Bhvr should not be getting rid of strategies.
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The problem with this is that many killers would end up leaving because the Devs take too long to do anything.
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Just adapt
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It's just like survs were all supposedly going to run out and buy Rebecca just to run Reassurance. Its a really poor argument. Perk slots are a limited resource in which survivors already have multiple staples in contention that they feel they need to run to have a chance. Even before 6.1.0. it was uncommon for me to see Unbreakable. Even then, it was usually run with specific support perks in mind to make it better like the BO/UB/DS.
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Honestly this sums it up imo
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I mean ya I think the more hours the more you understand the development of this game.
Anyway so I see you are against all these strats in the game even slugging. Would you say slugging is unfair? This game is already kinda stale. Getting rid of even more strats? Many killers rely on specific strats, many perks, and many people's prefered style of gameplay rely on this too and getting rid of this would just be like getting rid of an objective. You say getting rid of it would open up space for new objectives but wouldn't it cancel out because these strats are an objective in the game.
Overall I like your take and respect your opinion I just don't agree with it
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I honestly do think slugging is a strategy, but the problem is that someone will literally slug everyone on first gen and just let us all bleed out without even trying for the hook. Like bruh . I also think if you try to save stupidly then you should be able to be downed. But I think if say, the 3rd or 4th person is slugged, two of those people should be allowed to get up or something.
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Pepperidge Farm Remembers …
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No.
A chase is either an opportunity for the team to rush generators, or for the killer to cut the generator repair time.
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"someone will literally slug everyone on first gen and just let us all bleed out without even trying for the hook"
When? When are people doing this?
In all my time playing survivor I've had this happen exactly ONCE by a Nurse.
Killers want to end the game as much as you do. Who the hell wants to hang around doing nothing for 4 minutes?
Slugging is used for a hell of a lot of reasons in a ton of different, valid scenarios, and the only thing anyone is talking about is this "bleeding everyone put at 5 gens" nightmare scenario.
It's the definition of confirmation bias. You can't stop thinking about that one time you had to wait 4 minutes, and conveniently forget the hundreds of times you've been on the ground in various other contexts, because they didn't have such a detrimental effect on you.
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Slugging is a crutch?
Twins would like a word, please. Slugging is not only inevitable but it's impossible for Twins to avoid unless they never use their power - and with 22s slugs due to unlimited 100% Unbreakable? Congrats, BHVR have successfully destroyed a killer.
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Notice that while everything you mention is indeed valid, there are literally no positives about the mori change and if there are they are vastly outweighed by the issues it will create. It's a bad change regardless.
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Knockout exists though...
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How does slugging and letting people wait on the ground keep gamers involved?
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Overpowered strategies need to be dealt with, BHVR is simply not addressing them fast enough. It took way too long to address slugging. One of the last matches I played was a Blight all he did was slug everyone. It's not fun.
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Not being fun dosnt mean it's overpowered. Slugging for the most part just makes the game longer and usually just dosnt work. Slugging for the 4k is a good strat, Slugging with 3 or 4 survivors left will mostly nonpay off. If you are able to down 3 or 4 survivors that requires some skill and it should be rewarded, not taken away but bk unbreakable
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If it was a weak strategy so many wouldn't do it. A blight traveling across the map putting everyone on the floor just seems a little too easy for one player.
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That just don't happen that often. I mean be honest. How many times have you and all 3 teammates been downed at the same time and ended up all dieing because of that. Not very often. It's just very notable when it does happen once in 60 games so people make a big deal out of it
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yeah many aren't doing slugfest, what are you even talking about lol
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Hell, not just twins. Myers, Oni, and Plague all need to slug or their power gets wasted. With slugging being encouraged on certain killers and perks being built around slugging like deerstalker it feels so weird to see these changes.
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So gen rushing with things like hyperfocus, BNP and prove thyself should be nerfed as well, right?
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Not sure why you're surprised that Twins are getting worse and worse, they are a killer that have needed a rework the longest, lol, they were dead before this change too, please.
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I think there really is a flaw in your thinking, about why this strategies might form.
Many killers will tell you way play to win, and winning is a 4k, thats why many slug for that 4k, and why they hate the hatch.
Those killers might appy this strategies, because otherwise, they dont get that 4k, and they say they are pressured into using them, because the game is stacked against them.
Lets say we were to rework maps again, reduce pallets and everything. What do you think the endresult would be? Killer would be ok with just getting a 2k for a balanced game? Or would they still want that 4k?
Because then, there are just 2 possibilitys:
a) even after a rework, killer still cant get a 4k without those strategies, so they use them again.
b) they get those 4k without it, which mean it is balanced around killers getting a 4k (remember, whenever it seems to be only a 2 or 3k, they still can resort to camping and tunneling).
It all comes down to what killers and survivors think a balanced game is.
I play both sides, and i think a balanced game is a 2k. less than that is a win to survivors, more than that is a win for killer.
But even devs think different, because a 53% kill rate wasn´t enough.
But we know killers are not satisfied with a 3k, thats why they slug for a 4k.
In short, the reason why this strategies are employed is to get that 4k, and no balance change will change that, unless the 4k is easy enough to get to not need them.
And yes, that is truly what i belive.
(to be fair, i play both sides, and even i am not satisfied with a 2k).
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You can only have a [xK/yE] breakdown use a lowest common denominator of 25%, as there are 4 survivors in every match. This is why 2K/2E is their target. Realistically you want there to be more 4K's than 4E's though, since 4E's are an outcome that involves the least potential interaction between the two sides. This is why they want more than 50% kill rate, but not enough for it to round up up 75% with the aforementioned LCD. Since the number is also going to vary due to how killers are balanced (as well as MMR differences and other relevant factors) you will end up with a spread instead of a direct number for your kill rate, which is why their target is in the high 50's to mid 60's, mostly depending on what distribution gives them their average within said range (which they have stated is about 12%..)
50% is not, and should never be the goal because of the way that the game is designed. It's not only not balanced enough for that, but it gives equal weight to low-interaction outcomes as it does to high interaction ones, in a game where one side has a disproportionate objective.
I haven't even said anything about slugging for 4Ks, but they actually tie in even further due to the hatch. Its a mechanic that exists to rob the killer of the 4th kill and allow a losing survivor a chance to call it a draw instead. That itself throws the above math off even further, which means that rightful 4K's can become 3K's which weighs down their average again, and further contributes to the (between 2K and 3K) number that the devs are striving for to offset it. Aside from that I don't really understand why it was brought up against the post you quoted, since I think that slugging for the 4K and other similar situations are caused by how people react to the game situation (including not even acknowledging it and not caring about hatch escapes,) just like survivors who give up and abandon their team to pray they get the hatch instead (who can likewise keep trying despite being one of the last two.) Its also why winning for killer is a 3-4K and not just a 4K.
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So you agree that slugging is not a crutch for Twins but a necessity.
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Man, you and I have NOT had the same game play. I have had several people do this to me. It's not always at 0 gens, sometimes it happens after only 1 is done. It does tend to be Nurses, but I've had other killers do it to. And that's exactly what I'm saying, I don't understand why a killer basically just wants to slug and stare at us for however long it takes to bleed out lol. XD
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While I disagree, I do understand your argument regarding slugging. I also personally do not understand why that is getting addressed of all things in DBD.
But camping and tunneling? It should be clear just how disliked this strategy is by almost all survivor players, and how unfun it is to go against. It is extremely unhealthy gameplay for DBD.
And you talk about the game getting less skillful. What exactly does camping in particular have anything to do with skill? Ypu just stand in front of the hooked survivor and try to get hook grabs. Any nerf to camping just makes the game more skillful, albeit on the killer's side. But that is fine, considering all the buffs killers received in the last midchapter update.
Tunneling takes more skill, but still not nearly as much as playing killer normally. It is still a pretty ridiculous tactic in the game.
It's clear that there has been a shortage of survivor players ever since 6.1.0 has dropped when looking at queue times, and that most likely won't end until survivors receive some more deserved buffs against camping and tunneling. When it comes to tunneling, maybe just reverting the DS nerf would be enough for the moment, but camping still needs some proper, basekit nerfs, especially since it got buffed in the 6.1.0 update.
DBD could be in the best state it's ever been, but survivors need a bit more before that is actually the case, in my opinion.
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I don’t think the basekit UB was a response to routine slugging either. They just knew they had to do something prevent quick death games with the new mori system.
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