Unpopular opinion: it's no wonder some killers resort to camping/tunelling.

They're lowest common denominator strats, which means their simplicity and effectiveness have a good ratio that is universal to all killers. situations like you described definitely contribute to them, mostly because people fail at more advanced strats and see them as unviable, then fall back to "what works." The way the two of you handled the situation is pretty wholesome, especially with the 1v1 lesson offer. I used to absolutely love Ardetha's coaching videos because they were great at this very thing: When people understand what they need to improve, and how they need to fix it, it helps them perform better and need to fall back on the LCD strategies less. It just makes the experience more enjoyable for all parties involved. Its not even a killer specific thing, but the situations you described tend to happen more often to their side due to the bullying potential you mentioned.

Then it must really be a platform/regional thing because I let survivor intentionally go, after playing normal until 8 hooks, during the last 2 years. (Killer only)

I got mostly silence, "GG's" after games where i didn't even get 6 hooks aka got stomped, sometime gratitude (mostly during events) or the general toxic responses. And the nice and not nice were vaguely equal.

Not very much nurturing a friendly environment from the killers.

As Killer if you dont camp and tunnel is rare to get hate, I dont play like that and I almost never get hate on postchat, same as Survivors, if you dont tbag or try to the be obnoxious Killers rarely will diss you on chat either.

I honestly believe people who get that much hate is because they do something to earn it, its like the "I got a 48H DC penalty and I ragequitted only once! I swear!!" threads you see from time to time here, like inmates being there because their lawyer messed up or they are victims of a huge legal mistake.

What you're saying is very true.

It's hard coming across as nice or respectful as killer and still be taken seriously afterwards, or it can be confusing for the survivors. While at the same time, bad behaviors go unchecked by the game and are even rewarded in certain cases.

Since you can't really prevent some bad behaviors without it impacting negatively on other functions of the game (for example, preventing teabag with a crouch timeout would impact negatively communication among survivors), I guess the second best thing is for everyone involved to learn not to take to heart some little amount of BM. For example, I tend to see tea bagging while in chase as more of a playful attitude rather than mean intent, and I've been less agitated or anxious playing since then.

It's sad that the best thing you can do is get desensitized to it, but I don't see BHVR taking a strong stance against bad manners, except maybe for more god-awful chat filter.

While i agree with almost everything here, I don't necessarily agree with the "just ignore it" part. I feel it would be much healthier for the game if better behavior was rewarded rather than bad behavior punished (or even just ignored.) Make it so that the thumbs up in endgame reports actually does something, maybe if you maintain a certain % of them you get a scaling BP bonus or a small modifier to XP gained or something, basically design it in a way that the only way people can influence it is when its positive, kinda like how upvotes work on the forums here. While its obviously a losing battle trying to fight the low end with the stick, offering the carrot for staying on the good end would do a lot to keep people from letting their frustration turn into anger and leading them down the same path.

I didn't mean to come across as "people should ignore bad behavior", I was just saying that as it's what works for me. I do think bad behavior should be punished to an extent, but I agree that rewarding better behavior might be the better way to go.

Your ideas to reward better behavior are by far better than what I could come up with. I'd love to see that thumbs up button get more use. I sometimes use it and leave a kind word but I know very well that no one will read them.

I haven't gotten hate chat in two months. 11 hooks, usually let the last survivor go. That's the goal when I play. I win more than I lose, usually have a good time. I ignore the clicky-bois and butt-dances. First hook DC or unaliving by a survivor, I'll make sure I get a hook on everyone then usually play catch and release for the rest of the game until they get out the gate.

I have fun, survivors usually have fun and it's a good time. With the exception of some bad eggs, I think most hate on both sides comes from their own play. I doubt I'm just lucky to get nice survivors all the time in 600 hours of play.

Thats true, and I definitely know what you mean. I probably worded it a bit harsher than I could have, but wanted to address it since BM is generally done as a frustration enhancer. Generally they are telling the other player that they know whatever just happened frustrates them, and they're taunting to maximize its impact. A given person's temperment is variable enough, but actions like that are designed to try to tilt even those that have more patience than others, while driving the less patient ones to make half of the rantposts we see on here. Just had to emphasize that its impact can have disproportionate impact in the recipient, even when not necessarily just a skin thickness issue.

Similar situation but opposite experience : my friend once had a daily to play Huntress and hit survivors with hatchets, but he's really bad at aiming and hates Huntress

One of the survivors noticed that even standing still he couldn't hit them, and actually came forward to help him farm his 4 hatchets by coming a bit closer to him whenever he missed his shots and backing away a few steps when he managed to hit her. It was all around quite heartwarming (and hilarious on my end as I was watching him miss his target for like 5 minutes)

I understand what you mean !

And don't worry, you weren't being harsh or anything. :)

You are not wrong with tis assumption, as this was stated all the time way back as the reason why killers camped and tunneled: that the base gameplay loop was aweful and playing killers felt miserable for the most part.

But then patch 6.1 dropped and brought all this sweeping (and sorely needed) changes to killer. A lot of killer players rejoyced and jumped into the role with rekindled killer instinct. Others, though, accepted the new gifts of The Entity, without ever relinquishing the debased and despicable tactics that they had learned during the dark times. This new wave of killers was just as strong and drunk on power, but kept tunneling and camping as their MO.

And here we are: killers are probably at the best they ever were, the role is again scary and survivor mistakes are easily punished and exploited, but hard tunneling and camping is thusly even more effective then ever. When a killer plays the game "like its intended", ie roaming around and sniffing out survivors, then they can still be pretty opressive if played well, but the survivors at least got a fun game out of it, with a fair chance to finish their objective.

But when killers insisting on camping and tunneling they can easily press this advantage for a 2k and might even snowball it to a total party kill. Tunneling has its value as a tactic, especially against strong SWFs were you might force survivors to take protection hits that would otherwise just sit on their gens, but against soloQ its most often overkill, at least any time before the 2nd gen pops. At 3 gens it feels totally alright to finish off a survivor, but any time before that and the game is basically dead on arrival.

I would love to see Reassurance to work at 12m, so that you can more easily punish real facecamping killers, and Camaradry/Kinship to work on both hook stages and giving every survivor an indicator that it is in play. This way you could really extend the hanging time and frustrate a camper enough that they might patrol gens, while not let anyone being taken hostage on the hook.

If I'm playing killer, Survivors seem to be toxic no matter what. You let one have hatch? "Why did you let THAT one go"

You 4kd? "Op killer, op perks"

You 3kd? "Baby killer couldn't get everyone"

Honestly makes it easier to ignore post game chat as every single match is verbal abuse unless you stomp them into oblivion.

I am also a big fan of encouraging good behavior. So while I gave some easy fixes in my above post of how to punish campers, the other side of the coin would be some small incentive to actually leave the hook.

My dream would be to give killers a small BBQ like effect as basekit: after hooking show them the aura of the survivor furthest away who is minimum 24m away and give them a short but substantial speed burst if they move in that direction and aren't in a chase right now. Old BBQs biggest contribution to the game was that nearly every killer equipped it for the BP gains, but then got drawn off the hook nearly automatically, because the perk gave them a new target. Basekit stuff is always an iffy subject, but I believe that we could change a lot for the better by making "leaving the hook" worth it for the killer instead of giving them the feeling that they are hurting their proposition of winning.

If you take both together, ie basekit mini BBQ+speed boost to get away from the hook AND making Reassurance and Camaradry/Kinship painful for killers to deal with, we will shift the meta from tunneling and camping over to chasing and looping.

As a baby killer I too am faced with these SWFs that are challenging. I wait for an opportunity and try to capitalize off their mistakes of being so bold and brash. I once went against two identical Steve’s running the flash light perk Residual Effect. They’d bait me in a chase gl down by a locker and the other would sprint out and blind me once I picked up the survivors.. Well after several minutes of that I just slugged it out for the remaining of the match. The other 2 survivors were just as toxic but without flashlights. I had no hesitation in killing all of them. I’m so bad at killer I usually just farm but once they started w the toxic behavior I decided they all would die no exception. I was playing Spirit for the first time in my DBD history so I understand being outmatched and played.

I 100% agree with this.

The lack of any information often leads killers back to the hook when their search runs dry.

Some basekit aura reading would go a long way for everyone’s benefit.

Yeah, a lot of times it's a case of know your audience. I'll usually let them wiggle off until they know I'm not out to kill them.

Breaking the game where?

I agree with you, but tbf, I have tunneled those kind of players out of the game a fair amount of times. The good ones that wasted a lot of your time are a classic example of being "too dangerous to be left alive", especially if I suspect that you might have seen my totem during the chase ^_- Victim of ones own success, so to speak. But a too hard fixation on that one good player can easily lead to your own downfall, as you let the other three survivors do as they please with the gens. So normally this needs to be tempered and be applied in the right dosage ... but BMing after each successful vault or palette stun will greatly increase the likelyhood to get tunneled out ^^

I also think the solution is to bring down the SWF escape rate. It’s not “punishing people for playing with their friends”. It’s balancing for all the extra game advantages people get when they have access to voice communication.

And I still think the best way to do this is to calculate SWF MMR higher than they currently do (even if this sometimes requires giving SWF a higher MMR soft cap). This way, you aren’t changing any in-game mechanics, but you are more fairly matching SWFs up with stronger killers, to account for the extra game advantages of voice communication.

I love when baby swf's trying to imitate their favorite streamer try and do this stuff vs me. "Oh no this blight actually has the capability to slug us when we are all hovering around him?". Like yeah you aren't supposed to be able to get away with playing this way, especially the few games I run alch ring. Sorry you guys didn't get pig I guess.

True. I have a theory: if a killer is real mean, you have to find out, what happened in his last match.