why do survivors get stronger perks?
This is something that's always bothered me. Why do survivors get stronger perks on average than killers? Survivors outnumber the killer 4 and yet they're allowed basekit bt, basekit infinite unbreakable(potentially) and a 5th perk with items. Ontop of that they get insane perks like reassurance, hyperfocus, lucky break, and dead hard. Like why?
If bhvr isn't going to balance low tier killers the least they could do is give actual strong perks or weaken the survivor ones enough to actually force them to play a team based game.
Comments
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Oh are we back to complaining about Lucky Break? That died down a bit so I was wondering when I'd see it next
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It speaks volumes that you think I'm complaining about the perk. Instead of pointing out how the side with a massive perk advantage has much stronger perks overall. Glad to see you implicitly agree that it is strong though
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DeadLock is one of the strongest perks in the game and has no activation requirement on the killer's side and is often paired with Lethal Pursuer which also has no activation requirement.
This pairing can make a game nigh unwinnable in less than 1 minute of playtime.
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Yup. Deadlock, no way out, noed are probably some of the strongest. Versus the plethora of perks that are nearly as strong and also boosted by the fact that you can stack them up to 4 times
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I agree that the latest chapter contained two strong survivor perks (Reassurance and Hyperfocus), but you have to look at the bigger picture. In the last few chapters alone, killers have received multiple meta/strong perks like Lethal Pursuer, Plaything, Pain Res, Call Of Brine, Merciless Storm). I mean, look at the last few survivors and their perks: Haddie, Yoichi, and Jonah... none of them had anything remotely meta or particularly strong (maybe Overcome but it's probably the least popular exhaustion perk and I suppose I case could be made for Residual Manifest). In fact, I'd argue that prior to the latest chapter, the last real 'meta'/really strong perk that survivors got was COH with Michaela.
Also, items counting as 'fifth perks' is no different to killers having addons, no? Is a survivor with a medkit/flashlight really that problematic when addons like Tombstone, Alchemist's Ring, Iri Head, Pinky Finger, and Mother-Daughter Ring exist?
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Thats because survivors have had meta perks for years. For instance why would anyone ever take off an exhaustion perk besides to handicap themselves. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a few survivor perks that aren't at least a benefit. Meanwhile killer has 6 good perks maybe?
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Because seeing survivors at the start for 10 seconds is comparable to doing your objective in half the time
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You do realize that aprox 60% of all surv perks are very situational or straight up garbage tier.
And basekit bt was made to fix a fault in game mechanic that was a killer downing a surv the moment he touches the floor after unhook.
And basekit unbreakable is in its earliest stages and will probably be tweaked, fixed, nerfed if needed.
And of the 4 "insake perks" you described, 3 have already been nerfed, dead hard being nerfed 3 times in the same patch.
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Because games are entirely decided by perks and not by killers and maps like say 3 specific killers that basically break the game
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So which perk(s) are we talking about?
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Only 6?
Sorry to be a contrarian, but off the top of my head: BBQ, Tinkerer, Pain Res, Deadlock, DMS, Lethal Pursuer, Discordance, Corrupt, No Way Out/Blood Warden, Call of Brine, Starstruck, Thana, Devour, Pentimento, etc etc. These are all strong and/or meta perks, and there are more I missed out.
Then, if you want to talk survivor perks that range from mediocre to outright useless: Corrective Action, This Is Not Happening, Poised, Premonition, Technician, Slippery Meat, Dark Theory, Empathetic Connection, Inner Focus, Self-Preservation, etc.
I would argue there's a pretty fair balance of meta, good, mediocre, and bad perks amongst killers and survivors.
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If you think thana is good you haven't played the game in a few weeks I take it
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😂🤣 This is the funniest comment I've read in a while... I needed a good laugh thanks.
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Okay, remove Thana from my list and replace it with Eruption.
My point still stands.
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Most survivor perks either provide too little benefit, are way too situational, or have activation requirements that you're not at all guaranteed to meet even across several matches. It's extremely rare that they influence the outcome significantly.
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Okay I'll now list all strong/meta survivor perks. All exhaustion perks. Thats at least 6 if you wanna ignore the lesser ones. Reassurance, lucky break, coh, you could argue street wise now, prove, hyperfocus, adrenaline, unbreakable, ontop of that they have medkits and toolboxes, ontop of that you're 4x more likely to be sent to a map that favours them massively.
Which to be contrarian I'd argue the vast majority of the perks you listed are good but not nearly as strong. Bbq is just aura reading which you can replace with game sense, same with lethal, blood warden only works well with terminus and even then it's just bad nwo. Devour is a massive gamble and can easily give you no value. Starstruck is practically just a nurse perk.
Meanwhile the perks I mentioned cut gens down, punish the killer for making good plays, extend chases, or cut healing down.
I'd like to point out nearly every good survivor perk just makes them massively efficient with little to no downside. Meanwhile killer is 90% slowdown and 10% conditional slowdown
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Yeah perks that activate by doing great skill checks and getting hit are really darn situational huh.
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I would say addons are not nearly the same as medkits and toolboxes. Most killers don't have addons that strong and if they do they're iri or purple quality. Meanwhile even a brown medkit is literally better self care. And before people start with the but it has limited charges argument you can just slap addons onto it; you're not going to need to heal more than 3 or 4 times in the vast majority of games
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Because survivors don’t have weapons or base kit powers that can kill the killer and end the game in victory.
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That's not really going into the power of survivors' perks as much as it is base mechanics, but I get what you mean. The stuff they allow survivors to do, killer would never get away with anything close.
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For a long while my take was that Killer had more good perks, but surv had a handful that were straight up busted (which is why the surv meta was so stale for so long). But the worst offenders among those have been nerfed, so I am not really seeing any sort of perk disparity at this point.
DH was insane/broken, now it is fine. Lucky Break is good (mostly when used with another perk or two), but certainly not "insane". Hyperfocus and Reassurance can be really strong, situationally. Half the time they're just kind of...there.
Maybe I am missing something, but looking ay surv perks now, I am just not seeing anything OP, and certainly not disproportionately strong relative to what I can run as killer.
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I wouldn't say hyperfocus is situational, you get value out of it every single game, unlike something like reassurance.
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People are complaining about Lucky Break?
Yeah, sure, it's a great perk... the first time you use it every match. And assuming you center your entire build around it.
Honestly, I don't know if there are any OP survivor perks at this point. Maybe Hyperfocus, but that's not easy to pull off. Dead Hard is still annoying sometimes, and I kick myself for not seeing it coming, but, on the other hand, I only don't see it coming because I don't expect every survivor to have it because not every survivor runs it because it's halfway fair now.
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I wouldn't say either dead hard or hyperfocus are hard to pull off. Hyperfocus is just reverse og ruin. Why behavior thinks thats okay who knows. New dead hard basically turns off killers ability to lunge if you have reaction time and now its just third health state the perk
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Exhaustion perks exist because killers are designed to win chases as a) they're faster than survivors b) bloodlust c) they can use powers to end chases quicker. Is it therefore not only fair that survivors receive some strong exhaustion perks to help them counter the aforementioned points? Also, killers have tons of chase/anti-loop perks (Crowd Control, Blood Favour, Bamboozle, Superior Anatomy, etc) and that doesn't even take into consideration individual killers powers and their abilities to quickly close distance (Blight, Nurse, Wesker), and/or shut down loops (Artist, Dredge, Clown, etc). Taking this into consideration, is it really that unfair that survivors have a few perks which give them speed-boosts for chases!?
Again, I'd argue that many of the survivor perks you listed are conditional or situational. Reassurance exists to punish camping whilst Unbreakable punishes slugging. You can consider these tactics 'good plays', but why's it so unfair that survivors have perks which counter these playstyles? Killers have plenty of perks that counter specific survivior play-styles i.e. anti-loop, gen slow down, anti-healing builds, etc. Hyperfocus relies on you consistently being able to hit great skill checks, and Adrenaline is conditional on you making it to the end game. There's a clear counter to COH (snuff the totem which takes like 2 seconds), and regarding BBQ: sure, it's 'just an aura reading perk' but it still remains very popular (still one of the most used killer perks) despite them removing the BP incentive - there's got to be a reason for that, right?
You say that survivors have perks that 'cut gens down' and 'cut healing down', but again, killers have perks that consistently block/regress gens, and make healing slow/inefficient. Not to mention there's countless perks/addons/killer powers which permit insta-downs, which makes healing useless anyway. Equally, there are killers who consistently keep survivors injured anyway and punish them for healing (Plague & Legion).
I understand what you're saying, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Please name a killer perk that turns off all looping unconditionally like reassurance does with not just camping but being near the hook at all. Same with unbreakable. Those perks aren't just anti perks they're hard counter perks and one of them is likely becoming basekit. Killers at best get soft counters to what you're talking about.
Secondly I'd argue exhaustion perks are badly implented. There shouldn't be a perk or set of perks so strong that they're basically base kit. Either just make them a core mechanic or nerf them or even give killers a proper exhaustion perk instead of ones with obscene conditions or minimal duration
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I think if they nerfed Dead Hard to require a .01 second reaction time and protected for half that long people would still call it a 3rd health state and act like it’s always available and effortless to pull off.
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If you've played games where you need quick reaction times you'd know its easy to do it. Why do you think it's still one of the most picked perks?
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You get some Hyperfocus value every game, but you need a few tumblers to fall into place to get the insane value from it.
You need to be able to hit great skill checks consistently and/or run it with Stakeout and hope you get enough time in the killer's terror radius to make that worth it. If you're facing a stealth killer, you're SOL.
I have played a number of matches with the Hyperfocus/Stakeout/Built to Last + toolbox build and just absolutely obliterated multiple gens on my own, but I've also played matches where I only got a little value from Hyperfocus.
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It's one of the most picked perks because some people can actually use it, some use it with the auto DH hack, and some people can't use it, but still can't let it go.
And even then, the pick rate is like half what it was pre-6.1.0
It does now what it always should have. I used to detest it. Loathe it. Spit when I spoke its name. I even refused to run it as a surv, to my own detriment.
I think it's fine now.
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Watch the killer for any cues that they’re about to strike while watching where you’re going, time the ability so the animation finishes when you need it to, and compensate for any lag within a .5 second window? That’s easy?
Lots of offline games need quick (< 1 second) reaction times - there aren’t many online games that do without something like aim assist baked in.
Perk popularity isn’t guaranteed to be correlated to perk strength. Self Care is more used than Dead Hard and I wouldn’t consider it overpowered.
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Not to mention lag/latency. It's not the hardest thing in the world, but it's not idiot proof by any means.
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The entire fighting game genre requires that kind of skill, but okay
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and so have killers? We had ruin, pop, undying, bbq, starstruck, thrilling tremors. The list goes on. Stop acting like killer perks have been doodoo water for years. We've also had strong perks.
6 perks? Right now we got Pain Res, Surge, Eruption, Overcharge, CoB, Devour Hope, Undying, Pentimento, Deadlock, Hex: Plaything, Floods of Rage, STBFL, Starstruck, and more.
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You're not serious right?
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You know what ?
Tonight I have slugging after slugging killers, from the start of the match. Not like endgame, from the start. All solo queue matches tonight were pure humaillation where the killer played like the biggest dick on earth. They slug, leave me on the ground to try to slug the other survivors too, then as soon as I get picked up, they come straight back, down my again, instead of hooking me they leave and let me again lay there on the ground to slug the other survivors .... rinse and repeat. And the same happens with my teammates.
Yeah, I am more than pissed right now and I can´t wait for the ######### unbreakable basekit. Or bots .... kinda don´t want to play against people anymore, this game seems to attract sociopaths or people with other mental issues.
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Ehhh they infrequently add top tier survivor perks this chapter had hyperfocus and reassurance and then the last time a good survivor perk was added was circle of healing
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So 4 survivors running BT means that the unhooked survivor gains 40 seconds of endurance?
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Dead Hard isn't difficult to pull off, but it isn't difficult to counter, either. If you know a survivor has it, you can bait it out, but I don't find myself checking for it before I down someone for the first time in every game the way I used to, just because not everyone runs it, so it sometimes catches me off guard. It doesn't do anything if you bait it out.
I can't pull off Hyperfocus for very long, even with Stake Out. I mean, I have started running them in one of my survivor builds along with Prove Thyself and Fast Track, and it makes a difference, but I can't get more than 6 or 7 stacks on Hyperfocus even starting with full stacks on Stake Out. But I'm not a survivor main.
I do think that Hyperfocus can be OP in the hands of someone who can hit all the skill checks consistently and has a BNP.
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Survivors can die, it's that simple, although I wouldn't agree that survivors get strong perks, up until recently survivors hadn't had a meta perk since Dead Hard, it was like 5 years without a proper new meta perk for survs, and look what happens to any perk remotely strong in ptb, it usually gets nerfed, the only instance this hasn't happened is Hyperfocus which I'm genuinely shocked at.
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this is bait right? Literally every new killer that comes out, comes out with amazing perks while the survivors get memes and garbage with a few gold nuggets every 3 survivors released
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The problem with perks like that is it isn't a survivor issue. It's the fact that Nurse's presence means perks can't be too crazy. Literally look at Awakened Awareness or Floods of Rage. So it doesn't make sense to make it a survivor problem when it's literally a Nurse issue
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1. You seem to ignore why these perks are hard counters to something and why 1 of them right now exists as a base kit perk. Let me ask you a question. Why is it fair for a killer to immediately down someone who got unhooked recently pre perk changes. Survivor perks already got changed to help in that regard (DS, OTR turn off, etc.) Like instead of getting mad at the perks countering something, maybe wonder why the perks need to exist in general.
2. Most of the exhaustion perks are situational at best and aren't even as strong as you make them out to be. Balanced is map dependant, Adrenaline is conditional of the game, Head on Sucks, Overcome gets countered by exposed set ups, Smash Hit is a gamble to pull off, and Dead Hard is mostly prevalent cause auto dh scripts. You can't call something poor designed if most of the stuff isn't even as strong as you exaggerate them
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Basekit UB is only because the new Mori system allows killers to end the game with potentially little to no hooks. If survivors had no means to pick themselves up, then why bother hooking when slugging could potentially get the job done quicker? It would change gameplay for the worse. Everyone would just be picking each other up instead of doing gens, downed survivors would be camped instead of hooked ones. It'd turn to rubbish.
And in regards to perks, I think killers have a great variety. As a solo survivor I really only can pick from a small handful since they are pretty necessary for me to actually survive.
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Uh, they don't. And you can't really compare both sides like that, as the two roles operate very differently.
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