Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Was the selfcare nerf a good idea?
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just decent" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.
What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.
EDIT: So far it seems like the most people agree with that the healing speed nerf was a bad idea and backfired killer so gens are getting rushed even faster.
Comments
-
Self care received no nerf.
6 -
It takes longer, don't know what your talking aboutAcromio said:Self care received no nerf.
3 -
Yes, it was a bad idea which mainly came from killer mains complaining about SC and totally backfired on them as we can see now. Funny thing is that i still see some people asking for SC to get nerfed, ignoring that even more survivors would realize about how useless is SC and changing their build to Resilience + Adrenaline.11
-
I mean I was using adrenalin since release, but I was using selfcare aswell and only rushed the last gen injured. Now, I don't use SC at all and run injured the whole match not bothering about beeing injured and pumping gens with adrenalin at the end.Vietfox said:Yes, it was a bad idea which mainly came from killer mains complaining about SC and totally backfired on them as we can see now. Funny thing is that i still see some people asking for SC to get nerfed, ignoring that even more survivors would realize about how useless is SC and changing their build to Resilience + Adrenaline.
Tbf, only good survivors can stay injured all time but isn't that exactly the issue? The issue are the good survivors and not the bad survivors if we talk about balance3 -
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Acromio said:Self care received no nerf.
It takes longer, don't know what your talking about
This was no Nerf to Self Care, it was a general Nerf to Healing Speed. That is what he meant. (Of course we all know what you mean, some people are just picky)
I agree to you, even though I rarely see that people do not heal anymore. Running Self Care is still not bad at all. I think it is fine as it is.
But like said before, some people really want to nerf Self Care. I have read one "idea" where the time should be doubled or trippled. I simply cannot understand why people really think that this would be good, nobody would heal for 60 or even 90 seconds, everyone would just run Resilience and rush the Gens. Really hard to think a little bit further I guess...
1 -
Oh man how picky some people are, as I said something completely wrong lolAven_Fallen said:@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Acromio said:Self care received no nerf.
It takes longer, don't know what your talking about
This was no Nerf to Self Care, it was a general Nerf to Healing Speed. That is what he meant. (Of course we all know what you mean, some people are just picky)
I agree to you, even though I rarely see that people do not heal anymore. Running Self Care is still not bad at all. I think it is fine as it is.
But like said before, some people really want to nerf Self Care. I have read one "idea" where the time should be doubled or trippled. I simply cannot understand why people really think that this would be good, nobody would heal for 60 or even 90 seconds, everyone would just run Resilience and rush the Gens. Really hard to think a little bit further I guess...
0 -
It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.
The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.
2 -
That was bad idea. You don't see the issue with this. It's theoritaclly a nerf in a practice buff. If surv heal theyself 25% faster (75% normal) and heal other 25% slower (75% too) all will heal thyself = low amount of BP (even lower) =
2.1.0 - 12 seconds of healing > 16 seconds of healing
2.5.0 - 16 seconds of healing > 12 seconds of healing. Pretty good job1 -
It was good. A lot of survivors heal each other now whereas before everyone just ran away and went to self-care. It feels more like a teamgame now and there is more interactions between survivors.
That's why the ptb self-care was so bad. Rather than interacting with survivors, generators and killer, you were only interacting with generators and killer.
SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).1 -
Oh oh, mixed opinions.
This'll be fun.1 -
What's wrong with Adrenaline now? It's an end game perk, meaning that survivors gotta play with 3 perks most of the match. If they are alive by the time all gens are done i say the earned it.@The_Crusader said:SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).
Every ######### time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.1 -
Well as has been discussed, 4 man SWF in which if multiple are alive at the end then they get a super sprint burst which is almost twice as long as regular, an instaheal, and it can even be used righr after a regular exhaustion perk if the timing is right.Vietfox said:
What's wrong with Adrenaline now? It's an end game perk, meaning that survivors gotta play with 3 perks most of the match. If they are alive by the time all gens are done i say the earned it.@The_Crusader said:SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.
The killer at that point has 20 seconds before the gates are opened in which to catch up to, outplay and then down the survivor. Really shafts lower tier killers if they don't have NOED.
That's why everyone says if NOED went Adrenaline would need to go too.0 -
If multiple survivors, especially all 4, are still alive by the time gates are powered that means killer messed up, so i don't see a problem there.@The_Crusader said:
Well as has been discussed, 4 man SWF in which if multiple are alive at the end then they get a super sprint burst which is almost twice as long as regular, an instaheal, and it can even be used righr after a regular exhaustion perk if the timing is right.@Vietfox said:
What's wrong with Adrenaline now? It's an end game perk, meaning that survivors gotta play with 3 perks most of the match. If they are alive by the time all gens are done i say the earned it.@The_Crusader said:SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.
The killer at that point has 20 seconds before the gates are opened in which to catch up to, outplay and then down the survivor. Really shafts lower tier killers if they don't have NOED.
That's why everyone says if NOED went Adrenaline would need to go too.
I don't have any single problem with noed either, they both can stay.1 -
Yeah, I watched a lot of people that doesn't run self care and they gen rushed the whole outta the killer. Now I play without SC and now my gameplay style change a little bit. Tbh self care nerf doesn't help to stop gen rush. Idk why the devs even implement this change.
1 -
So if you have a bad game, especially on a pallet heavy map, it's ok to take a middle finger at the end game?Vietfox said:
If multiple survivors, especially all 4, are still alive by the time gates are powered that means killer messed up, so i don't see a problem there.@The_Crusader said:
Well as has been discussed, 4 man SWF in which if multiple are alive at the end then they get a super sprint burst which is almost twice as long as regular, an instaheal, and it can even be used righr after a regular exhaustion perk if the timing is right.@Vietfox said:
What's wrong with Adrenaline now? It's an end game perk, meaning that survivors gotta play with 3 perks most of the match. If they are alive by the time all gens are done i say the earned it.@The_Crusader said:SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.
The killer at that point has 20 seconds before the gates are opened in which to catch up to, outplay and then down the survivor. Really shafts lower tier killers if they don't have NOED.
That's why everyone says if NOED went Adrenaline would need to go too.
I don't have any single problem with noed either, they both can stay.
Besides if you try to 2 hook everyone and go for a different survior each time as survivors want you'll often end up with multiple survivors left at the end.3 -
@Vietfox said:
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.No, it's actually the other way around.
@arecbalrin said:Killers did adapt; survivors simply demanded nerfs every time we did. Every time, they got exactly what they asked for.
Survivors started abusing pallets to grief and farm rather than escape chases, killers complained, got told to 'just adapt' and we did. The devs then buffed pallets to make them foolproof so our adaptation to them no longer worked, because survivors complained about killers being able to adapt to this.
Survivors broke all the hooks, making it impossible for a killer to win if the basement was in a corner of the map. Survivors said 'just adapt', so we did. The devs then gave survivors buffs and killers nerfs to stop slugging at the end of the match where survivors die on the floor because of a situation they created. Eventually we got the regenerating hooks, almost a year after they were needed.
Survivors swarmed hooks for rescues, whilst accusing killers of 'camping' when we never had a chance to even leave the damn thing and as no survivors were doing gens, had no reason to. 'Just adapt' they said again, so we combined the perks Unrelenting and Save The Best For Last to speed-up melee cooldown and prevent hook-swarms. The survivors screamed so much about this, how dare we prevent them from getting away with constant in-game trolling, farming and abusiveness, the devs over-nerfed both perks beyond what survivors even asked for. No explanation was ever given for why the devs made the changes they did here.
Even survivors thought what they did was too much, but shrugged their shoulders and said 'good killer will just adapt' and we did: seeing as survivors were refusing to do gens anyway and always swarming the hook, we blocked the space for unhooking with 'face-camping'. They went ballistic; how dare killers keep adapting after we dismiss their complaints every time by telling them to J U S T A D A P T !
The devs buffed them: Trapper had the ability to put traps under hooks taken away(and this was disingenously listed as a bug-fix) and survivors are now able to unhook from multiple angles.
When is it survivors turn to 'just adapt'? Because it seems to me that whenever they encounter the slightest resistance in-game, their meta is to demand changes from the devs and almost the absolute majority of the time, they get what they ask for.
1 -
Yes, same if you have a bad game as a survivor. Accept defeat in both cases and move on.The_Crusader said:
So if you have a bad game, especially on a pallet heavy map, it's ok to take a middle finger at the end game?Vietfox said:
If multiple survivors, especially all 4, are still alive by the time gates are powered that means killer messed up, so i don't see a problem there.@The_Crusader said:
Well as has been discussed, 4 man SWF in which if multiple are alive at the end then they get a super sprint burst which is almost twice as long as regular, an instaheal, and it can even be used righr after a regular exhaustion perk if the timing is right.@Vietfox said:
What's wrong with Adrenaline now? It's an end game perk, meaning that survivors gotta play with 3 perks most of the match. If they are alive by the time all gens are done i say the earned it.@The_Crusader said:SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.
The killer at that point has 20 seconds before the gates are opened in which to catch up to, outplay and then down the survivor. Really shafts lower tier killers if they don't have NOED.
That's why everyone says if NOED went Adrenaline would need to go too.
I don't have any single problem with noed either, they both can stay.1 -
They already did, this is why we got this thread now.@Acromio said:@Vietfox said:
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.No, it's actually the other way around.
@arecbalrin said:When is it survivors turn to 'just adapt'?
That being said i'm not here to defend every suggestion from survivor mains, i know many of them are pretty dumb and i've been against them too.1 -
Very well said.Acromio said:@Vietfox said:
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.No, it's actually the other way around.
@arecbalrin said:Killers did adapt; survivors simply demanded nerfs every time we did. Every time, they got exactly what they asked for.
Survivors started abusing pallets to grief and farm rather than escape chases, killers complained, got told to 'just adapt' and we did. The devs then buffed pallets to make them foolproof so our adaptation to them no longer worked, because survivors complained about killers being able to adapt to this.
Survivors broke all the hooks, making it impossible for a killer to win if the basement was in a corner of the map. Survivors said 'just adapt', so we did. The devs then gave survivors buffs and killers nerfs to stop slugging at the end of the match where survivors die on the floor because of a situation they created. Eventually we got the regenerating hooks, almost a year after they were needed.
Survivors swarmed hooks for rescues, whilst accusing killers of 'camping' when we never had a chance to even leave the damn thing and as no survivors were doing gens, had no reason to. 'Just adapt' they said again, so we combined the perks Unrelenting and Save The Best For Last to speed-up melee cooldown and prevent hook-swarms. The survivors screamed so much about this, how dare we prevent them from getting away with constant in-game trolling, farming and abusiveness, the devs over-nerfed both perks beyond what survivors even asked for. No explanation was ever given for why the devs made the changes they did here.
Even survivors thought what they did was too much, but shrugged their shoulders and said 'good killer will just adapt' and we did: seeing as survivors were refusing to do gens anyway and always swarming the hook, we blocked the space for unhooking with 'face-camping'. They went ballistic; how dare killers keep adapting after we dismiss their complaints every time by telling them to J U S T A D A P T !
The devs buffed them: Trapper had the ability to put traps under hooks taken away(and this was disingenously listed as a bug-fix) and survivors are now able to unhook from multiple angles.
When is it survivors turn to 'just adapt'? Because it seems to me that whenever they encounter the slightest resistance in-game, their meta is to demand changes from the devs and almost the absolute majority of the time, they get what they ask for.
The ptb self-care which the devs insist they want to bring back despite the negativd reaction is proof of this.
After the healing nerf and most killers taking sloppy, as survivor I...
- Used Pharmacy, Botany and Bond (good self-heal speed, item effiency, and heal others faster)
Then after ending up with 30 green medkits in my inventory I...
- Took a green med kit, self-care and We'll make it (self-care for item effiency, we'll make it for lightning fast heals)
And after using that for a while I now take...
- self-care and botany (heal myself in 21 seconds, faster than the old self-care, and I heal others 33% faster too)
All of this is adapting to healing nerfs and killers running sloppy to slow down healing.
However some survivors just cry and cry for self-care to be the only perk they need again just like in the old days where you get unlimted self-heals and at a good speed. With the ptb it seems the devs wanted to cater to them rather than forcing them to adapt.0 -
The classic unexpected consequences. Was it a good idea on paper, probably. Good in practice? No it wasn't1
-
No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.Blueberry said:It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.
The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.
4 -
What happend? I do not see anything in the recent patchnotes...
1 -
Because more people started to notice that less survivors run SC due to being a waste of time and instead they do gens and heal themselves with adrenaline, making the gemrush even faster than before.@RSB said:1 -
@Vietfox said:
@RSB said:
What happend? I do not see anything in the recent patchnotes...
We are talking about the last healing nerf, which happened some time ago already.
So... Why are people arguing about it now, instead of arguing about it when it came out?
Because more people started to notice that less survivors run SC due to being a waste of time and instead they do gens and heal themselves with adrenaline, making the gemrush even faster than before.
It may be a good change, survivors now use other, maybe even better perks, which they would not normally use. Like Iron Will, for example, which is, in my opinion, a must have on survivor, or UE.
Not talking about Adrenaline, because I haven't seen any difference in it's usage.
0 -
It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculousfcc2014 said:
No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.Blueberry said:It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.
The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.
4 -
@OrionsFury4789 said:
fcc2014 said:
Blueberry said:It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.
The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.
No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.
It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculous
Sounds to me like you started playing Killer comparably recently. If you look at the game from 2.0.0 onwards and disregard all the buffs Survivors/nerfs Killers had prior to that update, then you lack the bigger picture of why tables have turned now.
2 -
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.
SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
0 -
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.@Master said:@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.
SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
1 -
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.
What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.
SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
3 -
@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.
What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.
SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
The change to nurses calling specifically targeted docs snapping out progress.
The healing nerf was a general nerf to healing and was not specific to SC0 -
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.@DocOctober said:@HavelmomDaS1 said:
I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.
What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.
SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.1 -
@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
5 -
Every second counts, that's why i run Resilience too.@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
4 -
Because I'm one of the person who observes changes for a long time before I discuss. Maybe it's an extreme of me, but at least it's the better side of the extreme compared to others who discuss things before they even got released lolRSB said:1 -
Exactly! Also, it's 8 second longer without sloppy right? How long is it with sloppy/beeing mangled? Way to long imoVietfox said:
Every second counts, that's why i run Resilience too.@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
1 -
I started playing killer on console release date , and buffs? Lol that's a joke , those were more QOL changes than buffs, you sir are extremely biased if you're going to sit here and pretend like it's just as hard to play killer now just like it was two years agoDocOctober said:@OrionsFury4789 said:
fcc2014 said:
Blueberry said:It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.
The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.
No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.
It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculous
Sounds to me like you started playing Killer comparably recently. If you look at the game from 2.0.0 onwards and disregard all the buffs Survivors/nerfs Killers had prior to that update, then you lack the bigger picture of why tables have turned now.
0 -
Yeah i don't remember, but enough to do half gen or so i think.@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Exactly! Also, it's 8 second longer without sloppy right? How long is it with sloppy/beeing mangled? Way to long imo@Vietfox said:
Every second counts, that's why i run Resilience too.@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
1 -
Who ever plays how Survivors tell them too deserves what they getThe_Crusader said:
So if you have a bad game, especially on a pallet heavy map, it's ok to take a middle finger at the end game?Vietfox said:
If multiple survivors, especially all 4, are still alive by the time gates are powered that means killer messed up, so i don't see a problem there.@The_Crusader said:
Well as has been discussed, 4 man SWF in which if multiple are alive at the end then they get a super sprint burst which is almost twice as long as regular, an instaheal, and it can even be used righr after a regular exhaustion perk if the timing is right.@Vietfox said:
What's wrong with Adrenaline now? It's an end game perk, meaning that survivors gotta play with 3 perks most of the match. If they are alive by the time all gens are done i say the earned it.@The_Crusader said:SWF rushing gens with Adrenaline is just an SWF issue and the unholy trio of perks issue (DS/NOED/Adrenaline).
Every [BAD WORD] time survivors find a way to work around new changes people come over and complain about how they managed to adapt to those changes.
The killer at that point has 20 seconds before the gates are opened in which to catch up to, outplay and then down the survivor. Really shafts lower tier killers if they don't have NOED.
That's why everyone says if NOED went Adrenaline would need to go too.
I don't have any single problem with noed either, they both can stay.
Besides if you try to 2 hook everyone and go for a different survior each time as survivors want you'll often end up with multiple survivors left at the end.1 -
@OrionsFury4789 said:
DocOctober said:@OrionsFury4789 said:
fcc2014 said:
Blueberry said: It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done. The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong. No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.
It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculous
Sounds to me like you started playing Killer comparably recently. If you look at the game from 2.0.0 onwards and disregard all the buffs Survivors/nerfs Killers had prior to that update, then you lack the bigger picture of why tables have turned now.
I started playing killer on console release date , and buffs? Lol that's a joke , those were more QOL changes than buffs, you sir are extremely biased if you're going to sit here and pretend like it's just as hard to play killer now just like it was two years ago
I've played this game since PC release, always as a 50/50 player, ranked up well over 2000 hours and maintain the Wiki for nearly 2 years now. I know of every buff, nerf, rework and QoL change there ever was in the game.
I will not put up with anyone daring to call me biased.
As for your comment after that:
All in all, playing Killer was easiest in 2016, ranged anywhere from moderate to difficult all throughout 2017 and half of 2018 and is now back to moderate. I never claimed it was difficult, but it also most definitely isn't easy compared to 2016.Survivor on the other hand was only hard in 2016, when no one knew what the hell they were doing. Ever since that, it's been easy, especially so in a group and still is if you don't ######### around and play stupid.
3 -
@DocOctober said:
@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
Well guess why, the ability to heal yourself is just mindblowing, no need to search for a teammate that can heal you (which is even difficult via voicecomms if you are playing with inexperienced survivors)
0 -
Still a worse tactic than not healing and keep doing gens. (of course you still need to be a decent survivor to afford being injured)@Master said:@DocOctober said:
@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:@Vietfox said:
@Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.
Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.
If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.
I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
Well guess why, the ability to heal yourself is just mindblowing, no need to search for a teammate that can heal you (which is even difficult via voicecomms if you are playing with inexperienced survivors)
I'm so thankful for the healing nerf, seriously, made me see things from a different point of view and become more efficient.1 -
@The_Crusader said:
Besides if you try to 2 hook everyone and go for a different survior each time as survivors want you'll often end up with multiple survivors left at the end.That should be obvious. If by the time there are only 1-2 Generators left to complete and all 4 Survivors are still in the game, it doesn't matter whether they just 1 or 3 Hooks left, their manpower at that point is so strong that it will be nigh impossible to win the game at that point unless they really screw up badly. All it needs is one good looper left and the other 3 working on the last Gen or two and it's ggez.
2 -
@DocOctober said:
@Vietfox said: @DocOctober said: @Vietfox said: @Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action. Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed. If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed. I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.
Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
Well guess why, the ability to heal yourself is just mindblowing, no need to search for a teammate that can heal you (which is even difficult via voicecomms if you are playing with inexperienced survivors)
Still a worse tactic than not healing and keep doing gens. (of course you still need to be a decent survivor to afford being injured)
I'm so thankful for the healing nerf, seriously, made me see things from a different point of view and become more efficient.Which shows you how broken the gen situation is right now.
I agree with the healing nerf aswell, being injured needs to mean sth.
0 -
It means something already, you are giving the chance to the killer to get instadowned again. I would say it's a good trade-off.@Master said:@DocOctober said:
@Vietfox said: @DocOctober said: @Vietfox said: @Master said:
@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.
The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed
If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action. Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed. If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed. I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.
Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.
And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.
Well guess why, the ability to heal yourself is just mindblowing, no need to search for a teammate that can heal you (which is even difficult via voicecomms if you are playing with inexperienced survivors)
Still a worse tactic than not healing and keep doing gens. (of course you still need to be a decent survivor to afford being injured)
I'm so thankful for the healing nerf, seriously, made me see things from a different point of view and become more efficient.Which shows you how broken the gen situation is right now.
I agree with the healing nerf aswell, being injured needs to mean sth.
If killers can't take advantage from that then it's on them.1 -
That's the point. They want you to play that way yet they also think it's ok to all run Adrenaline and the killer can't run NOED.DocOctober said:@The_Crusader said:
Besides if you try to 2 hook everyone and go for a different survior each time as survivors want you'll often end up with multiple survivors left at the end.That should be obvious. If by the time there are only 1-2 Generators left to complete and all 4 Survivors are still in the game, it doesn't matter whether they just 1 or 3 Hooks left, their manpower at that point is so strong that it will be nigh impossible to win the game at that point unless they really screw up badly. All it needs is one good looper left and the other 3 working on the last Gen or two and it's ggez.
Those things can't be combined.0 -
I never said survivor was hard but I will stick to my guns that killer now is the easiest it's ever been for console , PC was a whole different ballgame when it first started and there's so much that changed before it even came to console that I guess I don't consider it because I don't play on that platform ,but from my experience if you started on console from the beginning and you still think it's hard as ever than something is definitely wrong with that , as for survivor not every group is the depip squad and I rarely can say wow those guys ######### me up when I play killer , and when I'm solo randoms are trash 75% of the time even at rank one , I could easily win with a group but that's majority not always possible to have for me anywayDocOctober said:@OrionsFury4789 said:
DocOctober said:@OrionsFury4789 said:
fcc2014 said:
Blueberry said: It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done. The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong. No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.
It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculous
Sounds to me like you started playing Killer comparably recently. If you look at the game from 2.0.0 onwards and disregard all the buffs Survivors/nerfs Killers had prior to that update, then you lack the bigger picture of why tables have turned now.
I started playing killer on console release date , and buffs? Lol that's a joke , those were more QOL changes than buffs, you sir are extremely biased if you're going to sit here and pretend like it's just as hard to play killer now just like it was two years ago
I've played this game since PC release, always as a 50/50 player, ranked up well over 2000 hours and maintain the Wiki for nearly 2 years now. I know of every buff, nerf, rework and QoL change there ever was in the game.
I will not put up with anyone daring to call me biased.
As for your comment after that:
All in all, playing Killer was easiest in 2016, ranged anywhere from moderate to difficult all throughout 2017 and half of 2018 and is now back to moderate. I never claimed it was difficult, but it also most definitely isn't easy compared to 2016.Survivor on the other hand was only hard in 2016, when no one knew what the hell they were doing. Ever since that, it's been easy, especially so in a group and still is if you don't [BAD WORD] around and play stupid.
1 -
Hmmm another worthless assumption. Though not surprised.DocOctober said:@OrionsFury4789 said:
fcc2014 said:
Blueberry said:It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.
The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.
No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.
It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculous
Sounds to me like you started playing Killer comparably recently. If you look at the game from 2.0.0 onwards and disregard all the buffs Survivors/nerfs Killers had prior to that update, then you lack the bigger picture of why tables have turned now.
2
