Why Self-Care is still the most picked Survivor perk?

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  • MDRSan
    MDRSan Member Posts: 298
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    I mean, why would anyone want to heal up really?

    I hear groups of 3 survivors make a ton more gen progress than groups of 4. By staying healthy, you’re robbing your teammates of the additional attention and face time the killer can provide a smaller group. Additionally, unless you keep yourself 1 hit from hooksville you make it so your teammates don’t have anything to do but boring gens. I mean, isn’t it more fun to have to go save someone off a hook than doing a gen?

    (ok, maybe that last statement is inadvertently less sarcastic than the previous ones)

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    It's very unlikely they'd drop. Self care is an inherently selfish perk. You stop contributing to the team for a long time just to gain a health level. Empathy/aftercare/bond are far better. Any perk that lets you find survivors means you will be healed much faster. Self care lets you heal at 25% of the normal speed, you could literally heal every other survivor in the match faster than you can heal yourself just one health level. Self care is an inefficient perk that marginally benefits the user but hurts the team overall. So yes removing this perk would probably benefit the team as a whole and survival rates.

    And tbh if you want to self heal just bring a medkit. Any medkit with the right attachments allows for 2 full heals, one for you, usually at 4x the speed of self care, and a one for another survivor if you're feeling generous. And frees up a perk slot to take something more useful.

  • WipeIncGamingYT
    WipeIncGamingYT Member Posts: 171
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    Every time I read a comment from you, I find that you write smart and clever comments. Please keep up the good work.

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Because it takes forever to use, I've tried it in public matches to get the tome challenge, killer has often stumbled on me while using it. As killer i have also caught out a lot of people trying to self care because they sit in one place for a long time making pain grunts. And woe betide you if you're facing any killer with aura perks. Bbq and chilli, nurses calling, the killer will know where you are and can see from the animation that you are self healing. Self care's dirt poor heal speed means the killer has plenty of time to home in on you and hear those grunts of pain. Even if you arent against a stealth killer, notice terror radius the sound can still give you away, and since you are still injured killer one hits you.

  • WipeIncGamingYT
    WipeIncGamingYT Member Posts: 171
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    In solo Q in low MMR, escape rates would improve if Self Care were used more. 


    Matches are lost because other survivors go to unhook halflife. Matches are lost when other survivors half-heal and then run away. Matches are lost when other survivors do not let me heal but continue halflife. Selfcare is the ultimate safeguard against bad mates. 


    Currently I have the rift challenge where I have to heal other survivors and I need 12 successful skill checks. After 2 matches I have gained 2 of them. And I use bond to find other survivors, repair generators with them, heal them, let them heal me or pull the killer away from my mates in the chase. Survivors don't like to be healed and don't like to heal.


    So, if you want infinite healing in solo Q, use Self Care. My actual escape rate is 42%, with the help of Self Care, too. Otherwise I would die in every match.

  • MDRSan
    MDRSan Member Posts: 298
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    That’s what Botany Knowledge and Bite the Bullet are for.

    I only play in solo q so I can either take care of myself and be pleasantly surprised when a group of 4, non-communicative strangers do manage to work as a unit or (more often than not) pick perks that are ‘team player’ perks and roll the dice. I prefer the path with a little more certainty, regardless of inefficiencies.

    That said, I don’t run it super often - usually after a string of matches where I wish I’d been able to heal I’ll switch to having it.

  • Gary_Coleman
    Gary_Coleman Member Posts: 732
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    It can take forever to find a totem. Especially when everyone else is cleansing totems. I've played games where I run the healing boon and I never see a single totem.

    It can also take half a match to get someone else to heal ya. I've played games where I get unhooked and the other survivor runs away, I follow and they run straight to the killer to lead a chase.

    I think that once you experience things like that so many times, Self Care starts to look like the best option for some people.

    I, myself, used to use it all the time, years ago. Then I stopped using it for a very long time. The last few times I played I used Self Care & Botany because the matches were so unpredictable that it was easier to just run those perks with no items or offerings because a match might literally only last 2-3 minutes before everyone is slugged.

    I have enough healing kits to last for years, but I wouldn't want to waste them.

    It almost sounds like you've been playing a different game than a lot of us have been playing.

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
    edited September 2022
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    Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree. In my experience as killer i kill a LOT of players trying to use self care. When i get beaten by a high level team, I don't see self care very much, usually circle of healing instead. And I'm usually able to get other survivors to heal me like 70-80% of the time. So does indeed seem like we are playing different games. Either that or your mmr is just much higher than mine and your team mates rush gens ehile you heal yourself.

    And a 42% survival rate is pretty insane in solo q. How many of those are hatch games I wonder?

  • WipeIncGamingYT
    WipeIncGamingYT Member Posts: 171
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    I see your point. High MMR survivor do not use self care. They have other options. Low MMR survivor tend to be scared. They hide at the edge of the map or hide in a locker for half of the match. As I use "Bond", I can see it. Low MMR survivor tend to not let theirself healed and not to heal me. If I want infinite heals everywhere, I need Self Care. And playing with low MMR survivors I also play against low MMR killers. BBQ is not used much, and "Nurse Calling" is spoted at once and counteracted by taking a distance.


    As for the 42,89%, this is the actual season, since Tuesday. I played 8 matches, 7 were legit, I won 3 of the 7 by escaping through the exit. No single hatch escape. 2 of my escapes were against nurses. In low MMR nurses are good to play against. They struggle more with the controls than with us survivors.

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Yh nurses are weird. It'll either be an absolute walkover because they can't hit blinks and nurses are slow af. Or they are god tier blinkers who end every chase in 15 seconds

  • WipeIncGamingYT
    WipeIncGamingYT Member Posts: 171
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    I just rewatched my yesterday's match against the nurse. This nurse ran Nurse Calling and BBQ. One time she chased me down, because I outsmarted myself. Mates played good. I once started to use Self Care, but she came at once after me. Mates worked on their generators. After opening the exits I used Self Care the second time to help my wounded mate, but he made in anyway before I could intervene. We all escaped.

  • mischiefmanaged
    mischiefmanaged Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 372
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    I don't particularly like Self-Care and don't run it myself, and I also see it misused a lot by players when I'm killer, but it does have a lot of advantages the "faster" versions don't. Compared to inner healing:

    1. Doesn't require finding a totem.
    2. Doesn't require finding a locker.
    3. Doesn't require using the insanely slow locker enter/exit animations or making noise to enter/exit quickly.
    4. Doesn't expose you to being grabbed out of a locker.
    5. Doesn't require a full uninterrupted 14 seconds and uninterrupted 8 seconds.

    Similarly, compared to CoH:

    1. Doesn't require finding a totem which are sometimes in awful locations (bad hex totems are also bad boon totems).
    2. Doesn't require at least 14 seconds uninterrupted to even start healing.
    3. Doesn't allow the killer to just deny your ability to heal in the of your healing progress. You can run from the killer, but your totem can't and there's really nothing survivors can do to protect their boon totem.
    4. Doesn't make a loud sound that informs the killer both exactly what you're doing, possibly where you are, and what you're going to be doing for the next ~30ish seconds (oh cool, they booned and are probably trying to heal in that area I found them earlier. That means they're not on that generator, they're not going for the save, and I can probably find them there after I'm done camping this person). If the killer has already snuffed your totem before, and you reboon the same one, you just told them where you are. If you don't reboon the same one, you have to try and find a completely different one which takes more time.

    The killer knowing your exactly location is very valuable information from a macro perspective. A lot of killers try to play chill and go for chases and hooks, but in a more cutthroat environment, informing the killer of where you are can be a game-ending mistake for the entire team.

    Self-care doesn't have these weaknesses. Sure, the heal speed is slower. But, you don't have to group up. You can get interrupted and continue healing. You can choose the exact place you want to heal which can be in a very safe structure. You also don't inform the killer of exactly where you are or what you're doing. Self-care also allows you to finish healing yourself if you were being healed by a teammate and got interrupted. 99'ing your heal also might cause the killer to believe that they can get an easy down, but you just finish your heal and now you're a bad chase after they've already committed to it.

  • MDRSan
    MDRSan Member Posts: 298
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    Hey, it’s not my fault I’m playing on console. Well, I suppose it kind of is. I did have a couple matches last night where nurse and blight finally started to click and I did ok though. Guess muscle memory’s starting to kick in.

  • blue4zion
    blue4zion Member Posts: 2,773
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    Last point tho

    its actually helps the killer unless stacked with other perks. Only ones worse are No Mither and maybe Technician

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,553
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    What game lets you start out with the best stuff unlocked? That's not what pay to win means.

    Weird point to fixate on.

  • Kees_T
    Kees_T Member Posts: 810
    edited September 2022
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    Self-Care is only worth if you comibe it with Botany Knowledge, it's incredible for SoloQ.

    Self-Care alone is ~45 seconds

    Self-Care with Botany Knowledge is ~31 seconds (14 seconds of difference)

    Healing another Survivor with Botany is only ~11 seconds(from 16 seconds)

    Combine it with Dead Hard + Adrenaline, you'll be using the best build for solo queue, it offer: Ability to heal yourself faster for saves and more time looping, heal your teammates faster, Dead Hard for extending chases(it's still the best exhaustion perk in the right hands) and Adrenaline for those clutch moments that you get speed boost during a chase + free health state.

  • ByeByeQ
    ByeByeQ Member Posts: 1,104
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    If used improperly yes.

    But if used properly like in Endgame Collapse to get healed up for a daring rescue or to finish a heal that got interrupted, it is still a very fine perk.

  • MDRSan
    MDRSan Member Posts: 298
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    This game’s player base has a disproportionate and weird fixation on what is efficient on paper and hand waving away any situational downsides. I don’t agree that anything that isn’t the ordained ‘right’ perk is bad and helping the opposition. If all the options have pros and cons and a player is making an informed decision based on understanding them then they’re just using their brain and making a choice.

    By that logic, having circle of healing is helping the killer because the time spent finding and blessing a totem, time any teammate spends getting to its area of effect, etc. could have been spent on a gen.

  • shinymon
    shinymon Member Posts: 298
    edited September 2022
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    Whatever the case, it really feels like this is just some agenda to justify the overnerfing of Self-Care to oblivion.

    Post edited by shinymon on
  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Lol me too I'm on xbox, always ramp my sensitivity on nurse. I've hit good blinks with her before but i can't do it consistently lol

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Idk i haven't seen anyone say it's OP. It has clear weaknesses, it's like a jack of all trades perk, useful but not particularly good at what it does. It is versatile and can be used whenever but it is cripplingly slow. Don't think anyone wants a nerf for it. I just don't think so many players should be using it.

  • CyberRoninX
    CyberRoninX Member Posts: 293
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    Ok my guy, whatever you say. Time is a resource more valuable than money and it would take days of losing as survivor to get to 9k shards to buy any survivor. Pay to win means anything that is locked behind a pay wall that gives you an advantage over other. You still pay with your time while being miserable doing it. If you cant see that then I cant help you.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,213
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    But the point is still reliabilty. Because there are plenty of survivors out there that do totems, they even use your setup boon to locate a totem after the killer destroys it. I had several games where i couldnt use any boon at all. Inner healing only works if you are the only one running it, because in solo queue, you have to get hit more than once, but cant expect to heal more than once, if even.

    And other survivors just dont heal you whenever you need it, just when they want to, which mean sometimes they just won´t.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,424
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    The one thing I don't get about complaints on self-care (which the quoted post is not doing, but has the times)

    Self-care with botany at 31 seconds, but healing by teammate is 16 seconds. However, healing via a teammate means two survivors are doing nothing for 16 seconds, so 32 seconds of survivor time eaten up. Even if we presume botany in both situations, survivors still have to run to each other so a couple of seconds are wasted.

    There are some clear flaws to self-care, but it can be pretty useful. Especially if you don't have 100s of hours in to have unlocked a wide array of other perks.

  • Micheal_Myers
    Micheal_Myers Member Posts: 1,147
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    I use Self Care with Botany Knowledge which allows me to heal myself at I believe 75% of normal healing. So I heal myself and other quicker. Which allows for a high survival rate.

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    It's versatile for sure. But still very long. Tbh i didnt know it worked with botany knowledge. Still, using half your perks for the ability to self heal at an almost reasonable speed still seems a big trade off. Has it's uses but I'm still surprised it's usage is so high since it's a pretty lacklustre perk if it needs to be combined with another to be viable.

  • Nihlus
    Nihlus Member Posts: 301
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    It's really not that difficult to understand. It's the only heal you can guarantee to have available to use, on demand, at any time you want.

    Inner healing and CoH both require totems, something someone could be destroying before you get to.

    Both require set up or actually waste more time trying to find, bless/cleaning, the totem, and then either healing or finding a locker. By the time you do all that, you could have just self cared even in the terrible state it's in now.

    It's just that simple. It's a crappy perk, but it's *reliable*. It's always there. If you're injured and need to rush past a killer at the exit gates, you are more likely to get out using self care than the other perks.

    I run CoH myself after the self-care nerf, but it annoys the hell out of me trying to find the totems sometimes. If I need a second perk for it, like small game, I'm better off with self care and botany. If I'm going to use a map, I might as well just bring a medkit.

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358
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    Yeah, but you only heal from 0-100, always wasting 40 whatever seconds before sloopy is applied, it's such a waste of a perk slot

    At least with inner, you're getting rid of one of the killers hexes at best and probably preventing noed at worst, while getting a heal in

    And let's be completely honest...no one actually cleanses totems, everytime I needed one, I knew there was always one on the map because of small game

  • Nihlus
    Nihlus Member Posts: 301
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    You're making the assumption you will find a hex and break it. Yes, if you can prime the perk before you need it, great! If you can't.... self care is sadly still faster than taking the time to locate, cleanse, and then locate a locker, and then hide in it for 8-10 seconds, or however long it takes. And even then, that's a single heal. If you get hit again later and need another hit, repeat.

    Yes, if the situation works in your favor, of course those are better perks, but my point is that it doesn't matter what situation you're in. Self care is there. It's usable. It's reliable. It's really obvious why it still gets used.