REWORK SADAKO!!!
Sadako is indeed one of the weakest killer in the game, but she has the same problem as the Pig had before nerf. She is able to body block the last TV and force you to get condemned, like Pig could do with the jigsaw boxes. This cheap strategy is used with the purple addon, Editing Tape, that makes all four survivors start with one tape at the beginning of the match, and the Yoiche's fishing mat, that builds condemn faster.
So, if Pig was nerfed because she was able to body block the jigsaw boxes, sadako should be nerfed in the same way because once you are fully condemned, your location is revealed and the killer can just tunnel you out of the game easily. (No hooks are necessary for this strategy).
Comments
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Nah
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Same situation, same rework.
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Pig actually got buffed, mate.
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That's debatable, but the point is that people can exploit this mechanic to play in the same way as pig players did.
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Except Sadako has no way of knowing she's sitting in front of the right TV, given there's 6? TVs and 4 survivors (versus 4 and 4 with Pig), and the survivor can also literally walk through her and insert the tape after the first hit even if they're condemned, meaning a smart survivor can walk out of this with just a hook. STBFL could counter this, but a Sadako who's been camping a TV all game doesn't have stacks.
Pig had about a 65% chance of getting at least one kill for free, with the only counter being SWF and insane coordination (that Deadlock or Ruin could destroy instantly.)
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You don't become exposed. If she does not have STBFL, I am pretty sure you have time to just put the tape in while she is on cool down from the first hit. I'll admit that I may be wrong, though.
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Lethal pursuer gets in clutch when it comes to guess what TV is the correct one. If a survivor spawn in one side of the map, it means that the other side has the right TV (plus you can see their aura walking straight to the TV). Also, you can just hit and run before they insert the tape, less experienced survivors will panic run and probably will expose the location of the TV. You can farm STBF stacks 1 or 2 while doing this if you focus on the non-obsession players. But the point is that it should never be a thing, like the Pig camping the box.
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I disagree. It's a bad strat, but the point is that there is something that you can always do against it, and therefore it's the survivors' fault for failing to deconstruct it. It's like NOED - dumb or bold survivors will get themselves killed rushing in for the save without dealing with the bone, smart survivors will snap to their roles and locate it, or recognize when the only thing they can do is leave. Both Basement Bubba and boxblocker Pig removed the choice aspect by making an effectively unwinnable situation, and that needs/needed change. But this is not that kind of situation.
A Sadako doing this against any survivor who knows how Sadako works is going to waste several minutes getting a single hook and allowing 3-5 gens to pop to no gain. It's a bad strat, and virtually nobody does it because it's a bad strat. It'll stomp newbies, sure, but so does virtually everything; you don't need to play AFK Sadako for that. This doesn't need addressing, and we certainly don't need to nerf one of the weakest killers in the game.
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
I disagree. You claim that this is a dumb strategy, and say that it doesn't take the counter possibility. But, what you don't mention is the fact that once Sadako knows it, it is basically over. You can force condemn Moris with that strategy, and there are many YouTube videos showing it. I personally saw this strategy taking place in a game this morning, I had to flashlight click and teabag the killer to avoid the mori. I had to body block with other two players to avoid a insta kill of a teammate that wasn't even hooked. Sadako misplayed to kill the guy, but she got 2 hooks as a reward of our body blocks. So, yeah, it is a pretty lame and unfair gameplay.
Video link of this strategy:
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What do you mean, once Sadako knows it, it's over? You literally just walk through her. I haven't got the slightest idea what you mean about needing to click and tbag her, because a.) if the Sadako fell for it and left the box, she's dumb, and b.) again, why did you not walk into her. She has to hit you twice to down you. You lose collision on the first hit and have time to insert the tape. If she has more than one stack of STBFL, either you or your teammates have been screwing around and taking unnecessary hits. If she has 3 stacks of Devour, she hasn't been AFK all game. If she has Haunted Grounds, that was a team error. And if she has Rancor/NOED, you virtually already won the game while she loafed around doing nothing and just need to loop her M1 butt for 30 seconds while your teammates open a gate and come to escort you/do a bone. And if none of these things apply... that's all I can think of off the top of my head why you would not be able to literally ignore her and tank a hit.
I don't use these words much, but this is genuinely a skill issue. It's like getting grabbed by a killer at the hook because you full sent it the first time. You learn to spam grabs. Done. Issue solved. There is a clean solution to this and it always works as long as you don't faff around and give the killer power that they don't have by default. You cannot force a condemn mori by AFKing if the survivor knows what to do, unless their teammates were idiots. I suppose it's also a problem if you only try and go for the TV when you're at 7 and a half stacks of Condemned, and you haven't yet identified what Sadako is doing, but that is also a survivor screw-up because you shouldn't leave those kinds of status effects to the last minute.
It's bad gameplay, but it's easily taken apart. And yeah, bodyblocking is another way you can save your teammates once you recognize what she's up to, including escorting them to the TV. This is not an issue compared to some of the other strats (such as Sadako using her phase to make people unhookable, which I think is patched? But that was actually a problem, because you legitimately couldn't do anything.)
I wouldn't have an issue with changing how Sadako works, given that her entire power is gated by her terribly implemented mori system and I'd like them to change that, but the fact that you want a bottom five killer outright nerfed over a frankly pitiful and ineffective strat is just... no.
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You've got 1 niche way of playing her, the only thing that works, because she sure as heck can't chase like normal and win, and you want to take that away?
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Unless you have STBFL, you have enough time to insert the tape between hits. I've seen it done. If you're healthy but Condemned and Sadako is on you it's probably your best chance to not get moried
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When I say to nerf her, I mean to remove this possibility. She can harass a target, build condemn, and body block the TV if she knows that this one is the right one. If your teammates body block her, she may build STBL stacks, then use that in her favor to prevent you from inserting the tape.
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Tell me how you know the tv you are blocking is the right one?
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It's not even that. The force condemn strat involves teleporting around wildly and doing mass hit and run with that one iri that turns TVs back on, IIRC. That or Ring Drawing, the start-out-with-a-tape purple, and slugging. This is just dollar store AFK Pig, if Jigsaw boxes took two seconds to search and didn't kill you on their own. You'd be lucky to get more than a 1k doing this.
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So basically, you're saying to buff nurse?
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Watch the video.
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You actually do if she doesn't have STBFL
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What do you mean? After the previous update killers were buffed, STFL is incredibly stronger than ever, they break pallets, gens, faster, and you still complain that this strategy is the only viable/fun way to play her? 🤔
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Isn't it like 200 seconds for a full condemnation with the purple addon? Either way it takes SO long that when they do the other TV's you'll most likely not kill anyone because thats a 1-6 chance for it to happen and they could just hide while their other teammates crank out gens.
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Nurse needs to be reworked to be easier to play on console too. About her blinks, yeah, she need to be nerfed.
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Again, that was your team screwing up by engaging Sadako when they didn't have any reason to. Bodyblocking at that stage is pointless because as long as Sadako doesn't hit the person who needs to touch the TV, you're achieving less than nothing. I know you can't control what your team is doing unless you're in a SWF, but once your team starts making dumb plays that feed a killer, it stops being "this situation is OP" and starts being "my team got me killed." Which, if it's a situation where the killer only gets a 1k, isn't all that noteworthy.
My problem with the nerf is that while her Condemn mechanic generally sucks and doesn't do anything unless you really brute force it (or end up on 1 of like 3 possible maps that are small enough), the fact that survivors need to run to a specific TV does create pressure that would not exist if they could access any TV, or if they couldn't be required to go to a TV she is near. She can and does benefit from this at times she's playing perfectly normally.
There's all kinds of weird scummy strategies killers can use, but generally they don't become problems unless they're effective at killing and people start using them because it's an easy way to get results. AFK Pig was popular because you could literally AFK and get kills. All you had to do was move to a box at the start, and you could go, boil pasta, and come back to a 2K. This is more like Basement Bubba, where you spend a long time doing nothing at all and that's boring for everyone, but you still need to go and win chases in order to get kills. And this gimmick is way less effective than Basement Bubba at getting team wipes.
Actually, now that I think about it, Bubba is better at this strat in every single way. It's the exact same issue - you get downed once and you're out of the game. Except Bubba can do it to anyone whenever he feels like it, can quick-break pallets, can't be bodyblocked except when he's carrying, and has a readily available instadown. Sadako needs to use a rare addon, has to wait for most of the match before she's allowed to start chasing one specific person as a powerless M1 killer, and that person may be across the map and can give her the runaround and reach the TV while she heads over to a killer instinct prompt, in addition to the whole 'lol noclip' thing.
This strat isn't going to take off. It's way too weak.
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That's a good point btw. I loved our discussion about this topic. Hmmm, but I believe that sadako should have this feature somehow changed. I play solo queue almost all the time, so it seems that I am powerless most of the time btw. Anyway, great conversation.
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First of all I don't think that needs to be fixed cause it's so incredibly niche and needs set up not like it was with pig. And second how would you even change that? With pig it was the problem that you have four survs and and four boxes and as a surv you need to find out wich box is the right one so it was easy to make a change and say here is one more box and you lose the trap after x boxes no matter what. TVs work differently you know wich TV is the right you cant try to use another one and if you change that so you could try other TVs till you succeed it would kill that part of her power once and for all wich is already super weak
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Congratulations you have achieved the status of Hill to Die On. I have faced the same kind of Sadoko player and still turned my tape in, I just take the first hit and turn it in during cool down.
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If you don't believe me, just listen to one of the fog whispers...
https://youtu.be/pwWOgwYhcws
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Just don't get the tape since it's meaningless anyway.
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But then we die in seven days!
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That's a very unlikely situation to happen though. I've never had that happen to me, that just sounds like bad luck.
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All I'm hearing from you is that you want nurse to be buffed
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The video and the Pig situation are not the same. The Pig was able to fully prevent you from taking off the helmet if RNG chose that box at the beginning of the game. Sadako does not have the same situation. If she is standing there blocking the TV you need to get to try the Pig strat, you are not exposed and the time it takes to get the tape into the tape deck is shorter than the time between hits, 2 seconds compared to 2.7. You bring up STBFL but that requires her to hit people prior to blocking the TV meaning you have the opportunity to get it in because even if youre not the obsession she needs more than one stack of STBFL to get the second hit before you place it in the TV. So at best she can get a hook out of it, for a huge time sink and a chance at 0 value.
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You literally forgot to mention that even Otz himself says that this isn't ideal and it might not work. Maybe watch his streams where he explains exactly what can go wrong with this strategy. What do you expect Sadako players to do instead? Magically turn into Nurse and start teleporting while in chase? She already is horribly weak and she has nothing to make you go down in 1 hit so you DO have enough time to insert the tape anyway. STBFL is not a perk that works from the get go. You have to do something for it first. If you have a problem with the only viable strategy on a killer that has nothing else going for them and that is not even a guaranteed kill even in the best case scenario you need to learn how to play survivor and how to play against it. Ima give you the same advice I get from people that stack the best perks, items and map offerings and beat me with a meme build before proceeding to teabag in the exit gates like their families's lives depend on it.
Git gud.
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This gameplay should not allow even the slightest opportunity to body block TV's from being used. If you play against the pig and she body blocks, you can go to another TV. Likewise, the same should happen if Sadako stands in front of a TV just to build up your condemned. It should happen the following:
If Sadako stands for 5 seconds within 0.5 meters from any TV, she would demanifest immediately after it, so survivors could insert the tape without a problem.
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Hahaha no, nurse should be rework for console players and nerfed her double range add-ons
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Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I don't like the idea of the killer body blocking something like Pig or sadako can do to build up a way to kill you faster. I mean, I know that this is rare, but it should not happen.
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..
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It definitely shouldn't, I'd ask if it was reportable but it's not like reporting does anything anyway. I don't think it's reportable though since the trap does eventually go off and the game ends or you could be killed by Sadako by condemnation. It just sucks if it does happen.
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She actually needs a buff shes so weak lmao like why would you say she needs a nerf? lol
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I agree with you. I mean, it just need a slightly change in her mechanic. Nothing too much punitive.
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I am down for a buff, if that feature is properly addressed. She could expose survivors when they are condemned (don't show their location tho), but only mori them if they are dead on hook (like pyramid head).
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This is more fair than any other killer camping you to death or tunneling you out of the game. And that is more fair than going against squads that literally win the game in under 4 minutes by the power of toolboxes and Prove Thyself. Nah mate. You see an unfair advantage where everyone else sees a sad little girl that honestly would rather go back in the well than getting a nerf. How exactly do you expect Sadako to be played? Running after a survivor like a little puppy desperate for some quality time in the basement is more Bubba's thing. Running through survivors in the blink of an eye while leaving them on the ground is more of a Blight thing. The point is: It's her ONE AND ONLY niche. In a normal game she can't compete. She doesn't have one of those special abilities that allow her to do things efficient or slow down survivors or help her in chase. Until something like this is added I can only assume that this Condemned play style is the way BHVR imagined her to be played. Nerfing the arguably weakest killer in the game is never a good idea.
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The name of it is tunneling a player to death by exploitation of a game feature, and, yes, that problematic.
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No, it's not.
She got a buff. A pretty nice one, actually.
I'm completely in favor of buffing Sadako.
Because it...sort of is.
She feels like an early beta version of Dredge.
Without this strategy, unless you're on a very small map, Condemn may as well be meaningless.
She's also the only remaining killer with a mandatory brown addon.
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"Exploit" would mean it's not intended. But since they designed Sadako and her addons specifically in this way I don't believe that. The more I think about it the more sense it makes that this actually is the way Sadako should be played. Her condemned status effect is useless in any other setup and her power won't help with M1 killer gameplay at all. So what else can you do?
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Firstly, it is because they removed the mandatory action to search the last box to avoid the box camping.
Second, she needs to have this feature addressed before any buff.
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I dunno, this seems like a high risk, hit or miss at best tactic. I play a lot of Sadako, and I wouldn't even attempt it. I've never seen this attempted, either. Pinning down the right TV is so unscientific, and just camping one is gonna get you rinsed far more often than not. Not to mention that condemnation progresses really, really slowly if you don't force interactions of some type, and that once the surv is condemned, you're still going to have to go to them, which means you have to leave the TV.
I don't think this is dangerous enough to warrant any attention, certainly nowhere near the level of AFK Pig.
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"Not intended because she was designed like that" is just an excuse for something indefensible. Legion could moonwalk to get someone down in the past, and it was patched. So, it should follow the same fate.
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I understand you point, but take a look on the video that I linked here, and you will understand what I said.
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That indeed was an exploit. The difference here is that they introduced a new game mechanic that had not been tested before. It was not something relating to the killer and his power and addons interacting with each other but more so with a completely new mechanic being introduced to the game. Sadako got specific addons and a passive ability that were tested on the PTB that incentivise this kind of play style. And again this Legion strat basically had no counterplay while you can still counter Sadako. In this thread alone there is enough advise on how to do that. That was btw the reason they changed the Pig's power. Because there was nothing you could do about it as it was basically allowing a killer to go afk after 30s and still get some kills without playing the game.
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Sadako release brought a new mechanic to the game, the condemned and video tape actions. However, the way they designed it is so weird that she is weak most of the time, unless people exploit an mechanic like legion in the past.
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