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Will grabs ever be fixed?
Wild how grabs have been broken for literal years now. You'd think they could at least apply a mini expose status when you get refunded, but instead killers have to get compromises even on mechanics that are broken
Comments
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The game would be better if all grabs were removed.
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The fix was that it should have an attack properly follow through if a grab is denied. The issue is that this still doesn't work properly, and hits can just not connect due to the amount of time required in reconciling the rollback. They need to change it so that if a grab gets rolled back, it counts as a hit was registered, instead of having it go for a "second chance" hit afterwards.
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Hook grabs are also broken, either needs to be quicker for the survivor to unhook someone or hook grabs removed altogether to help punish camping.
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Thats part of my point. Grabs are instant down, why are killers being met halfways for the games bugs? At this point just remove grabs and give them like .5 seconds of exposed instead
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Server issues, Lag, Coding issues
All lead to a point that grabs aren't being looked at seriously
Also... @Steel_Eyed What makes you say that?
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Then every killer gets a lagswitch to use for short intervals to guarantee instadowns? nah. Grab interactions like vaulting already require the survivor to be injured in the first place, and stuff like gen grabs are usually extremely unrealistic in normal play. Better to not open another avenue for exploitation for minimal reason.
Edit: Grabs should definitely be fixed, but not buffed. I do agree that there should be changes to things like hook grab standoffs, if that is part of the consideration here, but not necessarily just making the survivor exposed and instadowned for it.
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I definitely disagree, grabs add a lot to the game in terms of jump scares for survivors, at least when it comes to gen and totem grabs. Hook grabs do lead to silly standoffs though since the survivor sees the killer and knows they are waiting for a grab attempt.
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I really just want hook grabs to be a thing of the past.
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I'm not sure there is an easy fix to grabs since it's depending purely on latency. The mechanic itself works quite well. It would definitely be nice to not see the killer grabbing someone from a hook only for the survivor to still get the rescue though. I mean, did the killer seriously yank that survivor so hard that they grabbed onto their teammate on the hook and they got ripped right off? I'd immagine that would at least justify a permanent broken status effect.
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They 100% need to be removed. It's an outdated mechanic that in 99% of situations is used by campers.
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How is it a buff to fix them to do what they're supposed to do in the first place? Also if we're designing with the idea people will cheat then nothing in the game should exist.
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Pretty one sided take, since removing them entirely means that survivors can divebomb the hook without risk or penalty. What happens when survivors lead chases directly to the hook while healthy? They just get a free save for basically sandbagging their entire team? Its a necessary evil until they come up with better means to address the situation uniformly.
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I mean survivors with reassurance can practically dive bomb and loop around their teammate with no penalty
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Once per hook state, which is exactly why that stipulation was added. I've even gone over the exact considerations of that scenario paired with the basekit UB in another topic, both how it works and how much worse it would have been without said stipulation. Its still bad, but again, they need to rework the entire standoff itself at this point rather than picking and choosing grievances to address specifically.
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I like grabs I just can't stand that sound when it happens from survivors end.
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It’s a killer issue so it won’t get fixed (see also: silent slug bug, auto-aim causing missed hits)
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Not really one sided in my opinion. I believe a lot of killer players agree, and I am a killer main myself.
Survivors wouldn't be able to dive bomb without punsishment? Removing hook grabs doesn't cause killers to cease existing. They can just down the unhooked with two hits. And if you are already in a chase with a survivor running to the hooked survivor, in most cases you already injure the survivor on their way to the hooked survivor.
The only killers that couldn't punish survivors anymore for hook diving are killers that simply aren't good at the game. In 99% of cases where hook grabs are used, they are used by camping killers.
And it sure as hell isn't a necessary evil anymore. Killers already received a bunch of buffs, now it's the survivors time for that. Killers will still be strong without hook grabs.
Unless of course we want to keep holding on to the longer killer queue times.
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Hook grabs, for sure.
But gen/totem/vault grabs are fun and fair, imo.
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My statement was that you were literally only considering the issues of one side and not the other. You're not even acknowledging the difference between a hook trade and grabbing someone before they can get the unhook in your reasoning, and trying to brush off a legitimate concern with skill issue posturing. Thats not how you fix issues that cause problems for both sides.
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Hook grabs should interact like vault grabs.
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There is a difference, surely, but killers do not need the ability to grab survivors off of hooks, to have two survivors downed at once. That little amount of skill should not be awarded like that.
Killers received a bunch of buffs, that already made them clearly stronger. They now need these kind of nerfs for survivors experience to become fairer again. And again, it's because this change would mainly only hurt camping killers, those very few other instances just don't hold enough wait against that.
It's not a one sided view at all if you also consider all the buffs killers received. This is how the game will continually become better for both sides. Killers received a bunch of buffs, now it's time for survivors to get some help as well, especially against the crappy strategies like camping and tunneling. And if there are those very rare other instances that would also get nerfed by that, then that's simply a necessary evil.
And if, at some point, survivors have received too many improvements, and killer becomes too hard, the devs then can look into buffing killers again, but in much more healthy ways. Map balance improvements immediately comes to mind. I would love this game to get into a state where we could see better map balancing, but the game surely isn't in that state at the moment.
Or we can just not give survivors any other buffs anymore, but that clearly isn't doing the game any favor. Again, killer queue times are clealry longer for good reasons.
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You're again focusing on projecting it to be a skill issue when my point was only warning about how it can and is used to force a lose/lose scenario. You're then going on a ton of unrelated tangents from that point, using plenty of loaded language to try to minimize anyone who disagrees with your statements. I've already stated that the entire situation needs to be reworked, and that you're just trading one aspect of it for another by removing the mechanic without even considering why its there in the first place.
If you want to fix things, fix them right. Otherwise you end up like bhvr and keep introducing new problems alongside your fixes.
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Hook grabs must go! It makes no sense to play that stupid minigame of "Who makes a mistake first!"
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Dude at this point it's hard to even understand what you want. Loaded language to try and minimize anyone who disagrees with me? Whut? And unrelated tangents from that point? Nothing I have said is in any way unrelated. You said removing hook grabs would hurt killers too much, because they wouldn't have a way to punish hook diving. I then explained to you why I do not think that's the case. Those aren't unrelated tangents, those are the reasons I believe that removing hook grabs will not be unfair for killers in any way or form, and are indeed needed. But please, tell me what exactly of what I wrote is unrelated to the discussed subject?
Killers have received a bunch of buffs, and killers can still down the survivor going for the unhook. Which I think is more than sufficient enough. I do not think that removing hook grabs would introduce new problems, because I believe killers would still be completely fine without hook grabs. Getting a hook grab right now puts survivors into a really bad situation, just because of one move. That to me is ridiculous.
I also explained that I am positive hook grabs are only used by campers in 99% of situations, and the few other situations, where hook grabs are not used for camping, just aren't worth considering when it comes to a change like this, because nerfing camping is extremely important, especially when looking at current queue times. And again, especially with killers having received a bunch of buffs, I do not think a nerf would cause any problems, even to non camping killers.
Just out of curiosity, how would you fix this problem? In a way where camping is clearly nerfed like it would be by removing hook grabs?
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"Any nerf to camping killers is a good nerf"
Einstein
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Exactly that. Hook grabs are no different than hatch standoffs in the past, It's plain stupid and ping reliant in many times.
It can easily be countered ONLY with SWF who can block the prompt, way harder to pull off as soloQ.
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"Killers received a bunch of buffs, that already made them clearly stronger.", "That little amount of skill should not be awarded like that.", "Or we can just not give survivors any other buffs anymore," and so on. You're making arguments against things I have not even mentioned, arguing with what you perceive must be things I also agree with. You even keep bringing up "killer buffs" which are not related to this specific issue, regardless of their impact or value. I havent argued any of those things, nor have I implied that the issues survivors have with the situation are solely skill based or any other form of dismissing them. I'm saying that you're ignoring WHY hook grabs are in the game in the first place, to make it so that trying to unhook someone directly in front of the killer is supposed to be an extremely risky play. The situation isn't perfect and I haven't even remotely implied it is, just that you're completely ignoring that aspect of why it happens, as well as focusing on how killers can exploit it while ignoring how survivors can. It needs a fix that addresses the issues on both sides because the issue is "what happens when a survivor tries to unhook in front of the killer" just as much as "what happens when a killer stays in front of the hook." Either side can fire off dismissals based on introducing additional factors because of how bad the game direction is, but you don't keep introducing lopsided changes hoping that they'll eventually even out. This game is balanced like a damn jenga tower as it is.
For the record, statements like "I also explained that I am positive hook grabs are only used by campers in 99% of situations" are why you're not allowing yourself to understand any other perspectives. You're using your own anecdotes to try to override the experiences of others, then going on to skew everything else based on preconceptions like that.
If you honestly want a solution from me, an on the spot idea would be to punish either side for making bad plays in this situation, but rewarding good plays. Make it so that if a survivor brings a chase to the hook, they get exposed for a duration and the unhooked survivor does not get their free BT. On the inverse, if the killer stays within the hook distance for an extended period of time after it starts giving the proximity penalty (maybe 15 seconds to start, bringing the total to 30 seconds IIRC) Then the opposite happens, and the killer is unable to grab and all BT/endurance effects work as normal, with a two hit during unhooking resulting in the second hit giving the endurance effect.
Even then, that would have to be part of bigger sweeping changes to encouraging leaving the hook and other considerations for "accidental" cases, like if the killer never gets to leave the hook realistically in that time, or survivors who don't lead the killer to the hook but lead them to someone else going for the save and the killer detaching, but its the start of a solution that resolves issues both sides face instead of prioritizing one over the other. Its also the idea of the solution much more than the details, I came up with all of that on the spot so surely there are factors that it is not accounting for, but thats also my point: A lot of these types of ideas like getting rid of hook grabs aren't inherently bad, they just need to account for more details before they are in any state to be attempted in the game's existing balance.
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Sadly they can't remove it because it's already bad enough with survivors doing unsafe hook rescues in the killers face that is to BT basekit that would only make it worse.
Besides unhooks are not supposed to be a guarantee when the Killer is there camping or not....I had times lately I hook a survivor and I didn't even turn around yet and they already went for the rescue....if I could grab to stop the unhooking I would but with the grabs being broken like this all I did was hit them and during the wipe down they ran off
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