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Tunneling solution
Perhaps giving survs guardian as basekit would help discourage tunneling. Gives the unhooked survivor much better chance to escape.
Maybe even make the haste effect linger a bit longer, or to really punish killers for tunneling have it persist until the surv leaves the killers TR. Ignoring killer's stealth effects obvs.
Comments
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Just make the Endurance effect last as long as it's duration. Makes the killer have to work for the tunnel and definitely would prevent it. If a survivor can take multiple hits, then what point does the killer have to tunnel, cause he's just letting gens get done otherwise.
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Trouble is if killers are determined to tunnel off hook they seem to really commit to the tunnel from what I can tell and will not stop until they get that person back on the hook again. Sad state of things really and hopefully there is some way to discourage the hard tunnel even more
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There is no tunneling solution, because tunneling is not a problem.
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Might as well just give survivors basekit DS, basekit Hope but active all game, basekit OTR, might as well throw in auto DH basekit as well..
You know what, take the gens away. All survivors should have to do is load in and open a gate to escape. Don’t forget the gate starts 99’d.
You see what I’m getting at?
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Here is a better idea survivors need to stop unhooking before the killer leaves , 90% of the time a killer tunnels is because a survivor unhooks right in front of them or before they take 10 steps.
So why wouldn't the killer go after the injured one and not the health one, a perfect example is Myers hooked someone popped tier 3 and 2 people went down trying to get rescue instead of waiting out the time like i did then go in for the saves,
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Some would still continue tunnel no matter what but majority would stop and that is what is important. I tunnel personally because there is no punishment and it's easy. Usually I try to play nice though as it's not rewarding way to win.
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Let's just make it all basekit, obviously
If you can't get to a decent loop with the haste and 10 seconds endurance, and then loop them for a decent while, that's a you problem
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It is. When the clear, vast majority of the community complains about tactics like camping and tunneling, because they are beyond unfun to go against, then those tactics are clearly a problem. Games are meant to be fun, for as many people as possible.
This game isn't only designed for people like you lmao.
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No I don't. You just sound insane to me.
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I don't see complaints from the vast majority of players. Just the survivors that either can't or refuse to work on increasing their skill level to counter the killers play.
When you say it's not designed for people like me...are you saying it's not design for people who play both killer and survivor, and don't need to complain about strategies or tactics employed because I can counter at any time with my own tactics and strategies?
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I see that happen sometimes but tunneling killers will often proxy camp pretty hard. So you are often forced to unhook while killer is near.
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I hope my words translate well.
Mine seem to be complaints from a certain multitude. The reason is probably as you said.
By increasing the skill level (or the ability to think about how the killer fights), the complaints should go away. At that point, the ridiculous complaints should turn into suggestions for meaningful changes.
All this talk about design seems to me to be about some people not being good at the game in DbD.
In fact, every time I see a discussion about camping and tunneling erected, I feel that many new beginners are entering the game, and I am pleased. There is no way to change the fact that the adjustments for them will be very difficult for an advanced demographic like yours.
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They do have guardian basekit
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So killers should just auto lose by going for 12 hooks against anyone besides brain dead solos?
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If you listen to survivors, yes. Survivors should be free to go about their business until all the other players have an equal number of hooks.
Survivor Lives Matter!
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I dont see survivors ask for basekit Hope, basekit OTR, basekit auto DH.
But I see killers ask for
- basekit Bamboozle
- basekit Noed
- basekit Crowncontrol
- basekit Corrupted intervention
- basekit Ruin
- survivor should die on first hook
- kill 2 survivors and Enity kill the other 2
- 120sec Gen
while they already have
- basekit 2 stack of STBFL
- basekit Tier1 Brutal strength
- basekit 10% PGTW
- 50sec Gen
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or - reward killers for not tunneling, not punish the ones who tunnel
so killers dont want to tunnel bc theyre getting rewarded for going for different people
then adjust gens so that killers can go for hooks without instantly losing
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Handing out free to perks to people is not going to change camping and tunneling. As long as killing 1 survivor fast remains the best option for killers to gain control of the match, that is exactly what they are going to do. Survivors are going to complete gens as fast as they can because that is the best way for them to win too. This has been the reality for years and both sides have gotten tools to counter both as time goes on. Look at what either side is doing, figure out how to counter it, then take the time to learn instead of complaining. Once you do that, the game will start to feel much better.
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This guy gets it. As long as the game revolves around finishing gens as fast as possible, then killers will do whatever it takes to get kills as fast as possible. But the constant whining and begging for the game to always protect you, is just getting out of hand at this point. If you want to make it so you never get tunneled, here’s the solution: play killer. Then you will never be tunneled and you also have the option to never tunnel anyone else either!
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Getting tunneled is cool cause chases are the most fun thing in the game! Sitting on gens is BORING. They should make them take 45 seconds solo instead
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huh
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Try not getting caught works for me all the time.
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Well maybe its not for people like you, if confronting in game tactics are so unfun to be game ruining. DBD has a bunch of these on both sides and they are pretty standard so... think about it.
Also "majority of players" is a little hyperbolic, don't go by the forums this is where the whiners come to whine and they hardly represent the majority of players.
What I see the "majority" of the time is people crying camping/tunnelling even when there is none because its a convenient excuse to pad the ego against loss.
Its easy to blame the boogie man of camping and tunnelling than just to accept the game outcome.
Same goes for how the "majority" of killers on the forum (and a lot of streamers) seem to play against non-stop SWF seal teams, as if they make up the majority of survivor players apparently.
They are some nice ego padding crutches that let you demonise the other side when you don't get exactly what you want from the game.
That doesn't sound like an in game problem to me. *waggles finger at childish player base*
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That's the thing with both sides some players will camp and tunnel from the start proxy camp is ok IF you know someone is there going for the save, same with survivors the perks and items they bring in can gen rush big time, keep saving someone you pick up etc but some survivors are not like that they would rather have fun then try and finish the match in 4 min.
Both go hand in hand how do you fix tunneling but also make it that the killers have a chance with out be gen rushed.
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I mean proxy camping encourages gen rushing, if you tunnel one player and the survivors are clever, then you tie up two survivors. And the other 2 are free to rush gens. The reason people dislike tunneling is because it basically stops one player being able to play the game, because the killer is constantly on their back. Plus it upsets the balance of the game. 3v1 is very difficult for survs if only 2 gens are finished.
The only current way to really counter tunneling is for the targeted survivor to be insanely good at chases or the team to be extremely co ordinated. Which you don't usually see in low or mid mmr games. Especially solo q. Plus if tunneling became less effective then matchmaking would settle itself out. Bad and mediocre killers who rely on crutch tactics like that would get their mmr dropped to the point where they are against teams they don't need to tunnel against.
These lower skilled killers will rely on tunneling against higher level teams because it's their onl effective option against really good survivor players. And lets be honest tunneling ruins the game, certainly for survivors, one player has a bad experience, de pips and gets almost no bp because killer decided ######### them in particular. Rest of the team has a much harder game. And for killer it's kinda boring.
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Don't give survs any basekit perks. Just take the unhooked surv out of the game by completely deactivating their hitbox for the killer so that they can't take any hits. As soon as they get fully healed by a teammate or they do a conspicious action, their hitbox is active again. In this way the survivor remains completely useless while the hitbox is not active and is thus no problem for the killer. Thereby tunneling gets useless without buffing the survivors.
Of course the unhooked surv needs to be marked, like with a white aura or something, so that the killer knows which surv is not worth to be chased.
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So essentially give them basekit OTR but better?
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The idea ist just to make tunneling impossible and to let the unhooked survivor decide when to "get back into the game". The first action towards survivors instantly means that you are "safe" and from there on the killer is able to hit you again.
OTR and BT basekit are just useless if it comes to tunneling, as this only means that the killer needs two hits instead of one. Especially when the unhooked surv gets the hit directly after the unhook, the effect is zero.
In general you can say that if the killer wants to tunnel, he tunnels. No matter which perks you run or which basekit perks you have. And this also means that if you spawn in a bad location and the killer gets in a chase with you in the first seconds of the game, like due to lethal pursuer or something, you have no chance to get the game back to good, especially in soloQ. And this is a no-go IMO.
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This might work but could lead to unforseen issues. If the player can't get hit at all then that means the killer won't even bother chasing them, meaning that you're completely useless until you get rid of that effect.
This would force the killer to go after the other survivors, but what if the unhooker hides and you don't know where any other survivors are? With how fast gens can get done, this will create an issue where you can't chase the only survivor you saw, and they can go to a safe location where they can meet up with other survivors to heal and go back on gens.
With the game's current state of balance, a solution like that would need other problems addressed before it's introduced to the game.
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Can killers get basekit perks to prevent bodyblocking, sabotaging and 99 gating? Or are survivor mains going to say not but these are tactics to help teammates.
Tunneling is a tactic to win the game, why is it so wrong for killers to have a tactic but survivors can have multiple ANNOYING might i add tactics to help eachother survive the match.
I'm not a fan of 5 gen tunneling not at all but when you guys say tunneling you completely forget that most killers have to start tunneling around 2 gens left if they have multiple people still alive. This is called building pressure. Is this not allowed then?
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We need to stop thinking about these things as actions that need to be 'prevented' via punishment. They're choices the killer makes, and there are reasons for those choices.
We've seen what anti tunnelling and camping mechanisms look like, Off The Record and Reassurance are the pinnacle, and even those don't 'prevent' camping and tunnelling, they simply make it harder to do. And why should a survivor be forced to run a specific perk to prevent certain toxic behaviours from the killer?
What's next? Make OTR basekit? Make OTR basekit but indefinite until the killer hooks someone else? Make an unhooked survivors invincible until another survivor is hooked? That's just removing player agency. It's a ridiculous arms race that just makes the game more restrictive, more sweaty and more toxic. It's this arms race that has led us to where we are today.
The reason killers camp and tunnel is because it's an efficient strategy. If there were other more efficient strategies, then those would be employed instead of camping and tunnelling. The reason we have so much camping and tunnelling is because power creep has eliminated all of those alternative strategies. For example, the power creep in healing perks, especially Boon: CoH, has eliminated hit and run as an effective strategy for most killers other than the two most mobile.
The only way to 'correct killer behaviour', which is what you're really talking about here, is with a carrot, not a stick.
Don't give me "they tried that with 6.1 and it failed, because it just made camping and tunnelling easier", because I'm not talking about general killer buffs. 6.1 was all the wrong decisions. They nerfed healthy anti-camping and anti-tunnelling perks in the name of 'shaking up the meta', and gave us a more toxic meta with Pentimento, Eruption and Call of Brine.
The only correct choice is buffing and creating more perks that incentivise not camping and not tunnelling:
Hex: Ruin - Required killers to leave a hook and pressure gens to get value out of it.
Pop Goes The Weasel - Forces killers to leave the hook to pressure gens to get value out of it.
Scourge: Pain Resonance - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook.
BBQ & Chilli - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook, and encouraged to spread hooks out between survivors.
Hex: Devour Hope - Requires killers to allow a hook rescue to take place.
Make Your Choice - Forces killers to go after the unhooker instead of the unhookee.
Scourge: Gift of Pain - Encourages killer to leave the unhooked survivor alone to get value out of it.
Grim Embrace - Encourages the killer to spread out hooks between different survivors.
This is the sort of meta we need, but 6.1 nerfed 4 of those perks and Devour is set to be nerfed next, and the rest just aren't as good as they should be.
Sometimes meta perks are meta for a reason, and trying to make them not meta just for the sake of changing statistics is not necessarily a good thing.
If they could turn all of the perks I've listed into perks worthy of being meta, then we'd have much less camping and tunnelling.
Post edited by Seraphor on5 -
So maybe make it so the survivor can't be downed until they either heal, or make a conspicuous action, e.g. working on a gen. If there are 4 or more gens left. Because getting tunneled early game is the real issue. It just locks one player put of the game. This way killers can still utilise it if the game is going badly and everybody has chance to actually do something.
So i wasn't specific enough. My issue is early game tunneling, hell I'll use tunneling late game if I'm struggling, but doing it at 5 or 4 gens is a nasty unpleasant tactic that makes the game less enjoyable.
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This doesn't make the survivor completely useless, as they can still move and reposition themselves around the map, and they can still receive healing.
The only way this would work is if an unhooked survivor had no hitbox for killer or other survivors, and they became 'fair game' for either side after they moved.
This would allow the unhooked survivor to stand still, and allow the killer the opportunity to go after the rescuer instead. But if the killer decided to 'camp' the untouchable, unhooked survivor waiting for them to move so they could strike, they'd be at a stalemate, while the other three survivors hammered gens.
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I'm sure you can see the problem giving survivors basekit perks and whatever else to fight tunneling will bring then. Killers that actually use it the "right way" will get heavily punished and many will start losing their games or even getting 0 kills at the end. This will just push the game to go back to what it was before. Survivor queues 15 minutes and killers extremely ticked off and bored.
You can't just keep giving 1 side everything and expect nothing bad to happen. What they need to do is to balance the game by other means. Like Seraphor earlier said you need to give killers more reasons to leave the hooks and not tunnel people. Right now they have none. Sure this will never fix the problem 100%,but punishing every killer out there because some like to be nasty isnt the right way to go.
I've been tunneled and camped heavily this week but i dont really get mad about it anymore. I die and move along. In the end its just a game.
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Yes of course there will be new problems but this is always the case when a new feature should be introduced.
It is not a final idea but more a fundamental idea instead.
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Like i mentioned in the quoted post, maybe just punish tunneling early game. Allows survivors the opportunity to actually do something and earn a bit of bp, before a killer can decide to essentially lock them out of the game. And basekit guardian just gives the unhooked survivor a better chance to escape and make the unhooker a better target.
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Do you really compare tunneling with bodyblocking, saboing and 99 gating? These are to absolute completely different things.
You are right if you say that tunneling can get necessary in the later game. What I want to make impossible is the tunneling in the early game. The situations where the survivor is not able to do anything against it. And as I mentioned in my previous post, this is not a final idea. There are still some things which should be worked on.
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Sure they are different things but both are still methods to win the game, are they not? Why is it that survivors methods to win the games that are quite often annoying and effective are ok to use but killers tunneling isnt? Again i dont like tunneling at early games and yes im agreeing killers should be given a reason not to, BUT i dont like the idea of survivors getting more and more perks as base.
I have lost multiple matches due to survivors good perks and bodyblocking, or lost multiple good hooks due to saboing so yeah im saying even though it doesnt sound the same as tunneling its still preventing the killer to do their objective and even win the game sometimes. Same as tunneling is preventing a survivor to do their objective and win the game. I'm still not here demanding forced penance or agitation or iron grasp to be basekit.
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Yes, you have some good ideas. Always nice to see when some people actually try to think forward.
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Those surv tactics are annoying but they are counterable. Bodyblocks are free hits, a sabo you can drop the carried surv and go after the saboteur. If a killer decides to tunnel you early, it not only prevents you winning but really prevents you playing the game unless you are extremely good at chases or you are part of an extremely good bully swf.
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Actual solution: change/add base game mechanics so killers don't need to tunnel to win against good players.
Then we can properly address tunneling.
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This kind of sounds similar to asking for a solution to the "gens being done" problem.
I mean I get that face camping is such a deviation from normal gameplay that it is certainly a problem and would be nice to have a solution for it, but tunneling? I don't think it should be treated the same.
When a killer tunnels, he finds, chases, downs and hooks the survivor, for a total of 3 times, all of this while the survivor already enjoys the recent anti tunnel buffs that actually make them a harder target than the remaining survivors.
For all this tasks the killer needs to accomplish the survivor has options and counterplay: looping and efficient use of map resources can make a chase last a very long time and heavily punish the killer. The combination of celerity, endurance and a judicious use of bodyblock actually makes hiding a viable strategy when chased right off the hook in many (admittedly not all) situations. I have done this several times in solo queue and it's the extremely punishing for the killer because he does not even get to down you after searching for you.
When the killer downs you there is also counter play. Flashlight saving, saboing and body blocking might turn this around.
All the while, at least 1 survivor can be on gens at all times, or 2 if the tunneled survivor can do with only one support.
At any point is survivor agency denied when a killer tunnels them. In fact the tunneled player might very well be the one who has the most fun out of the match. Pity the poor sod that has to sit on the Gen the whole time while you are being chased.
I understand this might not seem like it when the tunneled survivor goes down in 10 seconds after burning through endurance and celerity. It's not because tunneling is this autowin invincible tactic, the issue is other, deeper one, that can only be quenched by playing and becoming a better player through practice. But coming here and stating that tunneling "has to go" because it's a problem does not help with that.
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crazy, almost like killer got some slight buffs and many of the killers still get stomped on in game.
The game is literally riddled with posts of “survivors should get x as basekit.” The only time I see killers say the same is in response to a ridiculous request by survivors. I’m in the forums quite often, and I see most posts.. There’s no denying what is posted..
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I think you don't know what we were talking about. Please read the previous posts again.
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I thought Rebecca's perk to pause the timer helped with campers and tunnelers?
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I certainly do. Even on these forums you see constant complaints. But on platforms like reddit, from what I have seen, it's even worse.
I love how you try to make it about people's skill level. The big problem with camping and tunneling is that it's beyond unfun to go against. Who wants to "learn" how to play against something like camping and tunneling? People just leave the match, understandably, and perhaps just switch to another game. Some people clearly have stopped playing the game considering the noticeable increase in killer queue times.
I am more of a killer main but still think camping and tunneling are beyond cheap and bad for the game. And as far as I can tell, many people that play both sides think that.
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If you say so. I'm pretty sure I read it all, but was mostly answering to OP.
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You asked who wants to learn to play against strategies and tactics of your opposition? Everyone should want that. That's how you win.
You aren't going to win a single match complaining on the forum.
That's such a silly thing to ask....you have to learn to play the game in order to be good at it. You want to win by game design changes and not by actually being good at the game. Such an entitled attitude.
Also, playing against a killer tunneling is quite fun. I enjoy it.
Your claim that it is unfun is not a fact....that is your opinion and does not speak for everyone.
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Just all perks unlocked at the same time. APB (all perks basekit).
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Just make it more attractive for the killer to chase someone else and not by punishment. Same with facecamping / proxycamping.
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