Survivors still beat Killers pretty easily (not a complaint)
Hello,
Just wanted to make a quick post about this topic because I have seen a lot of different threads right now about Killer's Kill Rate being "high" at 61% with the new stats released, and Survivors complaining a lot that the last patch has benefited Killers too much etc.
I would like to preface my message by stating that I do consider myself a Killer Main (it is what I am better at) but I play Survivor and Killer about 50/50, especially nowadays with the new BP incentives program.
I am also a Killer that does not enjoy Camping or Tunneling, and usually go out of my way to avoid doing these things in a match whenever possible, often to my own demise. Part of the reason is because I do play Survivor enough to know how annoying and unfair camping and tunneling can feel like, and also because I simply don't consider it to be a fun playstyle.
I have over 1k Hours on Killer, and I don't consider myself to be "PRO" but I know that I am well above average at least in my general skill level.
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The honest truth is that even now after all the changes that are supposed to benefit "Killers", facing higher MMR Survivors is still completely impossible for a Killer.
Perhaps the Solo Q deaths have increased (unfortunately) with the new updates, but the Survivors that actually know how to play well together, SWF or even Solo, still dominate the match every single game.
At my current (Fairly high MMR, but definitely not the top) I usually average only around 1K, sometimes 2K if I am lucky on most of my Killers.
I've gotten pretty good on Wesker, I normally get downs with him fairly quickly and he's become one of my favorite Killers to play... yet I just played a match earlier today where 1 Survivor managed to run me for 4 gens straight. I did everything that I possibly could to down them but they had really amazing map knowledge and enough pallets and good window vaults to keep me from succeeding for 4 Full Gens..
There are Killers that are MUCH worse than Wesker at getting a down for sure, and yet there are Survivors good enough to run even Wesker for 4 gens with a decent player behind the wheels.. so yeah, these sort of things, along with people bullying with bodybockling, hook bockling, head on, flashlights, and other mechanics seem to happen all the time..
So I guess the point of my post is just to inform you guys that Against GOOD Survivors, Killers are still very weak. This hasn't changed.
I don't mind, it's just an observation and clarification, I don't think a lot of the people who complain about Killers actually know what it feels like to face against High MMR Survivors as Killer... if they really knew, I bet they wouldn't be complaining nearly as much as they are doing now.
PS. (Yes, I will admit, that against other Survivors, Killer does feel a bit TOO easy to play sometime, this is true, but its all dependant on the Survivor's skill level, because the good ones will make you feel 100% useless every time)
EDIT: (Adding this from a response I just made for newer readers)
"Bad Killers have a huge advantage over Bad Survivors.
Good Survivors have a huge advantage over Good Killers.
So, at lower MMR usually Killers will be winning most of their matches quite easily, but the higher MMR you go, the harder it gets for Killers and the Easier it gets for Survivors.
It is not consistent as you climb, because after a certain point most Survivors generally will end up in the power role instead of the Killer. It is true that Killer remains in the power role for quite some time, probably up until reaching maybe around Top 15% or so skilled Survivors, but the Top 15% Survivors actually remain in the power role over the Killers in most cases.
But then 85% of the Survivor player base feels that Killers are too strong. It's not actually true at the highest level of play, but it is true for everyone else, and this makes it extremely difficult to balance and please everybody...
I just wanted to try and shed some light on this with my post, so that people have more open eyes on the subject instead of being so one sided all the time."
Comments
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So you say Solo Q deaths have increased, so how is that survivors still beating the killer easily?
Just say it directly: SWF is still doing fine, Solo Q is not.
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Out of curiosity, why didn't you drop that chase?
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It's not just Solo Q.
Granted, I have the most frustrating teammates in Solo Q sometime when I play Survivor.
But when I play Killer it is NOT always SWF that beats me, that's unrealistic, legit many times it is still random players that just know how to play well, which is fairly common at higher mmr.
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I main Nurse and Spirit since 2020 and I've been smacked by solo survivors a lot of times.
Most of the time, solo survivors lose because of their own faults. If you have a team that knows how to be stealth and how to do gens at least, I can guarantee to you that a least 2 survivors will escape, even against experienced killers.
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I'll be honest, it wouldn't have made a difference.
A few matches in a row before that, I dropped the chase to protect gens when facing equally skilled Survivors and all that happened is I would lose pressure and the Survivor I had hit would heal up, in the end they still popped gens without me getting many downs at all.
They actually told me in end-game chat after one of the matches that I shouldn't have dropped the chase and just commited.
Either way, if you can't down ANY of them in under at least a few gens popping, which was the case against these players, it doesn't make a difference whether you drop chase or not, because the only way you will get a Hook is if you down someone and for each 1 down you will lose 2 gens on average. Time is just not in your favor.
Although in this particular case that you ask, after I saw 2 gens pop, and I was committed and thought I was close to catching him, (because I am not used to being run for more than 2 gens usually at a time) I just decided to fully commit literally just to find out and see how long it would take me to finally catch him.
Well, it was 4 gens popping before I finally downed him.
Granted, I did end up getting that 1K lol. The rest of them opened the exit gates too soon and I decided not to hook him and just dropped him in the middle of the map, eventually they got him up, but by then even though the other got out I was able to bodyblock him from getting to the exit and he died to EGC lol..
Tbh, it wasn't very satisfying, but there was nothing else left to do by that point. The entire game was essentially 1 hook, 1 gen pop, then a 4 gen pop chase and EGC.
Not saying this is how it goes all the time, usually it doesn't, but at a certain skill level I can assure you that a Survivor can easily run me multiple gens all by themselves, and whether I give up the chase or I don't, it never seems to be the right choice or make a difference. They know exactly what they're doing lol
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Im alittle confused what percentage would you think killer is to high then? 70%? 80%?
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Don't expect to beat good survivors when they are more skilled than you. You just have to contimue play and improve as decent killer is not enough agains't them unless they make mistakes. I know it's annoying to lose good team but it's not really fair to expect to win. I hate these teams too but the game can't be balanced around average or decent killer beating them as then average killer would destroy everyone else easily which happens quite often even now in soloQ. There are maybe few buffs which would help killers just agains't them for example Oni starting with his power would not affect anyone else much but good teams don't give you that first hit so it would make Oni viable agains't them.
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DBD is still balanced around on which side brings the strongest stuff and applies the sweatiest tactics. The problem is that it's very unlikely that all 4 on a solo team play like that, hence why solo Q sucks.
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Unfortunately for a lot of killers on here they are super boosted. Camp first hook, tunnel first hook. Rinse/repeat.
Playing that way allows lower-skilled players to get better results than their skill should give them.
Survivors are Plenty boosted too, usually by SWFs. Weaker member who should not be escaping are escaping due to being hard carried.
Many killers on here don't seem to want to accept that they are boosted at the role. Fact is, unless you are playing against tournament level SWFs on comms then the reason you are losing 'easily' is a skill issue.
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The problem is that it's really, really difficult to balance both the killer/solo and the killer/SWF matchups.
I'm not sure more info would help solos much, because you can't force coordination and cooperation.
As I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to see some improvements to the survivor reward paradigm, in terms of making it a bit easier to pip on losing games and a bit harder to depip.
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Sure I also escape in solo q. Never said that is impossible. But when escape rates are 39% and there was ab already big difference between solo and SWF escapes, we can only imagine how solo q escapes are at. Not high, at all.
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A trapper without addons and perkless can also win matches, doesn't mean it is ok.
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Edit: nvm
Post edited by brokedownpalace on0 -
I often stress that killers ascend MMR more easily than survivors (often through the tactics you’ve described), and this misleads killer players into thinking they possess a level of skill they do not actually have. Because the skill curve is so much higher for survivors at low to middle ranks, they have to work harder to rank up. When survivors do reach higher ranks, it’s because they are generally more skilled than those killers who essentially blew through ranks by using thoughtless techniques (camping/tunneling). So when killers like OP face these survivors, they believe survivors have an unfair advantage or that the game, in some way, is slanted toward survivors. But that isn’t true at all. It really is a skill issue, and one that BHVR unfortunately allows to proliferate.
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Not in solo queue. I tried to have one - one - decent match in solo queue yesterday. I have thousands of hours, mostly on survivor, yet somehow couldn’t get one team in over five matches to get all the generators done. I saw it all, from early give ups and disconnects, to survivors being left dead on first hook (I was injured and trusting the healthy Bill to do the right thing, the other time it was me), someone meandering around their gen all spooked right after a hook, despite the hooked survivor having Kindred and it not being a stealth killer...
Then I preview a few of the profiles on Steam to see around 500 or even over a thousand hours on these people. Like, how do you not know how to play Dead by Daylight after that long? I want to play survivor, mostly because killer wait times are annoyingly long. But are fast queue times and double BP really worth putting up with these kind of teammates?
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My approach to this scenario when I play killers is one of lenience, and I recommend others do that as well. Because a as a solo survivor I know how frustrating and confusing it is to experience teams that have no synchronicity, when I play killer I do try to hold back so that there is more of a tug between the survivors and me. If I hook, I won’t camp and I won’t try to injure or down anyone else until at least the other person has been unhooked if the survivors are at around 4-5 gens remaining. I may chase them off gens but I won’t actually strike them until a Gen has popped. As they actually complete gens though I’ll dial up my own methods. Because I never run into merciful or considerate killers, I try to be that myself.
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The real "issue" here is that MMR now has such a generous soft cap that people are getting matched with opponents and teammates who aren't really on the same skill level.
Personally, I don't consider this a problem, because I want some variety in the skill levels of my opponents and teammates. I don't like going into every game knowing that I'm going to get a 2k or have 2 survivors escape. I want to go into games where any result is possible; a 4k, a 0k, 3 escapes, 1 escape, anything. Not only does it give me a chance to learn from my mistakes if I lose, but it keeps the games more fresh if I don't know what is generally going to be the result before I even start the game.
The soft cap of the MMR system has basically just replicated rank based matchmaking. There are so many people who are able to reach "rank 1" (i.e. the MMR soft cap) that it's a grab bag of player skill... and I kinda like it that way.
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I agree with this, but I do feel like there are plenty of Survivors that can still easily "Bully" Killers even after the update, that was my only comment about this, because so many Survivors are complaining that Killers are too "buffed" now, and I don't think that is entirely true honestly having played both roles.
If killers were truly as strong as people make it out to be, then it would not be so easily possible to bully them or 4 gen chases wouldn't be a thing.
The biggest issue with DBD which is something that I've actually made a post about a VERY long time ago, and it is just the way the game works...
Bad Killers have a huge advantage over Bad Survivors.
Good Survivors have a huge advantage over Good Killers.
So, at lower MMR usually Killers will be winning most of their matches quite easily, but the higher MMR you go, the harder it gets for Killers and the Easier it gets for Survivors.
It is not consistent as you climb, because after a certain point most Survivors generally will end up in the power role instead of the Killer. It is true that Killer remains in the power role for quite some time, probably up until reaching maybe around Top 15% or so skilled Survivors, but the Top 15% Survivors actually remain in the power role over the Killers in most cases.
But then 85% of the Survivor player base feels that Killers are too strong. It's not actually true at the highest level of play, but it is true for everyone else, and this makes it extremely difficult to balance and please everybody...
I just wanted to try and shed some light on this with my post, so that people have more open eyes on the subject instead of being so one sided all the time.
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