say it.
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Because with MMR there shouldn't be 'bad killers' that deserve to get curb stomped. Only Killers paired with Survivors at a similar skill range.
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A 50% kill rate would mean on average games are ending with 2 kills and 2 escapes. Though this can be made up with an equal number of 0Ks and 4Ks and equal number of 1Ks and 3Ks.
For example you could have a 50% kill rate with
10 - 0Ks
15 - 1Ks
20 - 2Ks
15 - 3Ks
10 - 4Ks
140 total kills / (70 total games * 4 survivors) = 50% kill rate
To get a 60% kill rate, 0Ks would have to be less than 4Ks and 1Ks would have to be less than 3Ks. If we move up half the current kills to the next level we get:
5 - 0Ks
13 - 1Ks
17 - 2Ks
18 - 3Ks
17 - 4Ks
169 total kills / (70 total games * 4 survivors) = 60% kill rate
It's really not as bad as people are making it out to be.
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50% means 2K.
Well, I tunnel someone out, 5 gens are done.
I camp the second one and defend the hook well.. there it is.
3 chases, maybe 4 with 3-4 hooks.
Balanced, right?
IT DEPENDS ON THE KILLER, SOME WILL ALWAYS 3 OR 4K, SOME STRUGGLE TO GET A 2K.
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You don't balance a video game around the elite players unless you want the game to die. Another asymmetrical game that was recently put in Early Access did that and it's abysmal player retention rate shows exactly why you don't.
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Why should a single survivor be more powerful than the killer when they are a team of 4 a draw is a 2k, remember that?
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Survivors don't win or lose as a team (at least currently based on mmr). In those 70 games, a single survivor could have as high of an escape as 75%.
The devs want the killer to kill more and have less games end up with a 0K. That's why DS and OTR are disabled in end game and why the upcoming mori rework will auto kill the last survivor remaining in trial when they are in dying state (from the last details we were told). The result is that killers are killing more.
Complaining that survivors as a whole are losing more is ignoring that the game doesn't care if 3 survivors die since that doesn't factor into whether or the a single survivor has "won".
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But these stats show nothing. If we get stats on survivors and all killers at varying mmr then there will be stats to back up statements like this. Like if a significant portion of the kill rate increase is at low mmr then it's quite meaningless since survivor is harder early on. On the flip side if these are the stats for high mmr then we got a problem.
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Wow, awesome answer. I appreciate the time invested. Now let me read and understand it.
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Because the killer is the single player team and therefore should be stronger than an individual survivor. I'm sorry you can't 1v1 the killer in an asymmetrical game.
Another thing the killer with a 60% kill rate is still only winning 50% of their games in the example. 35 games are 3Ks or 4Ks and 35 games are 0Ks, 1Ks, and 2Ks.
If you want to look at it from the survivor perspective. Survivors are only losing 50% of their games.
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Statistics are facts, plain and simple. Now it's true there are different philosophies regarding balance, but I think it's personally reasonable to say that balance is at 50 percent. If you do not think that 50 percent win rate is balanced I'd like to know why not. It seems to me that the statistics are very clearly showing a current lack of balance and that if anything anyone who is trying to justify the current kill rate are those who are trying to push a narrative.
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Very bad. I read the article and disappointed that the devs are not even alarmed and concerned. Clearly taking survivors for granted and downplaying the lack of survivors by spinning the report to say queue time decreased with incentives. They forgot to mention that killers never get an incentive because survivor is so horrendous now. That is a red flag that they don't care how survivors feel about the game. It is not a fair game of skill when one side has a massive advantage (yes, even 61% is massive).
And they don't count DCs in a match. This means it is probably closer to 80% winrate for killer. The game is literally unplayable for survivor and there is not even a concern about it which is worse than the stats itself.
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Statistics that do not cover all relevant variables are estimates, not facts.
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Source? (I've obviously missed a stream or a post)
(Got it, thanks)
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I did not say a 2K was a win. I just said a killer with the sample numbers would have won half his games while the same team would have lost half their games. If all you care about is 50% being balanced, then that is in fact balanced.
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Survivor logic in a nutshell
If you spread pressure and play for hooks on all 4 people instead of Kills you'd be considered bad by these players, But they also don't want tunneling or camping to exist in the game because it leads to more Kills. Granted, I don't always enjoy getting hard-tunneled or camped the entire game either but still... Pick one or the other. You ironically place your judgment of a person's skill based on only the Kills but then also somehow think MMR based on Kills/Escapes is bad for both sides. Which one is it..
This is like saying "Why should bad Survivors always be able to get a hatch?" -- Maybe because the context of the match matters and the binary end-game results don't tell the full story?? Lol. Someone can 8 or 9/12 hook a good SWF on a large map for a 0/1k and according to SBMM and players like you they're "bad" but in reality they did good, just like you can carry your SoloQ team by doing most of the dirty work just to be the only person left to run the Killer until you die or find hatch. The Survivor still did good even if they died
You cannot determine whether a person is bad solely based on the end-results, you need to see how that person performs during chases and through the interactions they have with game mechanics
Post edited by AJStyIez on5 -
Its a good job you didn't direct Friday thr 13th or Halloween as all of the teenagers would have lived 🤨
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Exactly. Killer mains want to pretend this is fair, but they would be screaming if it was reversed.
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The power role gets 61% efficiency, shock horror
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Yeah and there's also a casual game that balances to the lowest denominator and has an overwhelming number of advantages for the survivor team called VHS that has a sub 1 k player count at peak hours AND with a brand new DLC drop.
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Dear bhvr, 61 percent killrate means nothing when a significant amount players just weren't there to contribute to the count. Not including the number of players that dropped off leaves a gap in your numbers.
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