Since we are giving survivors basekit UB so they dont get bored.

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Can we please do something for killers about this?

This is also boring.


Comments

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,545
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    Make the timer run faster per survivor in gate? Worst case they leave quicker, best case it throws off their timing and they die?

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
    edited October 2022
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    I agree, problem is they spend the whole last gen jumping over windows trying to get my attention when I give up at 1 gen left.

    I know when theyre far better, then when I go to hook one of them theyll bodyblock, flashlight, dh, flip flop etc. Gen is 99ed ready to go.

  • JoByDaylight
    JoByDaylight Member Posts: 707
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    Ugh yea been there... I just work to end the game as soon as possible in those situations.

    Better luck next game 😊

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    For a second I thought it was supposed to be about how bad Sadako is 👻

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
    edited October 2022
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    They were a really good team. All 6k hours, level 80s. Destroying me. Got my first hook at 2 gens left.

    4x prove thyself, BNP, etc, hyperfocus.

    I couldnt keep up at all.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    Oh ye I was memeing, I definitely understand how hopeless it can feel when outmatched by survivors. There have been suggestions in the past to let killers open the gates early and start the EGC when there are still gens left, but simultaneously deactivating any EGC perks like noed and blood warden so that killers have a forfeit option earlier in the match like how survivors frequently ragequit on hook. I've even had a more fleshed out idea:

    Have a shrine in the basement that only that specific killer can interact with. If they do, the match ends: all survivors alive escape (including if downed and bleeding out,) and it can not be activated if any survivors are on any hooks. Everybody gets any points they accumulated (including the killer) and any additional bonuses (especially regarding the survival category) are applied as normal.

    There's even room for flavor animations for all of these things. The killer could have a first person animation of the entity entombing them for punishment/prep for the next trial, survivors could be pulled into the ground and teleported to the exit gates then flung out of them, etc. Hell, they could use those fancy new wesker animations to do it.

    If they're not going to address suicide on hook in any meaningful way, they have to give killers a way to get out of trials without eating a penalty or afking and playing a better game while they wait. They've got to address one or the other if they want pairty in their dc punishment system.

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
    edited October 2022
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    Thats a pretty good idea.

    I think it needs to be addressed, since theyre adding the top tier perks as basekit for survivor its allowing survivors to bring full bully / genrush builds and I am noticing more games feel hopeless for me lately.

    Even though they added 10 seconds, gens are absolutely flying for me. I used to be able to have 1 person dead by 3 gens left pretty consistently

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
    edited October 2022
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    The gen speed thing is a bit misleading, because its actually a range of 20-50 seconds total. 10 seconds doesn't add 30 seconds if 3 gens are being worked on at the same time, it adds 10 seconds before 3 gens pop. And since ruin and corrupt got nerfed pretty badly, most killer pressure has to rely on blocking gens or kicking them which mean survivors are even stronger in early game than they were before.

    Deadlock is pretty much your best friend for dealing with that stuff, unfortunately. It at least prevents one of the gens from popping in your first chase, and gives you a location to pressure afterward.

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669
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    Yes, I too hate corners.

    We should round them all!

  • BenOfMilam
    BenOfMilam Member Posts: 911
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    This would also more or less solve the hacker problem.

  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,285
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    While I absolutely believe there should be some kinda lever in the basement or something that immediately makes all living survivors escape that becomes available when the last gen is done OR after X minutes have passed, there is a difference between being slugged for 4 minutes and people waiting at gates. The latter can be ended by hitting them, they either leave or they die.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
    edited October 2022
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    The X minutes stipulation can account for part of it, but OP's point was that the match was unwinnable from a pretty early state, and they were forced to go through the motions or afk until the survivors finished and left. Its not as easy as just chasing people out when they're purposely playing less efficient to focus on maximizing their BM, and people often drag matches out when they have no fear of losing. You can literally feel as hopeless as the dreaded 4 min slugs do, so its not really necessary to use that bad situation to try to invalidate someone else's.

  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,285
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    Personally I disagree to some extent, as even in the most hopeless killer matches you can still at least try, and you get to do more than recover and crawl around while doing so. I do fully understand I'm probably a bit of an anomaly as I genuinely do not give a fraction of a damn about any BM they can do, and I know that's not the case for everyone.

    But yeah, I did sorta misunderstand, I assumed it was primarily about people waiting until the last femtosecond of EGC to leave and stuff (which IS a pointless waste of time even if the killer can chase them out, one that's worth eliminating). In a lot of ways I'd call it a matchmaking issue first and foremost as it takes a pretty serious skill difference for a match like that (in either direction) to happen, but we all know matchmaking can have a bit of a moment for a lot of reasons (lobby backfills, long queue times on either side getting people to the "screw it, find them ANY match" point and more).

    And the "X minutes" aren't even necessarily any amount of time long enough that makes it more laser-focused on hostage matches, cheaters and so on. It could be as low as 4-5 minutes and I'd be totally fine with testing it with such a short time requirement.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,533
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    I would say to shorten the EGC to 1 minute

    And either shorten Gen times to 80 charges or shorten hook times (seems that there are perks for stopping the hook timer)

    Also shortening the Blocked Gen perks (Deadlock)

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    I don't like the idea of shortening the EGC because of how easy it is to manipulate. 99ing exits is one part of it, but there can also be legitimate plays during that time. The entire point of 99ing gates is to keep that timer as long as possible to keep room for legitimate plays during the EGC.

    If it were to be shortened in any way, it should if there is a survivor standing inside the exit gates, kinda like how it slows when someone is downed or hooked. There will definitely be a learning period where people will unknowingly speed the timer up, but with a reasonable alteration to the bar (like when it is slowed) it should be apparent enough that people wouldn't do it on accident for long.

    The other suggestions about reducing gen times and gen block times has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
    edited October 2022
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    I think a very common misconception about the "smack them at the gate to make them leave" is the match that led up to that point. It has a very different effect mentally when you're just slapping them so they'd leave, vs being subjected to constant bm for the entire time leading up to the "icing on the cake" moment of having to sit there and do 8+ M1's while they get their last kicks in. Its why I don't consider that argument any more or less than telling survivors to afk and do something else if they're forced to bleed out: Most of their frustration comes from everything leading up to being put in that state, as well as their current temperament. They're even trying to find a way to give them free basekit multi-use UB for their troubles, balance and other mechanics be damned.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,533
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    I mean it'll help Killers... At the vary least

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
    edited October 2022
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    The problem is when I give up with 1 hook at 4 gens done, and they refuse to do the final gen. They will 99 it so if I go try to kill them, theyll pop it and get adreneline, and bm me more.

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
    edited October 2022
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    Exactly. They want protection hits as the icing on the cake, and a flashlight save if you try to down them.

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959
    edited October 2022
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    Devs do something to fix things killers find unfun in the game? HAHAHAHA. Took them forever to get DS to a balance state, old Dead Hard was in the game for 5+ years and now is even stronger than before, BS maps haven't been touched, SWF still dominates. Yeah good luck with that. Next patch will have basekit Circle of Healing, DS, and Adrenaline

  • Fred_krueger
    Fred_krueger Member Posts: 163
    edited October 2022
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    I actually really do think theyll add basekit DS next. DS will just make it twice as long as basekit.

    COH needs to be removed from the game. They need to admit it was a mistake, and change it or remove it.

  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,285
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    That's why I say the way to immediately end the match wouldn't be exclusively tied to the last gen being done. It can also be something as short as 5 minutes of game time, then you can end the match no matter what they're up to.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    Which would indeed fix the issue of not having to smack them out the exit gate, making it fix that problem at the same time. I think they were more responding to exit gate/bleedout dismissal. But like you proposed, having any type of time based opt out with a reasonable timer would indeed cover that as well. Basically you're both right but that dismissal caused a bit of discordance.

  • oxygen
    oxygen Member Posts: 3,285
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    I do apologize as I didn't mean to dismiss anyone, guess I just forget at times as I personally don't experience feeling frustrated in that "icing on the cake" way in situations like that.

    And my preferred idea for bleedouts was always just straight up letting slugged survivors in a game state deemed "unrecoverable" teleport themselves onto a basement hook anyway where they're rushed through hook stages with no kobe attempts, not basekit UB of any kind. Just allow players to skip what might be a pointless wait for an already determined outcome without needing the "consent" of their opponent(s), preferably without having to interact with them to do it at all. But still a concession mechanic first and foremost, unlike the UB stuff.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    Thats kinda the direction they were planning on taking the finishing mori idea, but they had to come up with the convoluted basekit UB idea to counteract how killers would manipulate that and slug like crazy rather than going for hooks. I've seen a lot of compromises where they range from making it so that only the first person can get up when the other 1/2/3 get downed, ones where the effect doesnt happen if there are second chance perks present (like UB) that can still recover the game, etc. The whole situation is one I dislike for one specific reason: Its introducing new problems in an attempt to fix old ones. There's always going to be some collateral here and there, but they came up with this whole new system and over complicated everything by trying to force the game itself to adapt to the solution, rather than the other way around.

    Also ye, Im sure you didn't mean to. I'm trying to work on being more mindful myself, so if it prevents arguments im always for mentioning it.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,156
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    I had something like that to happen to me when I played wraith without any slow down and last gen was on shack 90% done I ended up getting kill though and some hooks but they just wanted to mess around.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,329
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    I really don't wanna sound mean but why play sadako and get upset at people dunking on you? There is no drawback in making fun of someone playing sdako atm in the game. What are they gonna do? Play a good killer and get good with them and im sure you will almost never run into these problem.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,729
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    The game has a learning curve, especially for killer. Its extremely common for people starting out to have these types of games when paired with players who are more experienced, and even experienced players can have games like this on killers/loadouts/etc that they don't know or understand. I'm just glad they're finally eventually adding the ability to enter custom games with a bot so you can practice things as either side without needing either a buddy or trial by goddamn fire.