Are known bugs Bannable?
The 2 main bugs I am aware of and I am talking about for example are Blight "hug tech", and the "infinite" (gen limited technically) flashbang bug mentioned in the patch notes. If someone on either side uses these can they be banned for doing so?
Both of them can be accidentally or purposely done very easily, without much clarity on whether it was done purposely or not. At the same time they can be used an excessive amount of times in a single match, making it clear the bug is being abused. Are they considered 100% intended/allowable until patched out? If it is bannable, do I need to record multiple instances of the bug abuse for the report to prove intentional instead of accidental use?
Best Answer
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No these things are not bannable. If we felt it was enough of an issue we have a killswitch that we can use now to prevent abuse of these things - it's when something is considered to be game breaking.
Whilst this was before my time, the likely reason is that it was being extremely abused as it was a pretty nasty issue - these days we'd be able to killswitch the addons.
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I don't mind if HagTech is gone, but is HagTech on the list of known defects?
Glitching is supposed to be knowing a bug is a bug and still exploiting it to gain an advantage.
W flash bang is on the list of known glitches, it was announced as a glitch. Knowing it (or rather, the player is assumed to know it because it is in the patch notes) and exploiting it to have two flashbangs would be exploiting a glitch.
What about Hug Tech? I'm too lazy to look for past patch notes, but for the moment, Hagtech is not up on the list of known defects in the 6.3.0 patch notes. It is a strange behavior to see, but if the patch notes do not list it as a known defect, I cannot determine if this is a defect. (Although, there are many bugs that we know about that are not listed as known bugs...)
If a player has been banned for hagtech to date, then it is a glitch, otherwise the developer may not be aware of hagtech as a glitch.
This is my criteria and opinion, but the fact is that we won't know until the developer responds.
The fact that they have released a list of known glitches this time is also a bit questionable.
When I have asked management in the past to release the bug list, I was told that they could not do so because some players would abuse the bugs that were released. However, this time the flashbang was made public. Perhaps they do not even consider that it is not an exploit to keep the W flashbang as a known bug and run with it.
Anyway, it is not consistent.
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Mandy posted in this linked thread confirming "hug tech" as a bug. (I don't know how to link to a specific post so I linked the thread and cut the image alone below so no one has to go back to that thread other than to confirm the picture wasn't photoshopped, just cropped from the thread. Her post was on the first page of the thread if it sends you to any other page for whatever reason.)
My question is more due to the lax nature I have seen around bug abuse in general, and wanted to include a Survivor and Killer exclusive bug to maintain parity more or less.
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Thank you. I didn't know you had mentioned it was a bug. I wish you would have put it on the list of known bugs then.
You are asking if both the HagTech and W flashbang are subject to a ban even if it was unintentional and accidental, right? (Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension. Maybe this isn't right either.)
As for me... When I create a flash bang, I hit a series of buttons after I get into the locker, and I may slip on an object that I thought would collide with the bright, so I would still be exempt from accidental occurrences.
But BHVR is taking a definite penalty against DC... because it cannot determine whether it was intentional or accidental. If consistency is maintained, they could be banned... That is the fear.
Flashbangs can be avoided by staying calm and being aware of pressing the button once, but I'm not a good blighter and I might get banned, so I'm not going to play until the developer mentions it.
Will have to wait for the developer's response... Sorry for not being able to help you.
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If they hug tech was ban worthy it would have been patched out in one or two patches or lilith omen would have been banned months ago.
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Pretty sure these are not ban worthy. If they deem it too much of a problem they can killswitch blight/flashbang - that’s why the killswitch feature was implemented after all..
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Bugs aren't bannable by any means. Even if you abuse them, nobody can prove it that it's a "known bug" for you. You have to know all the rules stated in the User agreement, aside of that it's not your job to know every patch note, or bug that is reported on forums, or follow the user section of the forums at all. That is not part of your responsibilities as a user. And every bug can be reported and eventually fixed.
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Generally, bugs are bot bannable.
Though it does beg the question why the infamous indefinite mending Legion thing was bannable.
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And the wake up bug.
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god that was frustrating
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The good ol' days when wake up crashed the game when opening exit gates or gave you 25% action speeds to everything at all times.
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Tbh buffing wakeup to give you a 5% action speed boost when suffering from a status condition (exposed, broken, exhausted, oblivious, blind) that doesn’t stack with multiple might make it fun
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I just wish both bugs got equal treatment. The Blight bug had a bunch of threads filled with people complaining that it should be fixed immediately, and that bugs should be fixed.
The flashlight bug threads are mostly people saying “wouldn’t it be fun if we could do this forever!!!!!!!!” What happened to all the people that demanded that bugs should be fixed?
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Wait, the killswitch can be used on specific addons as well? I thought it was only characters, perks, maps..
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It can be used on characters, maps, items, addons, perks, cosmetics etc
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As somebody who experienced Breakdown "enjoyers" when Breakdown permanently broke hooks....this Flashbang change is nothing. It's a bone to those weird 5 people who play Leon. And a damn fine one might I add, I hope it stays.
Bring it on, I say.
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I think the strength that bugs provide is quite relevant to consideration. "Hug tech" is closer in strength to the perma-breakdown bug back when, rather than the current flashbang bug. The breakdown bug was more powerful than "hug tech", but both sure as heck (are/were) annoying when facing them. They also both ha(d/ve) counterplay, but it is not enjoyable to engage in it. Also the value gained can be compared to the effort put in, as well as how often they can be utilized. HT (RMB+W+AimDown) and BD(get hooked) require(d) little to no effort on the user's end, whereas Flashbangs require half a gen each. In Flashbang's case, if someone got 7 grenades, I think the Killer has greater issues than 7 flashbangs going off in their face.
Another thing to note is that this is coming off of the nerf/bug-removal of Blast Mine. As far as players were aware, the old functionality was the proper form that was unchanged for over a year. The bug removal appeared to be a nerf instead of a bug-fix, especially since it wasn't touched in all this time (or even declared as a bug before being "fixed"). I think many people's perception is "lose one gain another" in terms of we "lost" Blast Mine, and now we "gain" Flashbang.
More importantly in regards to Blast Mine/Flashbang is that these are "meme" perks, and you could instead grab a meta perk and get far greater average value per match. "Hug Tech" is extra potential strength on the 2nd strongest Killer. This would be more akin to something like Off The Record (a meta perk) having the timer be glitched and permanently granting no aura reads and no grunts of pain until the gates are powered. Such a theoretical bug adds additional strength on something that is already powerful, that the opposition can still technically play around.
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No. I think the only thing most people are considering here, is "bugs that benefit survivors should stay" and "bugs that benefit killers should be fixed".
Blight has a bug that is in his favor, and an even bigger bug that hurts his performance, but you don't see survivors asking for both bugs to be fixed. They only ask for the bug that is in Blight's favor to be fixed.
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It is good to have an answer from the developer.
So neither of these issues are enough of a problem to allow for a major game-breaking exploit, so they won't be banned.
As for me, I would prefer a uniform kill switch, but if that's the case, I don't have a choice.
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I mean you can hold that opinion if you want. In general however, for the game to have a healthy result you need a 4-1 player base as much as possible. I can understand feeling outnumbered, but the simplistic and tribalistic thinking of "us vs them" from either perspective is very reductive, and ultimately self-sabotaging. People will typically advocate in their self-interest, so it is up to BHVR to interpret our writings with that in mind. When you basically scream "I'm a killer main" then some legitimate criticisms of yours may go unheard due to the how of the complaint, instead of the merits being properly viewed.
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Blight’s short object bug, has been in the game for far longer than his hug tech bug. On average, Blight’s short object bug hurts Blight far more than hug tech helps Blight.
Where are the forum threads, filled with people demanding for the short object bug to be fixed?
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I hope hug tech is never fixed. It’s a great thing for his basekit. Collision is a hell of a thing to fix, so I don’t see it coming any time soon.
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Do you mean how you slide off of traffic cone shaped objects? That is the basic learning curve of how to use Blight. If map geometry is shaped like a cone/triangle, then you can't bump.
Swamp maps are some of the most enjoyable due to varied height without RPD/The Game's oft complained problem of excessive floors, outer tiles often being not entirely worthless in the form of pog-logs, good balance of open and walled off areas for ranged and stealth/trap players (also tall grass and short grass aplenty), and it is the only realm where skilled Blights can show off their map knowledge, due to the abundance of cone shaped objects.
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I am claiming that Pale Rose, currently in 6.3.0 patch notes.
The main building, the ship, is experiencing non-vaultable windows and transparent walls on the stairs. This is the same as one major chase point being rendered unusable for the survivor.
I saw this as a serious game-breaking bug that needed to be temporarily kill-switched.
This is not a complaint about map design or balance... My apologies.
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Blight's camera view used to be a lot lower, and his collision is based on his camera view, and he was originally able to bump off of short objects. When Blight's camera view was raised, it created a collision bug, because Blight's bump hitbox became the area between his shoulders and waist, and that made him unable to bump off of anything that sticks out below his waist. This was confirmed to be a bug by the dev that created Blight.
BHVR spent months trying to fix this collision bug, because it was very clear it was a bug, and BHVR wanted to fix it. We ended up with a secondary collision system to try to fix this collision bug, but it never worked as intended, and it created an additional bug along the way. When BHVR tried fixing this additional bug, it created hug tech. BHVR was also dealing with a string of exploits that happened around this time, because every time they tried fixing something, it created a new bug or exploit. BHVR finally gave up on Blight, and we're still stuck with the short object bug.
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Gotcha, I haven't played that map this update yet so I didn't know until I googled a vid of that after you explained here. That's a fair reason for a kill switch, but also understandable if they decide not to since they mentioned the specific window.
Wait was that back when the camera was more or less groin height? So was the camera being raised the bug, or artificially lowered being fixed making a side effect bug as a result? Even then I haven't had much issues with using his power as long as I remembered the traffic cone/triangle concept for bumps.
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Blight's camera angle originally was super low, as if his waist was the ground level, and he was able to bump off of short objects originally. The camera being raised caused the bug, because it accidently raised his bump hitbox so that any object that sticks out below his waist cannot be bumped off of.
And the traffic cone/triangle concept is incorrect. It's not the shape of the objects, it's whether or not Blight's hitbox touches an object with his bump hitbox, or if some other body part touches the object first (either below his waist, or above his shoulders). The new shack walls aren't traffic cone shaped or triangle shaped, but the short rock wall that surrounds the new shacks do stick out below Blight's waist, and that is what causes Blight to slide. The same thing happens with some basement stair walls, where a very tiny horizontal board is along the bottom of the walls, and that causes Blight to slide. And the small trash bags, or other small objects can be any shape they want to be, and they can still cause Blight to slide.
The same thing happens to objects that hit Blight's head or neck, because those aren't part of his bump hitbox either.
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Gotcha, the traffic cone concept worked for me when I decided to learn more about Blight, and only went for distant objects for bounces. The 'too close to bounce' concept seems more like an exception to the rule. Even then when I first dabbled with Blight with his groin height camera, bounces seemed easy enough to get to work. It was just annoying on say Swamp and Autohaven maps to have the loop be taller than your character's camera, when every other killer in the game (at the time) could see over it. I honestly would be fine with reverting the camera change and the follow-up fixes in order to fix all the bugs at this point though.
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Originally, if Blight tried to start a rush while up against and facing a wall, the rush wouldn't happen at all. If Blight tried to do this while already rushing, then he would just continue the current rush.
In an attempt to fix the short object collision bug, BHVR added a secondary collision system, with the intention that you could look forwards or downwards to choose if you wanted to bump off of an object. This never fully worked as intended. When Blight pressed the rush button, the secondary collision system overrode the primary collision system, and if Blight was up against and facing a while while the rush button was pressed, Blight would get stuck running in place, and then would get an M2 bug where he would be unable to M2, and he would need to M1 to fix this.
BHVR fixed this bug by allowing Blight to slide instead of getting stuck running in place. They were aware they did this. This new mechanic was reported to BHVR the day it went live. My honest guess is they didn't want this new mechanic to happen, but they couldn't figure out how to fix the bug properly.
If BHVR really wanted to fix Blight's collision bugs properly, they would need to do the following things:
1) Blight should be able to bounce off of objects shorter than his waist, or higher than his shoulders. Alternately, they should just make it so the areas outside of his bump hitbox doesn't have collision with the environment, so he would just phase through those objects so he could properly bump into whatever is beyond those objects. For example, he would just phase through the short rock wall surrounding the new shack, and properly bump off of the shack wall that is beyond the short rock wall.
2) The secondary collision system needs to work as intended, and allow Blight to choose which objects to slide off of, because the sliding mechanic is intended
3) When Blight tries to hug tech, the game ignores the request.
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Absolutely incorrect. Pale rose just simply lacks bump logic in most areas. If you get hit at a lot of the areas of the map you played terribly. Pale rose simply just lacks collision for the most part. Like something you would never know without playing blight a lot is the fact that certain MacMillan trees that are nearly identical to the other have either 0 collision or only a very certain angle with collision. Now imagine that on swamp but it's nearly every tree. There is no skill expression when you don't have the potential to actually express anything. The map is just old and was never made with good collision in mind, that's it. Now a map like Ormond where there is very little collision out in the snow field, that can be skill expressive once you know about what has collision and what doesn't. A lot of the tiles in cold wind and red forest have no collision on any wall except the very end, which can also be played around once known. Yamaoka also has the problem CoffeeCrashing mentioned where most of the trees roots stick up, making your feet touch first and thus having no collision to work with. I think Otz actually mentioned swamp being a map that good blights can make the lack of collision work towards their advantage, even though I love otz he knows very little about blight and is not very good at him as a result. He even thinks dpi still affects blight in any advantageous way lol.
There are very few maps that are actually bad for blight
Swamp - very little collision to work around
Yamaoka - less collision to work around
Garden of Pain - way way too much collision to work around
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That sporadic lacking of bump logic is where the skill expression exists, where you have to know what you can and cannot bump off of, like you mentioned with Ormond. I'm confused how you can say the exact same concept makes it skilled on Ormond, but not on swamp. That is similarly the Yamaoka skill expression. Knowing what does and doesn't work for bumps is a combination of Killer specific skill, and map knowledge skill.
I do agree with Garden of Joy though, moreso because the visuals never match the hitboxes on anything in that map. Chainsaw and ranged Killers have no chance with trusting their eyes, and have to assume there is an extra 2 feet hanging off of each object in each direction. Strangely enough even the roadside guard rails appear to have extra height above them blocking hatchets.
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Because there is not enough collision available for you to actually make bump logic work, there are a few areas where it's possible. It's not a lack of skill expression if there just isn't anything around to make it work, I can know that all three objects around the tile I am playing lack collision but does it matter? Most of the time you have to go so long in the middle that the survivor would have to be not moving to actually get that hit. The short boat just isn't playable not because of collision but just how the tile is. The large boat is semi playable but any of the outer walls and the backside entrance of random garbage also has no collision., what makes it playable is the top area has collision. As opposed to Ormond where there is enough collision around and throughout the snow pile area to make bump logic work. The rocks on swamp also lack collision on some sides and again the trees as well. There can be times where rng actually gives you a setup that is workable in areas that are usually not, but that is a rarity. And with Yamaoka there is enough collision to work around that its fine, but often time's any tiles near the edge of the map that would rely on trees for a hit are forgone because you end up having to go all the way to the map wall instead. Though it depends on what is on the opposite side of those tiles. With that said all of these maps are playable, Yamaoka is by far my favorite and I myself am fine with playing it myself.
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Is this still relevant? I recently got a ban and the message i get on the main screen is "abusing bugs or errors." The only thing that comes to mind is me using the flash bang glitch for a few games spanning across 2-3 days before it got patched. I submitted an appeal, but the case was immediately closed and solved with no way for me to add comments. I'm just confused as to what happened and if the ruling was changed on known bugs.
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