http://dbd.game/killswitch
So are Twins just bad now?
I am aware that twins are not the most popular killer, but are the devs planning on leaving them behind with this?
I'm hoping that some sort of small rework is on the way, though that is just hope based on nothing.
Comments
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I do hope they get reworked.
They've been an absolute failure since they released, on par with Legion.
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The upcoming changes with survivors picking themselves up that is.
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First world problems 🤨
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They 100% did not think this through. Killers like Twins who need to slug will be dead after this.
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The one she would have exposed is where the kangaroo sack is, so I don't know what you're talking about.
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Good.
Killers whose power centers around hoping Survivors are Solo's should be reworked and given better powers.
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Ik you already said it, but they weren't good to begin with anyways, I haven't seen a twin since... maybe 8, 9 months ago? Or just too long to remember
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so less variety of gameplay with less strategies to use... this is what they are currently doing right now: erasing the best strategies that killers have...
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You're describing 90% of the killer cast.
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Twins get absolutely massacred by competent teams with UB and comms. However, they are incredibly oppressive against players that do not have X perk and that cannot communicate.
Pinhead gets destroyed by teams with comms. However, he dominates versus teams that have no way to communicate.
This is the sign of a poorly designed power. They should be given an update so that they are more effective versus teams and less effective versus Solo players.
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Yes, but Twins and Pinhead come to mind when thinking about Killers who have a strange dichotomy.
They are entirely too strong versus non-SWF's, but entirely too weak versus them.
Most other Killers are okay versus Solo's but bad versus SWF's.
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fact is that this is impossible to achieve sadly... due to the nature of SWF, solo will be always worse than people who play in a SWF (considering survivors with the same skill the difference is even more noticeable)
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Maybe, but there are things that can be done to close the gap.
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And they have also done this to Survivors:
- Changed iri syringe to 16 second heal and no longer instant.
- Nerfed toolboxes so that you only get 2-3 hooks to sabo each match.
- Sabo hooks take less time to respawn so less pressure on Killer from sabo hooks.
- Nerf second chance perks DS & DH.
- Nerf DS and OTR so they don’t work in EndgamE
- Nerf Hatch/Key to pretty much useless and entirely situational aspect of the game.
If you didn’t complain or see the problem with changing any of these on the survivor side you can’t say too much about slugging being nerfed. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Killers will have to adjust.
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this is pure BS:
1 they were changed because they were literally broken and unfair to go aganist, now this addon is still very powerful, but at least now you have a short window of time to counter it (add the fact that maps now are extremely safe and it's a joke to keep busy a killer for 16 seconds... only exception is a tournament nurse)
2 you have also perks for sabo hooks, not only toolboxes, but anyway, you can still sabo the hook, denying a hook for the killer and a free escape thanks to that (you can even sabo from all the directions instead of being forced to sabo in front of the hook, while killers must hook in a single direction)
3 pressure is done by doing gens, not sabo hooks without a valid reason (aka while the killer is going to hook someone in your direction, hence why that point is moot... or to be precise it's extremely situational)
4 nerfs MORE THAN DESERVED i might add (at least one of them, the other is still busted due to auto dead hard users, making it even more powerful than the previous version)... on the bright side now you have BASEKIT BT with an addicional effect (10% haste, making a survivor fast like a ranged killer) and a BT that will last for 80 seconds... so you actually have even more tools to bodyblock the killer (btw if you are unhooked and do this you DESERVE to being tunneled imo)
5 those perks were made for avoiding tunneling, not to grant you an easy win without efforts... tell me, what could do a killer in the endgame to counter those perks? that's right, you can't and i'll tell you more: those perks would be probably abused even to bodyblock the killer on purpose for denying a possible hook from another survivor...
6 because for you it was fair that a killer played without tunneling and camping and survivors rushing gens finished to 3 gen zone themself with only a death in their team, and escape by pressing a simple button, requiring no skill at all, denying all the efforts that killer made to protect the last 3 gen... keys were rightfully changed for a reason, just like moris they were a shortcut to end the game prematurely just by pressing a button...
imo killers were the ones that adapted all the time while survivors were complaining for literally everything... it's sufficient seeing the end chat after a game regarding the mindset of the people...
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I'm hoping part of why the changes are delayed are so the twins can get something, hopefully the rework
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As hopeful as I want to be, it's safe to say that the Devs REALLY don't give a flying F about Twins at this point.
I'll probably be the only Twins player you'll see from XBOX.
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Im not going back and forth on what changes you think are fair. The point is all of those changes have impacted how Survivors are able to play the game and ultimately impact escape chances. There is nothing worse then playing a game a certain way then having to change how you’d handle a situation because the item/perk/add-on no longer works the way it has been for years. Survivors have had a lot of major changes to tactics over the last 3 years and if you didn’t cry about BHVR’s interference then I could care less about crying over a Killer tactic being nerfed. Learn to adapt, get good, or find some other game to play.
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Twins have the lowest pickrate in the game anyway.
Twins, Hag and Freddy are the bottom 3 killers in pickrates, so how about doing things for them?
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Buff Twins
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You forgot trickster
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YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE GAMEPLAY/STRATEGIES CHANGED, you can still do every kind of play that you could do before (except permasabo hooks), quite the contrary killers had to change their gameplay after each patch... if you can't win actually as survivor in this current state of the game i guess that's a skill issue from your side, since you want to put it on a personal skill level... said this, after that patch you'll see the survivor's queue time DRASTICALLY increased, and with it also the camping and tunneling present in the game... after all you deserve what you are asking...
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Twin gameplay
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I’m thinking Victor can either stand guard on the body, freezing the mend timer or (and this one would be delightful) let him drag the body by a leg and toss them onto a hook himself.
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Twins has never been a bad killer. In fact, Twins has always been considered a top 5 killer by comp players. The next update is likely not going to change much things about them besides making them slightly less slug-leaning.
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Only unbreakable will be a huge problem, they will be still fine if you're not a very slug-oriented player. Most likely next PTB we will see a twins rework anyway
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Thing is - all of these things were done to improve balance. Every single thing on that list was broken.
Twins literally not being able to reach someone before they pick themselves up is not improving balance.
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Yeah, unfortunately. Say you're playing Twins on Mother's Dwelling and you down someone as Victor on the opposite side of the map, they're most likely to be able to get themselves up before you're able to hook them (especially if Unbreakable/Exponential are in play).
It's a shame because their aesthetic and lore are one of my favorites in the whole game. They deserve some much-needed love and a BIG buff.
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Twins are weaker than most killers. Bring twins to nurse level and see the increase in users.
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Twins are almost never played. Guess why. She is weak and easy to beat.
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The Unbreakable combo could hurt Twins maybe, but the basekit 45 seconds probably won’t. Note that currently it takes 30 seconds for a dying survivor to get their recovery bar one tap from full, while the new system it takes 45 seconds to self revive. So in fact without Unbreakable Charlotte will have more time, not less, to go pick someone up that Victor downs.
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Whos they are?
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It was announced awhile ago that twins were due for a rework. And since this latest update isnt going live for a long time (I read no earlier than March 2023? Not sure if that's rumour or confirmed) then plenty can change between now and then
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All of those changes def impacted survivor tactics to Survive. They affected the ability to be more aggressive during matches and attempt to bait Killer away from the one survivor they are tunneling. They impacted chase, distance gained/earned, times spent in chase, etc. The nerfs to DS and OTR can carry Killer to an easy victory in End Game on the 1v1 playing field (talk about not earning something in a game). Those changes impacted the ability to get a camped hook rescues during the End Game or any other time when a save would be clutch. Those changes def took pressure off the Killer in knowing well if I tunnel Survivors not having xyz ability probability won’t or can’t be used but if it is it won’t have much impact on me getting this survivor again. Trust me all of those changes impacted how survivors played in terms of running the Killer in chase, prioritizing time spent on gen vs healing vs taking aggro vs cleaning totems which can impact the game for Survivors.
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Balance for whom and where???? Those changes shifted the kill rate significantly imo to Killer favor. And aint no way a game made where a Killer can phase across a map and knock you down is balance ever claimed to be considered top priority. It’s a 4v1 game so there is no balance, the scales tip slowly as the game progresses with Killers killing. Balance is never considered in when the game is evaluated on a 1v1 scale for this game (which for me is a huge issue). BHVR’s problem is they release new Killer/Survivor perk, a small subset of the player population learns to effectively play against a perk by whatever means are available in the game. BHVR considers either the new perk unbalanced or the playable counter created by the gaming population unbalanced bc of complaints of immeasurable things like toxicity, not being fair, etc BHVR makes a nerf or a buff of either the new perk or the counter and then it’s wash, rinse, and repeat. That’s what’s wrong with the game. For every example of a perk/item/add-on claiming to be unbalanced I bet there is gameplay of it being utilized appropriately against an inferior opponent who then complains and moans about resources being used effectively and them not being able to think of their own counter to gameplay. This whole scenario is effectively ruining the game across the board.
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I'd probably say they drop pretty solidly to mid-low B (previously high B) and the skill floor to play them becomes even higher than it already is. The skill floor and patience to play them is already pretty high compared to most killers and is my personal theory why they aren't played or are thought of as weak.
There is some good stuff for Twins with basekit unbreakable if there are no changes to Twins at all. This also assumes they get rid of the absolutely broken change to unbreakable that allows you to pick yourself up in ~23 seconds. If that stays, I think Twins in its current form would be dead. I'm just going to assume it's 45 seconds minimum to pick up and the only way to affect it is Boon: Exponential or through changes to heal speed.
- The extra time to recover (assuming that's what happens) benefits Twins because it means that other teammates picking you up takes longer. This may even make it easier to get hooks with Charlotte as it will be harder for a teammate to pick you up before Twins even walks over.
- If survivors play risky and stay injured, Twins is one of the killers who would be able to get the 4 person down and just end the match immediately.
I think that's about it though. If you can't get the 4 person down, you'll struggle. And the existing perks and counters for Twins will still work. Run very far away from Charlotte. Hop in lockers if you're far away from Charlotte. Hop in lockers if you're the 3rd/4th person to go down to buy time for UB. Rather than rush to pick up your teammate, just stay on the generator. Stay with your teammate and heal often.
This all assumes the extra time to recover and UB doesn't let you pick yourself up in ~23 seconds. If those two aren't true, then Twins will drop further.
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Gonna hard disagree with this. Twins are definitely not weak, but they also play the micro/macro game different from every other killer and her skill floor is definitely not low because of this.
For most other killers, the general gameplay loop is find survivor, chase survivor, down survivor, hook survivor and repeat. Maybe you slug somewhere in there if there's some altruism involved (like pallet save, sabo, etc) or you drop chase if you're being taken to a strong place away from generators, but the overall gameplay loop is the same for the entire killer cast. There's small differences, but killers from Trapper to Nurse all follow that loop.
Twins does not. Twins has some of the strongest chase/slug potential in the game. If you are being chased by Victor, you are going to get hit. Maybe not on Nurse level, but pretty damn close compared to most of the other killers in the game. If you're healthy, not the biggest deal. If you are injured, you are going to go down. At the same time, Twins has some of the worst time efficiency for hooking in the game when they use Victor. So if you're using Victor, you're find, chase, and down parts of the loop are some of the strongest in the game and your hook game is some of the weakest to the point where it'll lose you games trying to go for a hook.
Charlotte, on the other hand, has bad chase potential but has the same ability to hook survivors as any other killer in the game. And Victor isn't always available especially if you had to use Victor to get the initial hit. Maybe a bit similar to Oni where you're very disincentivized to use your power to get a hit (Oni can't, Twins is just disincentivized) and so the best survivors will just play safe to force Victor to be used. And if you injure with Victor and chase with Charlotte, you're mostly wasting your time and playing a worse Trapper.
When playing against Twins, the counterplay is also the opposite of most killers. Against every other killer, split up except when unhooking/healing. For Twins, group up into teams of two with one unhealthy and one healthy survivor at all times. That makes them a solo queue nightmare.
If you are playing as Twins and don't lean into their strengths and try to go for a hook after every down, then you'll lose and they'll seem very weak. This is all because they have such a hard time hooking after the down. As a Twins player, Victor should always be harassing someone. If you get a down with Victor, you need to run him over to a nearby generator or some key location so he can harass someone while you go for the hook. If you don't do that, you'll definitely lose every time against even the worst survivors. If you injure a survivor with Victor, it's commonly better to not chase after the survivor you just hit. You probably won't catch them due to Charlotte's terrible ability to chase and the other 3 survivors aren't being harassed. Victor just really doesn't help Charlotte in chase and, by the time you can start the chase, a good survivor will already be in a strong tile.
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Twins will be unplayable if this proposed basekit Unbreakable goes through. I cannot believe they actually think it’s a good idea, along with all the other killers it will hurt. It totally changes the dynamic of the game, and not in a good way. I thought for sure we would see basekit Camaraderie or Reassurance before we saw basekit Unbreakable become a thing. Devs, please reconsider.
Signed, a survivor main.
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My only thoughts is that with this slug rework the twins rework is also gonna come with the base kit unbreakable. Also the 100% they propose for unbreakable post change should ABSOLUTELY not make it to live. 22.5 seconds before you can pick yourself up... thats the same as old unbreakable but better because you can use every time you get slugged compared to just once.
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IDV has a killer with 5 separate units you can control almost simultaneously If you want them to move and you want to move your main body just hold forward whilst walking. They will march forward and attack anything in their way. Perhaps you can do something similar with the twins make it feel like there are two killers roaming the trial. I think it would play great into the power fantasy that the twins bring. You can also let Viktor do more in the game perhaps?
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no they aren't bad they're going to be absolutely pointless. the only reason why you would play twins over another killer with a chase power is to spread the injuries and apply strategies with victor. if you cant slug anymore, what's the point?
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