61% Kill Rate
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I'm so fed up of this "power role" nonsense. This is a game, not your weird power trip fantasy. 4 survivors should have the equal strength of one killer. There should be no power role.
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You're right, you just balance it around the 1st percentile of terrible or casual players so you can continue milking them for resources until they reach the higher percentiles and realize what's going on. Then, the game suffers from endless controversy until the game dies anyway, just like the other game /s
At the end of the day this is about whether you want to maximize profits vs keeping every bracket of the community satisfied regardless of financial gain
If you care about the community you WILL attempt to balance for the top % at some point, not abandon them. It doesn't have to exclusively cater to them but exclusively catering to the bottom of the barrel is also not a viable long-term strategy. The reason the July patch was created in the first place is because DBD didn't have a good retention rate either, the player count was falling
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The %'s have never mattered in regards to either role because balance is not determined by ignoring the context of gameplay and solely focusing on the end results. 50/50 doesn't mean what a lot of you think it does and I'm shocked that some people still don't understand how this works
According to you the game is balanced even when it has broken mechanics on both sides as long as 2 people escape and 2 die. That is nowhere close to balance and you're really exaggerating how much the 61% means. We literally predicted this weeks ago when they had their huge July patch. Many smart veterans already knew on day 1 that people were going to be spiteful towards Killers getting shown some love and were going to sandbag eachother, DC early, suicide on first hook which artificially inflates the % and then turn around to use that same % as some evidence that they're oppressed
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Let's not pretend this game is in any way balanced. If you have to resort to conspiracy theories about "evil survivors artificially inflating kill rates" as if survivors have a clubhouse somewhere making these decisions then your argument is in bad faith.
This game will only be balanced when solo queue is buffed to have the level of information swf gets for free, and when all killers are at the same power level and follow the same game rules. Unfortunately that is near to impossible to achieve in an asymmetrical game, but that doesn't mean that the devs should give up on trying to make it as balanced as possible.
Simply blanket buffing all killers to brute force their way to a win with increased bloodlust and pallet breaking speeds was a band aid fix that was unnecessary for the strongest killers and nowhere near enough for the weakest. All it served to do was make the game feel unrewarding for survivor players, and the stats reflect that feeling of unfairness.
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Because game works like that, ask BHVR for why.
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I feel like it would have been nice to see a breakdown by MMR. Admittedly, I am not a high MMR survivor and when I play with my college friends, we routinely get 4k'd. I'd be surprised if my escape rate is much above 20%. This is over the course of hundreds of matches, so I would assume at this point my MMR is 0 and still the escape rate is trash.
I'm not sure how much more I need to be a punching bag for killers. DBD it was a good run, but I think I'm done now. I'll come back when the game looks more fun. @Peanits If you wouldn't mind sharing, what is the escape rate for the bottom half of MMR?
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Some people in this thread are very dismissive of lower MMR brackets. Should new survivor players expect to lose even more then? If you recommend this game to a friend and they lose 7 or 8 of 10 games, do you think they will still want to play? Is this healthy for the game?
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It doesn't really help considering that those kills could include suicide hooks. It also doesn't help cause how many of those are solo Q and how many are SWF? How many are on nurse and how many are on billy? I feel like there isn't enough info.
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You sound delusional in the first part of your reply, sorry. This isn't a conspiracy theory at all, but in modern times its popular for people to say that everything's a conspiracy theory when they refuse to believe it even when sufficient evidence can be provided
This is one of DOZENS of posts that you can easily find on a daily basis popping up in all of the Facebook groups as well as the DBD Discord. People blatantly admit to suiciding or DCing if they get caught first or if they go against a Killer they don't like or for multiple other petty reasons now more than ever before. This DID artificially inflate the percentages because this behavior has seen a pretty clear uptick since the patch in July.
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Most (not all) people that are dismissive of lower MMR brackets are dismissive because they already warned against all of these issues unfolding many months before SBMM was officially live and people said they were exaggerating. Now here we are a year later...debating the same **** people warned against
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It's literally in their blogpost: "In Dead by Daylight, the Killer should strike fear into the Survivors. Part of this comes from being a big, scary looking person or monster, while another part of this comes from their ability to kill you. Before the 6.1.0 Update, we found Killers to be a little lacking."
Whether you agree with this is irrelevant, for the devs 61% is reasonable 🤷
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I'm not going to get caught up arguing whether or not people are disconnecting. Of course they are, for many different reasons, killers also disconnect when they don't like the way a game is going. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I will say though, it isn't some grand conspiracy to make kill rates artificially inflated. People have always disconnected.
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The issues that would have fixed VHS for Monster players were dismissed during beta on the basis that Monster was balanced at high MMR and all people needed in Monster was to overcome the high learning curve.
VHS proves my point exactly.
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The “skill” in survivor is memorizing loops and a basic understanding of killer powers. That’s it
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It isn’t fair to make the game unplayable for killer at high levels though. No killer has any reason to want to play against those groups. Get better or quit
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You're kind of exaggerating. No game caters to the bottom of the barrel as you call it and games that cater to the top fail.
If your revenue comes from participants (as in video games) as opposed to spectators (as in competitive sports) then you balance around all spectrums as much as is possible.
If you cater to the 'elite players' only you lose players and revenue possibly to the point your game becomes unsustainable and dies. People don't pay money to watch people play DbD on any more than a minor level; they pay to play DbD and will stop playing (and providing revenue) if their play is not fun enough to keep them interested.
That's how business and video games work. To keep all spectrums interested you consider all players.
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I have had survivors kill themselves on hook against addonless slowdownless slinger, im giving them free 4 man escapes but most survivors will give up after seeing the killer doesn't get looped for 3 minutes at least.
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No, I'm definitely not exaggerating and you're factually incorrect. Many PvP and MMORPG games are infamous for exclusively catering towards the lowest percentile players because that's where their bread and butter is. Those games' studios appreciate the veterans who continue to play the game even with all the flaws, however they don't take much care of them because that's not their targeted demographic. They don't expect the top-end players to stay invested once they discover the formula and they don't really feel hurt if they leave because for every disgruntled vet that quits there's 100 casuals coming to take their place on the cogwheel
They've already tapped those players' pockets and got them invested in their games' time-sink. Once those players reach the 99th percentile they're often put as the last priority financially and socially in favor of the casuals that don't care to go past the entry barriers. They're content with simply playing the game, they don't care about balance or mechanics and most importantly they won't hold the creators accountable with feedback
Also, re-read what I said. I specifically said they don't have to cater only towards the top-end just like I said they shouldn't cater the majority of their product to the bottom if they actually want a healthy community
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And since I disagree with that assessment by the devs, i am leaving feedback.
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Kill rate is irrelevant. What is relevant is how those kills are distributed. Is it all 4Ks against solo queue and 0Ks against killsquads?
Post edited by Man_of_triangles on1 -
Just because its not an underground cult doing it doesn't mean it isn't a thing that has been boosted in popularity specifically after this 6.1 update or relevant to the forum topic. There were legitimately threads with many upvotes, replies and thousands of views here of Survivors specifically announcing that they will be DCing and suiciding more often so that the stats will 'force' the Devs to do something about the 6.1 update. Do you not understand how the context of the game matters more than binary numbers??? That's literally the reason we're in this mess, because you guys don't wanna acknowledge that
It doesn't matter if the Kill rates were 61% or if the Escape rates were 61% because as long as the maps and tiles remain unaddressed, half the perks still haven't been reworked, QoL buffs to both Solo and Low-Tier Killers none of this matters. Are you gonna tell me we need to buff the Nurse even further because she has the lowest Kill %?
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No, but wasting killers time while other can hold the m1 is.
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I don't think you're arguing against the same point I'm making. My statement is that if video game studios cater to the very top they will lose players and the game may become financially unsustainable. This is factually true
I also stated that, in order to keep the community as a whole happier, it's better to balance as best as you can for all spectrums of skill. This is also factually true.
It does sound like we both agree that all spectrums of skill should have their fun considered. Where we disagree is you view studios as solely milking for money and not caring about their top percentage. My point of view is that while this does happen it is not as prevalent as you suggest nor is BHVR only considering one single echelon of skill. However, BHVR is also considering the top echelon, along with all the others, when they make decisions.
Does that sound like an accurate summary of our positions to you?
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The result of these changes:
The average kill rate (percentage of all Survivors killed) rose by about 8%. This leaves Killers- on average- within a range that we’re comfortable with, making them deadly, but not oppressive.More tunneling and camping. That's really the only visible result.
Also, please tell me the Self-Care thing is a joke...
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I am surprised it is not higher given the month of mental health awareness that survivor mains were advocating for.
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Oppressive to some, deadly to others!
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Jolt is broken bro, been saying it for a while (high pressure killers with slugging and heal denying)
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still looking at statistics? you should know that those kind of data are meaningless for the game's balance if you consider only those since they are flawed due to various factors... they could gave you a remote idea about how things are going only when you put them together with other statistics. For example low mmr will have an huge increase of the kill ratio due to people "play" in a certain way (aka not optimally, fleeing whenever they hear the terror radius, being unable to loop and/or chain loops, making it a lot more easier for the killer to defend generators and kill survivors) while high mmr will have the stats decreased probably (the best gen defense perks were nerfed into the ground, making pain resonance the only perk barely worth for slowing down gens if you have a killer that can end chases quickly, making it easier for rushing gens despite they added 10 seconds to them, you'll have competent survivors who know how to loop and are smarter in general and coordinated SWF)
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League of legends.
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In their defense, there was a meta shift in terms of well... Both Ruin and Pop aren't used as much anymore. Slowdown perks are also always going to be meta, they really would have to make many of the slowdown perks basekit to render the slowdown perks themselves useless if they want to change this and have killers convinced they don't need the extra slowdown. And even then, an extra bit of slowdown on top of all that is always something people will consider beneficial.
Same applies to exhaustion perks and 2nd chance perks btw. Some perks are considered better than others and in this case some "type" of perks are considered better than other types and therefore they're meta and will always be meta until they're completely useless.
Don't get me wrong, I get that you're only pointing out the irony of the situation, but I feel like the task of completely shifting the meta is honestly impossible unless they rework those "meta-type perks". And guess what happens then, a new meta of certain type perks will appear so... Yeah... It's just an endless loop.
Personally, I feel like they didn't do a poor job considering I, myself, feel like there's more choice for killers and survivors which really was their goal in the end. I don't feel like I need to run slowdown perks to have a game that lasts longer than 5 minutes. As survivor, I feel like they need some better anti tunneling and camping mechanics so they don't feel forced to bring BT but they have also addressed this issue in the past, meaning they're well aware of the problem.
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League of Legends is the exception that proves the rule. It did manage to become an e-sport and a game that can derive revenue through spectators as opposed to participation.
The track record of those games that tried to imitate it shows how much that is a terrible idea overall. More to the point, do you think DbD would able to achieve top esports status?
If not, balance for a game that derives revenue from participation is best if all spectrums are considered and fairer to the community.
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global stats are relevant, and how those are distributed between different type of players are completely irrelevant. Also for example different regions seem to have different favorites in survivor builds and killer pickrates. The devs said repeatedly that the game will not be balanced separately between one region or another, between one type of survivor to another. Global stats are important, and the game is balanced around that. And any changes are globally applied, not separately between people, regions and separate success rates between type of players.
So basically kill rates are relevant, and escape rates are relevant. But not separately between types of players. That's irrelevant
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I think people are mistaking the 61% kill rate as a 61% win rate.
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50% killrate = 2 kills on average, 61% killrate means that 3-4 kills are more common than 3-4 escapes that's all, winrate is irrelevant
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I don't disagree with your mindset or others in terms of where the balance needs to be, I disagree on other stuff I read in here
If BHVR actually took care of the top% like you claim then years ago or at least once per year they would take an entire quarter off from making new licensed/original characters/cosmetics to focus only on quality assurance. BHVR already has a monopoly on the genre, at this point by continuing to stack up licenses they're just gathering infinity stones. In 2017 I get it, but its now 2022, they can afford to focus on balance instead of trying to juggle everything at once.
You cannot tell me they actively consider the 1% when forum mods/crew members can be quoted here saying that they have to prioritize the majority of the player base above anybody else. There is no equal treatment here
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Yep they closed their eyes every time they hooked someone. 🫠
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So the killer should just be outnumbered/out perked out communicated 🤨
Glad you aint a dev
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why should bad survivors always be able to secure an escape with hatch when the killer plays well?
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This literally has nothing to do with what I said
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They dont, that's the difference.
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