Basekit Dredge is worse than basekit Sadako
Emphasis on base kit. With add ons dredge is leagues better.
Dredge is unbelievably reliant on haddies calendar (reduced time to exit locked lockers) + boat key/ottomarian writing (increased TP speed/reduced cooldown) it's surprising they aren't base kit.
Dredge doesn't have a chase power when loops are chained together, but he is good at the edges of the map where it's harder to W key.
Basically the point is that killers shouldn't be so reliant on add ons to do decently well. Either haddies calendar should be base or locking lockers should have a bigger downside.
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He isn't that addon reliant. His main issue by far is just the map you get him on. Some maps have terrible locker spawns in relation to gens.
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On a tangent, not that these stats mean much, but I just noticed that Sadko and Dredge are in the top three killers for kill rate over the last 30 days on Nightlight. (It’s Sadako, Nurse and Dredge in that order.) Obviously I don’t put much stock in these individual killer numbers on this site since its they’re based on voluntary uploads and swing pretty wildly month to month, but thought it was a funny coincidence since the thread is complaining about both of them. 🙂
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I always find that the "worst" killers tend to get the most kills in my survivor games. I attribute this those killers nearly always sweating insanely hard in their playstyle and almost always bringing their top addons, while more regular killers are still a mix-bag of whatever addons they felt like.
Like I don't think I've ever seen a Sadako who isn't shamelessly teleporting right back to every single hook. And it's been a LONG time since I saw a trapper without at least one of the iris.
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Where do you get this statistic? I want to see all of available (I mean not only about killer pick rate).
Regardless topic, it is true they said "statistic is a third lie". Looks like Sadako is stronger than nurse, just less popular :)
Post edited by EvilSerje on0 -
HAHAHAHAH hell no!! Sadako with Tape and Ring Drawing can get kills without any hooks, technically better than Dredge's best addons. However, Dredge is just still objectively better in chase, stealth and more fun.
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Hard disagree from me.
Dredge is extremely reliant on the map it gets on, but its basekit is performing pretty decently.
It's not the strongest Killer in the game, but it is far from the weakest.
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Actually I think broadly speaking stealth killers do particularly well against average survivors but against very observant survivors and especially observant survivors on comms stealth becomes much weaker. That’s why for instance I think historically Pig has had great overall kill rates whenever the devs release those stats but the consensus is she doesn’t do as well at the higher end.
So it wouldn’t surprise me if Sadako and Dredge do ok in the overall numbers but are weaker at the top end.
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I can't play dredge without haddie's calendar, just feels like I'm spending half the game pawing at the inside of a locker otherwise
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Nightlight. Just some caveats
- The mods have mentioned they don’t want links posted to aggregate sites because a lot of them use Steam API for data collection and the game doesn’t support that. (I don’t use Steam API for anything personally so I don’t know much about it either way.) They don’t seem to mind numbers from the site being posted though, they just don’t want to encourage people to use Steam API for anything.
- The site appears to get thousands of matches per week but that’s obviously still a relatively small data set, and since its voluntary you can’t really put too much stock in the character specific kill rates and pick rates. For instance for all I know there’s one insanely good Sadako player uploading all their matches and heavily skewing it his month. The overall average kill rate across all killers seems pretty consistent at 56% post rework though so that might be a bit more reliable for the general MMR bracket of its users.
- It also tracks the pick rates for perks based on opponent data (i.e. if I upload my match it counts the perks my opponents used for perk pick rates as opposed to the perks I used.) That makes the perk pick rates a bit more reliable, although it still has a bias in that its mostly English speaking regions using the site and perk popularity varies by region. (So for example Self Care is a lot less popular on this site than it is across all regions because apparently Self Care is insanely popular in Asia and elsewhere.)
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Nope, Dredge is like two tiers above her. You can also put good addons on Dredge for better results.
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Are we playing the same game? Dredge base-kit is waaaayyyyy better
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I been maining Dredge for a few weeks now and I don't think I've once ran Haddies calender, so I'd have to say I disagree with you.
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Nightlights kill and pick rates actually only comes from survivor matches uploaded to the site, so someone only playing a specific killer and 4King every game wouldn't skew the stats if they posted their own killer matches. From their about section:
Where is this data from?
These stats are aggregated from thousands of Survivor matches uploaded to NightLight.
Is there a way to change the date span?
In the interest of avoiding any issues including those relating to sample size, the date range is currently set to 30 days no matter the start date.
Why are there no stats for today?
Stats are gathered from the NightLight servers at around 4pm UTC each day so as to somewhat align with DBD patch times. If you visit before that time, the latest data will be from up to 4pm on the previous day.
What is the definition of a kill?
Kills are regarded as anything other than escapes, non-given hatch escapes, and hatch escapes with a key.
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I have been maining him for a while now and use all sorts of different add-ons and combo's. I rarely use haddies calendar; I think his Purples and Greens are way better. It's a great add-on but things like Feild Recorder, Broken Doll, Malthinkers Skull, etc etc are just way too strong to give up most of the time.
Even if I wasn't using those, I would probably swap over to the Microphone addon with lethal pursuer for map-wide wallhacks instead of any of those ones you mentioned
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mobility not locked behind a 100 second cooldown & actual anti loop I don't see it
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Thanks for the clarification, that's even better than I thought then. 🙂
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Sadako has a directional 24m lullaby that counters her own stealth, 100 sec cooldown on her teleport, said teleport is the only means she has of applying condemned to act as slowdown with it needing to be used 7 times to do anything and can be quickly removed, barely giving value, AND has less chase potential than Legion who at least chases you while you're injured since the first hit is free.
Dredge has anti-loop; a weak form but good enough to get through filler tiles and can be used in some crafty ways. Its mobility is, comparatively, very slow and can be slowed more, but can never be outright stopped and has a much more lenient 12 second cooldown after 3 possible teleports. When Nightfall happens, its mobility becomes very oppressive, its cooldowns are almost nonexistent, it gets stealth, and even some Detection in the form of KI and the white outlines.
While Dredge has it has a lot more things going for it than Sadako who just has... nothing. She's held back by the many restrictions on her kit that just stops it from working.
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The sadako mori path is not great on bp generation which means actually stringing games together is more expensive then many consider. Traditional hook and down killers will generate way more bp since they will get full value from the sacrifice category.
With busted powerful killer add ons your rarely losing to much on po8nts but tombstone penace centric playstyles tend to rob you on potential sacrifice points.
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I get around 29,000 bloodpoints per match as sadako If I win. that is decent amount of bloodpoints per match.
The lowest score for me is sacrifice which is around 4000 bloodpoints. Its because I don't really hook anyone besides last two hooks.
Sadako bloodpoints is gains are fine. Its mostly that since your not hooking anyone, sacrifice category suffers from killer win condition.
Dredge is kinda overrated. I think haddies calendar is placebo add-on. in my opinion, you should run Lavalier Microphone + Malthinker's skull with sloppy butcher for dredge. they're his best add-on for spamming nightfall and setting up ambushes with aura-reading.
I wouldn't say he is add-on dependant more so that his kit only good against inexperienced players that do not know loop locations in nightfall and do not know how to switch tiles against remnant.
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respectfully disagree
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Dredge is the embodiment of despair manifest, like when I channel Dredge’s power and see literally zero lockers in anywhere in an area.
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Sometimes I bring game offerings because even though the pallets are horrendous at least it have decent locker coverage. Its usually my backup for when Midwiches or Lerys run out.
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No.
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The devs added more lockers during Dredge’s release patch, but even with that, there’s still not enough/giant gaps on a lot of maps. I hope the devs do something about it. I really enjoy Dredge but being screwed over by pure RNG really detracts from the experience.
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You know its bad when RPD is one of the more enjoyable maps.
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One of the swamp maps has barely any lockers at all around it, I'm guessing they forgot about it when adding more to all the maps because it's just miserable as Dredge. At least other maps have a bunch of badly-placed ones.
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Dredge is a relatively strong jack of all trades. Yes, he is weak if loops are chained together. But so is any other m1 killer. If you don't count range nurse, speed add ons blight, or mother daughter ring spirit, his movement is one of the best in the game. Bad locker rng is not really that big of an issue tbh. Nightfall is just a big bonus as well
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I have found that Sadako is an god-tier noob stomper, which I think is the biggest thing wrong with her ranking. Once you progress her into higher MMR, things get rough, quick.
I think Dredge's kill rate is also a little inflated for the same reason, but Dredge has much better viability at higher ranks.
As for the topic, I don't feel like Dredge is all that add-on dependent, though it certainly has some good ones.
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The Remnant is a pretty crap anti-loop.
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I think more generally being Undetectable is an effect that helps you most against average survivors but at the high end of the skill pool the survivors have a lot more situational awareness and being Undetectable becomes less useful the more observant the opponents are. So not just Sadako and Dredge but also Pig and Ghost Face all do proportionally very well against average survivors because Undetectable is so strong in that environment but become a lot weaker at the high end of the rating pool.
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Yeah, that's a big part of it. Lower level survs are highly dependent on the terror radius and being able to predict where the killer is. Undetectable and (especially combined with) TP really wreak havoc on new-ish survs who haven learned how to monitor their surroundings as well.
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TP?
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teleportation
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Got it, thanks. 🙂 Teleportation is a more universally useful effect, I think. Even against good opponents being able to get around the map quickly and attack from a variety of angles is beneficial.
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He's add-on reliant because his ability is slow and/or unresponsive, a theme the devs have been keeping up with since Twins.
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It's probably also due to teammates playing bad. Why else are we getting 4k'd by Trapper and Ghost Face? Why?
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You do have to make snap decisions with it and commit hard to whatever decision you made, similar to Demogorgon's shred, meaning it's very inconsistent even at the shortest loops. But also, his ability in general feels slow and/or unresponsive, if you get what I mean. He should be able to use his tp about as instant as Hag's, but for some reason it isn't like that, and that allows his power to not be true anti-loop.
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