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Unbreakable Basekit?
I can’t believe someone at BHVR took this idea seriously enough to put it in a PTB. It doesn’t take much time to think this through and see all the problems it is going to cause.
If you think camping, tunneling, and toxic behavior was bad enough already then we are not prepared for whats to come. We don’t need a PTB to know this is going to need some serious alterations.
Don’t get me wrong. I think BHVR has done an amazing job with grind reduction, perk changes, and overall game health this year. I am thankful for all you have done, but please trust me when I say you are making a huge mistake with this change devs.
Thank god this isn’t going to be live yet.
Comments
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maybe if you killers didn't constantly slug this wouldnt need to happen. you reap what you sow.
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It's necessary because of the Finishing Mori. 4 slugged survivors automatically ends the game, so slugging would become the preferred option to hooking for alot of killers.
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It wasn't because people constantly slugged, its because it would become the main way to kill off survivors with the new mori mechanic.
lmao
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Then why TF did they not just reduce the slugging capability on them killers (like alc ring on blight) instead of hard nerfing literally every other killer in the game by giving survivors their 3rd best perk base kit?
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Yeah pretty much. They added that because the killer now can insta kill multiple survivors if he's good enough and downs a few fast enough, (including last man standing). When it comes to 4k slugging, it doesn't do much, because last 2 will not be allowed to leave anyway, and this time they will not even be able to bleed out easilly
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I'm having a hard time seeing where this becomes hugely problematic. 45 seconds is a long time to be in a 3v1. If you're being forced to slug, 99% of the time it's because you have an immediate chase option and those are situations where you wouldn't be picking up/hooking anyway. They're typically easy wins when teams try to gang up around the killer.
The only issue I can see is Sabo to force drops, but that's a non-issue between Agitation+game sense
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yeah it sorta makes it quite risky to dance around the killer and take protection hits also :) I like that part
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I'm a Forced Penance+Agitation enjoyer on a lot of killers as it is. Bully squads have a very hard time with it
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Allegedly Unbreakable cuts that time down by half.
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A. You shouldn't have to be comsidering always taking a perk to combat a base game mechanic.
B. You can just use unbreakable to halve your self pickup time.
C. 45 seconds alone is short enough that unless you see a survivor 10 feet away and injured it isn't worth chasing them, effectively killing slugging which is another snowball chance for killer.
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Some killers (Twins) are essentially forced to constantly slug.
That is how they work.
That said:
It's a good change. Knockout sluggers are far worse than even campers.
Twins need a substantial rework though, as this is going to be brutal for them.
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it's not like bully squads are actually problematic even now. They are quite weak anyway, and you only lose of you get angry. I mean they waste too much time dancing around you, instead of doing gens.... But probably they will risk it less if insta kill can get them. Or who knows? We just have to wait and see
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Yeah okay twins is an outlier. Who coincidentally slugs less than other killers who have zero reason too.
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The only times I've seen excessive slugging outside of Twins are:
- People who don't know any better.
- People who are doing it tactically, as they think there's someone else around (pallet save situations). This can result in a back and forth around a slug.
- People doing it to BM, usually with Knockout.
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Oh 100%. I say bully squad more in terms of the attempt, not actual success on their end. It rarely works against an experienced killer.
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But again, you generally shouldn't be slugging in the situations where this makes slugging less viable. It's not a good play to just slug for the sake of it when you don't have another survivor to immediately chain a chase to.
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Barring nurse blight and spirit how many killers do you know that can down and get back to the survivor in less than 45 seconds? The new change isn't just it kills slugging when it doesn't make sense it's just it kills slugging. It's another stopgap on killer snowballing. Which is how killers win.
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what does it matter if killers constantly slug? 45 seconds is absolutely NOT enough time to do anything. Someone did the math: if a swf is running unbreakable and boon: ex, they can get someone with flip flop able to use power struggle in less than eight seconds. Literally what? "You reap what you sow." ?? There are killers literally MADE to slug and camp. Put up with it. Killers had to put up with several devastating more and hook changes, you can put up with a little slugging.
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No one slug in 2022 unless you are playing against specific killers and even so it's rarely seen.. Are you a time traveler from the past?
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You don't need to down someone though. It's a 1 for 1 at the pallet if they're injured and try for the save unless you don't swing your weapon after the pickup animation.
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in what world do you believe this is reality? People are constantly getting slugged for 4k's. Hell atleast 3 of my games yesterday where killers leaving 3 slugged while looking for the 4th survivor. Slugging has become a huge problem and now we got people straight up lying about it.
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Sure, give Charlotte a way to teleport to Victor then and we'll talk.
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once again twins is an outlier. you can blame the killers that slug for the 4k at 5 gens for screwing twins. Maybe now bhvr will finally get around to that rework of the twins. This change needed to happen because killers couldn't help themselves.
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Bro you have a serious superiority complex, everyone is at fault but yourself. Just be stop dude. And did you ever stop to think about what the killer side goes through? Like how survivors can run to the corner of a map where it’s impossible to hook them, or on midwhich or the game where hook spawns can be atrocious which ALSO makes it impossible to hook people.
You aren’t the center of the universe, start thinking beyond what YOU deal with.
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The unbreakable change makes sense for me, since slugging is just a boring strat when they just want to go around and hunt people to floor only. Maybe the timer might be altered, but I get why it's in place. I tend to pick people up fairly quickly, so maybe it doesn't affect me when I play killer.
The Mori change is absolutely the strangest thing they've done since they said Hillbilly was exactly where they wanted him, before nerfing him needlessly. The reasons they give for the change have barely been mentioned as any issue, and the commonality of them happening can make them rather boring after a while. They don't need to be seen every match!
I guess the proof in the pudding while be when the PTB goes live. If people find ways to prove these changes completely useless, then maybe they'll revert or alter the changes, but the main thing about this update is that its main focus is on chamges to a Mori system I do not feel survivors nor killers really had a problem with overall.
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I was a killer main until 6.1 killed the queue times, now I really only can play survivor because of my limited free time.
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I like how no one asked for a "Finishing Mori" system that now BUFFS THE HELL out of every survivor by giving them ANOTHER free perk and taking away the slugging mechanic from Killers, is somehow a good idea, but they make ZERO effort to combat the hacking and cheating problem that's literally destroying the game already.
Slap a few Sabo builds on a SWF and spread in some Flip-Flop, Breakout, Breakdown, and Flashlights in combination with all the new base-kit ######### they now have, and you have completely decimated your Killer Base by denying them hooks.
This seriously makes me want to quit the game for good.
Post edited by XANA7274 on4 -
So like usual, its a nerf to the entire roster which upends multiple mechanics, perks, and addons all because people get annoyed with a thing nurse can do.
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I'm confused. I thought we wanted a massive shake up of the game/perks/meta... or is that only when it benefits killers?
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Where is this us vs them coming from? And how do any of those 0.2second changes even come close to getting two meta perks for absolute free (and better versions, at that?) If the issue was actually because nurse could 4k slug at 5 gens, then it needed a much more targeted response.
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I think it's really the second bullet point that might need to be monitored. For example, say you down someone under a pallet and there's another survivor nearby. If you don't chase the other survivor they'll get a pallet save so your only option is to slug the dying survivor there, at least for a bit. Now the question becomes, is 45 seconds long enough in that situation that you can drive off the other survivor or down them and still manage to collect a hook state in the process on one of them? If not then the dying survivor will just stand up while you're chasing the other player and you've gotten nothing for your trouble other than increasing that dying survivor's bleed out timer by 45 seconds out of 4 minutes.
The other thing regarding that second point is that while you have someone slugged for pressure, for instance, currently you can do it and know another survivor will eventually have to go revive them. But with this new system if I slug someone for pressure the other survivors who I don't chase can just stay on gens the entire time and know the slugged survivor will just stand back up. So it does lessen the impact of single survivor slugging for pressure a bit. That's not to say it's not still worth doing depending on the scenario, but it is a bit weaker.
It's hard for me to tell the overall impact of all this without trying it out. It's definitely a survivor buff but how much of one in total I'm not sure. 🤷♂️
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It's not just twins, Oni, Myers, and Plague all need to slug while their power is active or it is wasted.
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If Twins are playing fairly I don't even count it as slugging. Victor downs someone across the map then you have to return to the main killer body to go and get them. If there is another survivor on your journey it makes sense to go for them. Leaving the player downed in this instance is excusable.
I see slugging in about 80% of matches where there are two survivors left. This is probably why they're doing it, not because the odd killer loves instaslugging all 4 survivors. The former is getting stale.
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They don't "need" to. Especially for more than 45 seconds. Healing speed lowering this cooldown is indeed a bit worrying though.
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Yes, let's group every killer into one category
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I don't recall killers getting a ton of perks made base kit so they can now walk around with 7-8 perks each in a game.
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Give victor the ability to drag the other survivor to charlotte while she's still doing her thing.
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I wouldn't mind it if it was longer than 45 seconds, didn't synergize with recovery perks and maybe couldn't be used all the time throughout the match. With Exponential and Unbreakable, you can get back up in 11 seconds. There's the new meta right there. This wasn't thought out seriously.
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I don't think the goal behind this update was to end slugging (45s is a lot of time anyway - half a gen) but to implement another means of ending the game. Just so happened a side effect would be hooks being a less desirable option. So they bandaid that with basekit Unbreakable.
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I wonder if they can fix bubba before this change? because otherwise... we'll know what happen.
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Slugging was hardly the gripe of the day. We wouldn't have to slug if survivors weren't always going for beamer stuns on pickup and trying to sabo hooks.
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The question isn't really "is 45 seconds long enough" it's "is 22 seconds long enough" because given how powerful Unbreakable just became you have to assume that most survivors will have it.
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They're related, if the 45 second time is too short and it gets raised that also raises the time with Unbreakable.
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Related yes, but as I stated given how powerful they've made Unbreakable a killer would have to assume that they have it, just like old DH & DS.
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Slugging for the 4k should be addressed. But not like this. And specifically Slugging for the 4k/slugging everyone is the issue. Slugging in general (as in just leaving one or two slugs while all 4 survivors are still alive) is something I personally think needs to stay and this kind of kills that too. I'd buff all of the anti slugging perks and maybe give basekit unbreakable once everyone is on the ground. But just always being able to get yourself up? Always, really? Yuck.
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I have the feeling there are people here that blamed survivors for overreacting so much regarding all the buffs killers got in the 6.1.0 update, and are now overreacting to this change themselves, because now it's a change that favor survivors. It's only a few I believe, but still pretty damn hypocritical of them.
I am positive that people here are just overreacting on these forums. That doesn't seem like an uncommon theme anyways. We will see, but the only problem I see is the buffed Unbreakeable, which is going to be way too strong. The basekit 45 seconds unbreakeable is going to be very healthy for the game in general in my opinion.
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This is DbD.
It is a BHVR.
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How is being able to pick yourself up after 45 seconds better than Unbreakeable? I guess Unbreakeable was a one time use perk, but still. Those slugging situations are not very common, and you generally don't get to use it more than once.
Killers got a bunch of solid buff in the last 6.1.0 midchaper update. Those buffs weren't perks added to basekit, but that doesn't make them any less impactful.
Kill rates are at 61%, and queue times are always longer for killer. It's good that survivors are getting some improvements now, and I for one am also hoping for a few more nerfs to camping and/or tunneling in the coming update as well. I hope they at the very least buff DS to 5 seconds again, that is a must.
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Yeah I am pretty sure this is going to go live at some point. Maybe with some small alterations, but it will most likely go live.
Killers got a bunch of buffs in the 6.1.0 update, and they did indeed go through with all those changes, it's fine for survivors to get some nice improvements as well. People will have to deal with buffs to survivors as well, just like people had to deal with all the buffs that killers received. I also just really can't see BHVR going back on a change like this that favors survivors, after having gone through with all the changes that improved killer. Not a smart move, especially considering queue times are clearly longer for killers.
Being able to pick yourself after 45 seconds should not be a problem. It will really only nerf hard slugging, which is a very good and healthy thing for the game. The new, buffed Unbreakeable will become a huge problem if it actually gets released with 100% increased recovery speed, no doubt. It should probably just stay at the 35% increased recovery speed, which will be good enough considering the ability to pick yourself up now can be used an unlimited amount of time. But the basekit 45 seconds Unbreakeable I am sure will be completely fine.
But yeah, survivors getting changes that benefit them is also completely fine. It's not only killers that have to benefit from changes. I do really hope we will see more nerfs to camping and tunneling, because I do believe those are bigger issues than slugging, but I am very much looking forward to this change as well, it will be very healthy for the game.
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I think you read pretty much all of that data wrong, but you're welcome to feel how you do.
I will clarify that proposed basekit UB has the ability to be used multiple times compared to current UB, while also being able to stack with perks to increase its speed to more than make up for the basekit version taking longer. Running UB after these changes will objectively be better than it is running it now, and running it basekit will still be better technically as the killer will have no idea if the perk is in play or not, which gives it the DS effect of needing to make a risk/reward read on whether to respect it or not.
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