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Sweaty teams and generator speeds
There's more and more sweaty teams. With alot of good perks and favoured maps that make it very difficult for the killer to do anything. Since the 6.1.0 patch, proves became much more frequent, and with the most recent update. Project W Chapter release. The game has one new perk. Hyperfocus. That has now been combined with Stake Out. With toolboxes as well. All this makes generators go flying, and if you are facing good survs you pretty much have no chance. Anyone else feels that killer is getting tiring and more tiring to play due to all the teams and perks combinations? Should this be changed or should this remain? Curious to see what the killer mains think about this. Cause for me, my killer matches have been much more harder and quicker as well.
Comments
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The devs only pretend to care about killer players at a superficial level. It's all about making sure baby survivors can escape at a routine level so they buy Feng skins. They add 10 seconds to gen speed then add a gen rush perk so you can solo a gen easily in 46 to 50 seconds. Basekit unbreakable now that's a huge buff to SWF. Basekit DS on each hook state next while killers get .2 second faster pickup speed lol. Calling it
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Yup. This makes me think devs are surv mains. They did one killer sided patch. And immediately reverted it.
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It was to be expected
With the shift which gave a clear advantage to the killers, with the death of many meta skills to the survivors... Well, all those who played quiet, more chill, left, because to win, they are forced to be in sweaty mode. ..
You can't say that by playing survivor now, in a casual way, you can win easily
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Very true unfortunately.
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In reality, the loop starts again, if you are in a very good team (SWF), yes, inevitably, you will have very hard time as a Killer, but all the solo Qs or those who are just there in "I have a little time to play, I'm going to have fun with my friends "... They will increasingly flee the game
Even if... With the last survivor perks of RE and what will happen for the anti slugging, we can imagine that some will come back
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And then Survivors still Complaints about Killer just playing ehit Gen Regression Perks 🤷♀️
Toolboxes needs a nerf same goes for Hyperfokus or Prove
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In reality, the loop starts again, if you are in a very good team (SWF), yes, inevitably, you will have a very hard time as a Killer, but all the solo Qs or those who are just there in "I have a little time to play, I'm going to have fun with my friends "... They will increasingly flee the game
Even if... With the last survivor perks of RE and what will happen for the anti slugging, we can imagine that some will come back
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In reality, the loop starts again, if you are in a very good team (SWF), yes, inevitably, you will have a very hard time as a Killer, but all the solo Qs or those who are just there in "I have a little time to play, I'm going to have fun with my friends "... They will increasingly flee the game
Even if... With the last survivor perks of RE and what will happen for the anti slugging, we can imagine that some will come back
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I have multiple issues with gen speed at the moment. A few reasons why:
1.) Gen times are wildly inconsistent. I understand having things to make a gen go faster, especially if there is a cost or it requires multiple people, but the difference between sped-up times and normal times makes them impossible to predict. You go into one game and 3 gens fly in the first 2 or so minutes. Then you go into another game, and it takes them 4 minutes to complete 2 gens. On the killer side, it can make the speed of the game feel wildly out of your control, left largely up to what the survivors decide to bring. It would be nice if numbers across the board on gen speed increases and gen regressions were toned down to be more consistent.
2.) Prove Thyself & Stake Out / Hyperfocus. I have no issue with these perks being in the game, but I feel that the increases to speed are too large. Maybe others disagree, but these perks have made a significant difference on how fast gens fly, even without toolboxes. Worse, you the killer have no clue that they have these perks until it is too late. Again, maybe just tone these perks down a bit, especially with stake out almost nullifying the risk of hyperfocus.
3.) Regression perks aren't nearly as easy, reliable, or effective as gen speed increases. Toolboxes only require you to bring them. Prove Thyself only requires another teammate. Hyperfocus is made much easier to use with stake out. Meanwhile, every regression perk either requires you to hook someone, kick a generator (which most killers still don't have the time for), or they get disabled automatically. Overcharge and CoB's regression can still be nullified by touching the gen, which I've seen done even mid-chase. Pop is still decent, but it doesn't do as much as it used to for the same time cost of hooking and kicking. Ruin is so useless it gets beat out by Deadlock. Pain res is still decent, but you have to hook someone, hope you have a scourge hook nearby in a decent place, and even then, you don't know which gen was hit.
A lot of people will probably call me entitled, but these are the issues as I see them. Yes, I am grateful that DH was nerfed into the ground. Yes, I am happy for the basekit changes overall. No, I don't think they solved everything, especially with the changes to gen regression perks and the introduction of hyperfocus / stake out.
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No, they're not survivor mains. It just seems that way because of how they balance, which is for the casual gamer. This game is not for someone that wants the ultimate PvP experience. People that play this game are 30, 40, 50 year old uncles and grandmas that want to be their icon, Freddy or Myers, or want to have fun in a SWF and be ok at it. The devs take all skill levels into consideration and try to balance the game so this can happen. Of course you have people that take the game seriously, but it doesn't take long to figure out that this game is broken for any type of serious play unless you make up your own rules in a private scrim.
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Some say the increased usage of Prove skyrocketed because it's the only survivor perk still giving BP faster.
But I think it's because Gen times were increased and chase (as well as camping) was made easier for killer.
The only thing hyper focus really needs is that it doesn't work with toolboxes and it isn't additive with Stake Out. Like Autodidact and medkits.
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Bro, I just saw Demi do a gen by himself in 34.718 seconds. Which, according to him, beat the 36 seconds that someone had.
I might have to bring Frankies and slap them tool boxes if I see multiple of them. Other wise, yea, it's a bit rough at the moment.
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I wish more took this to heart. They absolutely look at all skill levels when considering changes, with empathesis on not wanting to squelch the newbies or casuals that indeed are the majority of players.
All of you who have gotten very very good at this game in either role, which seems to be most of y'all around the forum's, always feel the changes the harshest.
The quests for efficiency synergy, and advantage may have sucked too much of the fun this game can be my friends.
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There are fewer people playing solo survivor and more people playing as a squad in comms. That makes most games much harder for most killers. That's why solos need more help and also why the game should be balanced around survivors having more communication/knowledge.
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Honestly, I tried a new combination today, Stakeout and Hyperfocus... had a generator done in no time. Not worth permanently switching it out for my Inner Strength and Empathy but it is probably something people could be using now also since Rebecca came out. That combined with toolboxes? Pshhh might as well make it a 10 second gen.
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I'll give you the other side of the coin for perspective. I like to play chill and just for the fun of it. I usually bring wglf, wake up, distortion and then either coh, windows, leader or (and in soloQ always) bond. Not exactly sweaty perks overall. Since the last update my total time playing has halved. Half of the time i do play I do casual 1v1 in customs since the live experience isn't exactly great. I refuse to go sweaty so if I get another day of several matches in a row all about camping a three gen with a hook in the middle, best-add-on-only, tunneling like the killers life depends on it and cross-map snail journeys I rather just close the game. Tho I have thought about using sweat builds in a swf - TB+hyperfocus+stakeout included. Like I said: I don't enjoy that so I stop playing but I'm sure many go sweaty instead. It's not like theres a shortage of TBs and BNP.
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They are playing the regression perks because the Devs nerfed Gen Slowdowns...so with the current Gen Speed Meta that's the only defense against it.
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I split roughly equally between surv and killer. Gen rushing is annoying but it's the late game where you win as killer, herd them to smash through the far out gens then just lure them into a 3 gen, run oppression or pop goes the weasel. Maybe franklins or something to mess with their items. Just gotta play against the tactics.
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There's more Teams because SoloQ is infested with low skill survivors which just makes good survivors not wanna play in SoloQ. Those survivors will instead just try to find Discord channels where they can group up with people so that at least there's 2 people who can work together instead of 4 Potatoes going like headless chickens.
I don't blame them but at the same time the giant boost in team quality is undeniable. I still do all of my survivor matches as SoloQ because i still dream with the day where MMR matters. IF it's gonna be in the game then it has to matter! I hate MMR as it is implemente and because the game clearly doesn't have that manny players to warrant it. BUT it's here so the game has make it work.
AND for those that still do SoloQ then a strong Medkit or Toolbox almost becomes mandtory cause at least you can rely on your own skill to make good use of that toolbox or medkit. And pray to god you're not the first chase or if you are then you're praying to get a decent loop to play while people are doing gens. And obviously you're gonna bring an exhaustion Perk so that's already a harder chase for killer. As killer you don't want a long first chase, you want a down quick to minize the effects of survivors spawning scattered and touching multiple gens.
That's why Discordance, Corrupt, Lethal Pursuer exist. DIscordance and Corrupt have counters outside of using survivor Perks. Lethal Pursuers only counter is with Perks. Distortion, Object of Obsession for example or just hope you're not the one the killer goes for.
SO SoloQ is in shambles and people are grouping up so team efficiency does go up already but each survivor is still allowed to bring whatever... Which means you're just multiplying all the gains from being a SWF by an enormous amount. Therefore you get all the sweaty PainRes DMS Deadlock Overcharge killers...
Then the cheating survivors come in and ruin the game for not only for the killer but for the rest of survivors aswell.
The solutions are obvious. Start treating Survivors as a Team regardless if they're an actual SWF or not and impose limits on stacking effects. Make MMR matter by seperating brand new players from veteran or decently experienced players. Make the MMR Cap higher and introdue 1 new soft cap on top of the new player protection. This way new players only start mattering to MMR after they've had enough matches to where they are presumed to have an understanding of the game. Give Custom matches Bots so people can practive looping or getting the hang of playing a specific killer. It's been long enough BHVR cmon...
Ensuring there's better players ready to enter the MMR queues, making SoloQ life better for everyone without adding UNNECESSARY BASE KIT PERKS LIKE KINDRED. We need better players not more hand holding. And Cap every teams potential so that every team be SWF or not is on a very similar level of efficiency where individual SKILL makes the difference instead of just stacking OP stuff.
Same ######### for killers. Stacking 4 slowdowns or forcing survivors into Pentimento via Plaything is CHEESY AND UNHEALTHY FOR KILLERS!
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I play with Plaything and Pentimento on Wesker and there are some teams who just ignore any plaything. Or boon it. And that is exactly the counterplay. Just don't touch it.
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I'll ignore Plaything too but i can't guarantee the rest of the SoloQ players will and as killer you never have a guarantee you're facing smart survivors so you can expect Plaything Penti to work regularly.
Plus if i'm running Inner Healing then i'm screwed and Inner Healing is a free Perk so there's a decent chance people will run it. Spawning near totems isn't a particularly hard thing to happen. I spawn on totems super regularly in RPD, i already memorized 3 of the spawns so i always check them for Hexes.
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Just make hyperfocus not work with toolboxes and it's all good. Increasing gen times by another 10 seconds or so would be the final nail in the coffin for solo players
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I've been watching PT become more and more used over the last year, even a little more. I was pointing out how disgusting it could be when Trickster came out. I was surprised when 40 perks to be reworked turned into 39 perks to be reworked and PT was nowhere to be seen. I've been of the opinion that it should be the equal of Thana, but with how Thana works now, that would essentially kill PT if the same kind of numbers were applied. I'm not for killing it off. But 15% PER every survivor that joins the PT user is just overkill. At least with Hyperfocus, the huge benefits to get from it require either skill or dedicated builds. PT is like Self Care, just slap it on and away you go. Plus I feel like those that cheat also use PT in the same way they use Self Care, as in they equip it to try and cover their tracks.
There's enough gen repair boost perks and enough gen regression perks. Please... no more. Stop before Boon: Gen Go BRRRRRRRR or Scourge Hook: Poppression comes to be. Literally do not need anymore of those two categories for a long, long time.
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It’s still the only counter to facecamping Bubba. Just had one yesterday on RPD, camped his first hook to death while two generators still needed to be repaired. We barely had enough time to open the exit gate by the time the survivor died. Two Hyperfocuses at least thankfully, all I remember. Otherwise it may have never happened.
When is BHVR going to do something about that, too? 🤔
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They posted stats just a few days ago.
Kill rates are 61% since 6.1.0.
Hyperfocus is a problem but that's it. Killers can't expect to 4k most games both sides need to enjoy themselves. 60% kill rate is a good number. They didn't break it down into further mmr numbers but I can tell you. Right now is about the best killers have had it in a long time in terms of ease of killing in your average matches.
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Do you have any idea how inefficient Prove Thyself actually is?
So tired of seeing the same idiotic posts complaining about this perk while not even understanding what it actually does.
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I'd say that the perk synergy and using a combination of items and perks to achieve a faster gen time is a double edge blade for survivors since they need to take up perk slots and an item slot to just speed up what could be a max of 3 gens start game ( assuming you find a chase a survivor during the time ), by doing this they can limit themselves to being in a 3 gen or even just remove their ability to win chases or heal depending on what they take with what they have left over. This still doesn't make it all that easy for the killer but if you throw out the survivor rule book for killers and just try to 1 hook or tunnel someone to increase pressure and take the game back that could help stop these situations from resulting in a loss ( 1 or less survivors killed at end match ), this is also assuming you aren't facing a sweat lord swf who play way too much and abuse the game itself to their favor. Overall I think that gen times can be helped by just reducing the effectiveness of the gen speed perks ( down to the levels that most killer perks are balanced to being at ) and also making better perk synergy for killer perks aswell ( eruption with oppression as an example )
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BHVR: "Gen speeds are too fast at 80 seconds we are adding 10 to slow the game down!"
also
BHVR: "45 second gens with an item and 2 perks makes sense!"
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I absolutely agree with pretty much all of this, including how its misguided to assume the devs are x mains in people's arguments. My only issue with how they balance it is that they are oblivious to the impact of a lot of the changes they introduce, the kind of stuff that any playtester worth their salt will generally point out in alpha testing before even getting to further details. There could very well be people who raise these concerns internally and get shut down, then end up both validated and ignored when the problems they warn about happen. Its not fair to blame anyone on the team and assume the worst, when they're just doing their job and following orders at the end of the day.
If you want to blame anyone, it unfortunately falls to the top, which is why they're in the positions they're in. They have to make tough decisions based on the information provided, and it can be unknown why they might reach the decisions they do without having all of the data and perspective they do. Even then you can absolutely disagree with what they decide or why they decide it, but its essentially impossible to determine their intentions.
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They have yet to make a killer sided patch. If the game was killer sided, killer mains across the board would be saying stuff is unfair. Killer hasn't broke even with the survivors yet. We're still playing catch-up. Saying that taking away pallet vacuums, taking away infinites, and adding in entity blocker were "survivor nerfs" makes it sound like they were done arbitrarily, or because killer mains complained. No, they were done as necessary qol changes so that the game's life cycle could continue. Who wants to play a game with infinites, or where a survivor can keep you at a single strong window for 2 minutes, or where your actions are slow and clunky but the survivors' are fast in a janky-looking way? Nobody. That's why I'm tired of people phrasing it like that.
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Eh, you might say that but at least for me, killer queues are long for a reason, and the constant 100% bonus bp on survivors is active all the time for a reason too.
I'm an average player, I don't aim to sweat it out for a win in either of my survivor or killer games, I play for fun. Ever since that one big patch a couple months back or so, I rarely escape. I can't run fun perks, I have to run meta perks to have a chance, and even then I have to work a lot harder to get things done. The first 2 gens are fine, but after that it becomes significantly harder. On the killer side however, I've noticed I can slack off and play for fun far more easily than before and still secure a 3-4k. I often let people go because to be nice, but now I do it just because I feel bad.
But that's just my experience.
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Half the time (or more)???
Not surprised, everyone here seems to need something or someone else to blame when they don't win -- it obviously cannot be themselves.
I'm going to make this really simple for you and hopefully anyone else that cannot seem to comprehend how Prove Thyself actually works.
A generator being done by two Survivors without Prove Thyself takes 52.94 seconds to complete.
A generator being done by two Survivors with Prove Thyself takes 45.00 seconds to complete.
A generator being done by three Survivors without Prove Thyself takes 35.29 seconds to complete.
A generator being done by three Survivors with Prove Thyself takes 30 seconds to complete.
Guess how long it takes two SEPERATE Survivors doing two SEPERATE generators where both of them have Prove Thyself?
90 SECONDS.
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My experience has been the opposite I almost never get chill killer games anymore, and most of the survivor games are tough as well, either because of my solo teammates of my amateur SWF. Those bp incentives seem random to me, because killer has historically always been in demand, and at times I've seen killer get a 25% or 50% bp incentive. On the survivor side though, I notice that it's always my teammates that cause me grief, and almost never the killer. Survivor should be easy but it just isn't, despite the difficult nature of killer barely changing even with the last few patches. Your teammates make it so difficult, running 1 or no meta perks, can't take the killer on a chase longer than 20 seconds, won't do gens, hide, don't body block. I get these types of teammates even while being matched with a killer that's actually trying. They're the real killer, and until we change the MMR system, this is how it's gonna be.
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So, Prove Thyself saves 5-8 seconds on a generator in a specific situation near the end of the game.
It's not saving half the time (or more) on a generator.
Saving nearly half the time on a generator is accomplished by two or more Survivors working on a generator WITH OR WITHOUT PROVE THYSELF.
That's my point, not hard to figure out.
Players use this perk for the bloodpoints, not to sweat their balls off.
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just use overcharge +cob. Much more broken but way more boring
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