Windows of Opportunity is an unfair advantage.

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Before anyone types “use Zashin Tactics” I’m not wasting a perk slot for that trash. Survivors run WOO to learn how to loop, cool, it’s fine. It or really needs some sort of range nerf or cool-down. I know it previously did and it was trash so idk. But I really think it’s an unfair advantage.. why are prestige 80 people still running it… and I play killer and survivor 50/50 sooo…

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Comments

  • HugTheHag
    HugTheHag Member Posts: 3,140
    edited September 2022
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    You don't want to use Zenshin tactics because you don't want to waste a perk slot. Consider that survivors who run WoO are wasting a perk slot for it. Like, literally, the perk exists in both survivors and killers. It's anything but unfair. It's just about willingness to use a perk slot for it.

    Plus as others have said, Blindness is not such a rare status effect to go by.

  • MeanieDeeny
    MeanieDeeny Member Posts: 533
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    It’s really easy to identify when a survivor is running it (though it does look a bit silly on high levels)…if you feel you’re being looped/ran too long, by someone using it, why not just temporarily go for someone else? You know what they’re trying to do.


    Though I also find the perk mildly annoying, it’s more up to the killer to know when to drop chase and move on. Or stay motivated! You’ll get them eventually.

  • DEMONANCE
    DEMONANCE Member Posts: 800
    edited September 2022
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    not gonna lie windows carries bad survivors so hard (i know cuz i am one of those and i love the perk) but it's very clear when you chase survivors that barely look behind them in chase or their mindgames are not the best yet they always know where the next pallet is while you're chasing them so that sometimes you have to drop chase (especially on pallet dense maps or indoor maps) that the perk is carrying

    example :- i saw a feng on badham that never looked behind her yet she kept going from a pallet to another insta dropping them (she must have dropped (6-10) pallets on her own plus the ones her teammates used and there were still pallets in the endgame on the map and it turns out she has windows

    i don't want the perk nerfed cuz it was very bad before with the cooldown but it'd be nice if there was a solid blindness perk to counter it ( the closest thing to that is third seal and that's a hex)

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959
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    I agree this perk is lowkey OP. It turns mediocre survivors into decent loopers and prevents them from ever running to dead zones

  • drakolyr
    drakolyr Member Posts: 322
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    Change it? Ok!


    Lets add the effect to other survivors aswell if someone brings it. :)

  • Underdawg
    Underdawg Member Posts: 193
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    The best killers that I have seen play don't let survivors direct where the chase goes. They cut them off and force them into dangerous situations and dead zones. It's a skill I'd love to have when I play killer 😥

  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,177
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    WoO is the only reason blindness is a semi serious/useful effect vs a slugging tool exclusively.

  • Underdawg
    Underdawg Member Posts: 193
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    Fair point.

    I still feel that having general map knowledge negates the advantage gained by WoO - and it is hardly a perk that I would say is an unfair advantage.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    That’s why I said the survivors direct the chases “for the most part”. Killers can influence and herd survivors a bit but they can’t directly make the survivor run a particular way.

  • Rovend
    Rovend Member Posts: 1,047
    edited September 2022
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    Dont let the devs see this topic, they will 'ironwill it' by making it not work while exhausted and seeing half the items

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321
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    Are you new to the game by any chance?

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,852
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    Its your choice that you wont waste a perk on Zanshin Tactics, the survivor you complain about did choose to "waste" a perk slot on a perk that does the same.

    They loose that advantage if you "waste" a perk slot on it

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    If you've got a big enough net, you can catch the whole ocean

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    They don't provide the same value, nor even for the same reasons though. One is absolutely less of a waste than the other, before even getting into how important those slots are in the first place. Zanshin doesn't provide any meaningful metadata like Windows does.

  • EvilSerje
    EvilSerje Member Posts: 1,070
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    "Nerf Windows of Opportunity", from the creators of "Securing my kill", "Don't care about someone fun" and "doing my objective".

    But I know the solution for Windows of Opportunity: let's remove windows and pallets from every map. Interesting what next complain would be?

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,178
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    I'm glad we're back to the "Survivor's aren't allowed to have decent perks." the forum.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,178
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    WoO does nothing to enhance a Survivor's looping ability. More info doesn't suddenly make a Survivor have better movement or mindgame skill. A bad survivor with WoO is still a bad survivor, they just know where to hold W to a tiny bit faster.

    A decent looper with this perk would still be a decent looper without it.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
    edited September 2022
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    While that last statement is certainly true, not as much the one before it. Windows enhances looping ability by giving more info to make decisions faster and more efficiently, and gives the added bonus of helping players spread out resource usage so they know which pallets to skip to avoid creating dead zones, which windows are close enough to each other that a pallet isn't even needed, which pallets (or doors!) can be used to force the killer to reset bloodlust with the break, etc. A lot of that data only really benefits the players who even know to use it, as worse or less experienced loopers aren't even going to be considering those things and are more likely to panic.

  • YOURFRIEND
    YOURFRIEND Member Posts: 3,389
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    People using Windows to "learn to loop" is a bad misconception. It's a great perk regardless of skill level because it shows what resources your teammate has used and what walls the killer has gotten rid of. That information is valuable regardless of skill level.

    If it really bothers you that much there are perks and killers that counter it. I get good mileage out of third seal legion and kerosene bottle clown. You can tell the survs that lean hard on Windows because they lose all ability to loop as soon as they get blinded.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,852
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    I disagree, Zanshin show you where he is heading, use it to intercept and block him.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    That has nothing to do with zanshin if you have basic understanding of tiles, and is its "beginner" application. Due to how procedural generation works, it stops providing value after that information is learned.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
    edited September 2022
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    Windows gives you much more and much more useful metadata as well. As myself and others have noted in the topic, it gives you plenty of extra info on which resources have been spent and which ones you can chain together without creating dead zones, which ones you can force the killer to break to reset bloodlust, which ones you can prolong for extended durations due to their configuration, etc. Since you are both the one leading the chase as well as having 3 other unknowns in the form of allies, that metadata alone creates a big disparity between their potential values. If nothing else, think about this: Why would you need to know a pallet is no longer at a jungle gym if you had to break it in the first place? You already witnessed its destruction, you don't need a perk to tell you its no longer there.

    None of this is even getting into specifics, like using it to keep track of fake pallets from freddy, or other general uses like seeing pallets drop and knowing that someone is likely in chase at that location.

  • lav3
    lav3 Member Posts: 758
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    I don't think it needs nerf but somehow wish range gets reduced to 24 or something whenever I go to Gideon Meat Plant.

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 691
    edited September 2022
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    I really hope it doesn't get nerfed because it's a good solo perk. There's information you just don't have as solo which windows compensates for.

    There's a few ways to beat it.

    1. Blindness. There's quite a few slept on perks that do this and it's got other uses too.
    2. Enduring/Spirit Fury.
    3. Brutal Strength/Fire Up or other pallet negating perks/killers. You can get downs/hits with Brutal Strength that you otherwise wouldn't.

    Realistically the problem lies in the fact some maps are just pallet factories. Going up against Windows on Gideon as the previous poster pointed out with an m1 killer is immensely frustrating. In this case if I'm not prepared I simply leave chase and harass someone else and try catch the window user off guard. If they return to where they once were, there's fewer pallets for them to use.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,852
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    Then run with floods of rage, it gives you insane data.

    BBQ also gives you "meta data"

    MYC is incredible strong.

    Jolt is also incredible strong.

  • My_Aespa
    My_Aespa Member Posts: 545
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    It's one of the only perks along with Kindred that makes solo queue tolerable. The perk is fine.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    You're talking about perk combos needing to be used to attempt parity. Thats outside the point completely, and limits builds even further due to requiring synergy. The original point was that Windows provides considerably more value than Zanshin, and is much more viable as a perk and to be worked within other builds without needing to be the center of them either. You could make arguments for open handed, bond, and any other number of perk combinations that it can synergize with as well.

    The bottom line is that windows is a perk that is mostly limited by your ability to apply deductive reasoning, while zanshin provides much more focused value, and not as much to boot.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,852
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    No, gave you a list of equal OP perks for killers, just pick one of them.

    Im all Ears could also be a counter.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,654
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    It's definitely one of the best perks in the game.

    If you're good and the killer over commits, you can win the game in the first chase (pretty sure it's helped me frustrate some killers into DCing as well).

    Great solo perk as well - Prevents bad pathing and allows you to properly lead the chase without worrying about dead zones, in most cases, that you'd otherwise be ignorant of without comms.

    I never take it off.

    People slept on it in my other topics, but low and behold, it became meta. This was verrrrry easy to see coming, but some people just like to be contrarian/ignore the actual reality of the game.

    Run it if you can, then run the killer....if you can :P

  • RatbasterdJr
    RatbasterdJr Member Posts: 702
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    WOO never leaves my build. Perfect information perk for tying in loops together, and knowing immediately where deadzones have been created.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    Are you implying that because a perk has a perk that can impact its effect, that makes it bad? Or that other perks can give auras as well? I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. If you think I want to nerf Windows or something you're not even close, as I even promote its use to give players linear value with their growth as survivors. I'd much rather zanshin have more metadata it can be used with than have windows brought down to its level.

  • Dito175
    Dito175 Member Posts: 1,391
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    This thread is a gem 😂

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 1,852
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  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    "Some."

    There will always be people who complain about things that provide their opponent any form of advantage.

  • get_barted
    get_barted Member Posts: 206
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    Killers have an issue with WoO and survivors have an issue with Lethal Persuer. sounds like a wash to me