One Thing I Don't Understand About The Kill Rates:
Freddy.
Pig's doing okay now, Onryo is coasting on a gimmick that will almost certainly get nerfed (rendering her bottom tier), Dredge and Wesker have some insane addons, Plague is a monster at high MMRs, Cenobite can snowball, Oni is great with a massive skill cap etc.
Freddy though...
This guy is insane versus solos and solid at high MMRs and I don't get why.
He's one of my 'easy' killers to go up against, his traversal has a forever cooldown and is highly telegraphed, his addons are craptacular and his anti loop is laughable.
Why is he doing so well?
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Dreamland, I can only assume.
I don't know if it's just me being.. me or not, but once I fall asleep and hear him coming, I feel almost guaranteed to run directly into him by accident. Everything being white and having the lullaby instead of the terror radius is really disorientating.
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I generally just run for the closest safe vault, pop Lithe and head for shack or something. The only times a Freddy really gives me grief are super tight indoor maps where he can poop puddles all over the place (new RPD especially) or when he's running a lot of instadown (MYC can be very scary on Freddy).
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While certainly a factor, I don't think you can attribute all of the Onryo's success to the condemnation gimmick. I think what you're seeing with her, and with some other low/mid-tier killers with surprising kill rates, is that the few playing them are maining them. They're specialists. And anyone sinking enough time into a single killer is gonna do well with them. Particularly at top MMR, where the players are just generally really good.
That said, I don't get the Freddy thing either. He has built in slowdown and some stealth, but neither are strong at all. He has map traversal, but it's pretty meh and you always know he's coming. I actually think Freddy is the second or third worst killer in the game, and even in solo teams I am on rarely lose to him. There's just not much there to work with.
Seeing him so high on the kill rate list was pretty shocking.
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Fake pallets addon could be powerful if your team uses too many pallets early and you don't know whats left. He also has teleport to so paired with call of Brine the gens will revert back to zero without a competent team
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Pretty much every Freddy I've versed in recent history does nothing but gen defense and his matches are drawn out slogs. But that doesn't work so well in high MMR - high MMR solo, maybe, but top MMR is loaded with SWF and I can't imagine that kind of playstyle working well against coordination.
Truly a mystery for the ages.
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Well there you go. The stats aren't reliable to what people are trying to prove, because we know that killers like Freddy and Onryo are weak at the top.
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Freddy has historically had a high kill rate, its probably because he is one of the easiest killers to learn and his dream world means he can sneak up on noobs quite easily.
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I wouldn't say he's doing well. He's right in the center for kill rate at top 5% mmr. His pick rate is 1.5% in top 5% MMR. Seems a few dedicated Freddy mains are keeping him alive. He's a M1 killer with a teleport. That's something at least. Really hard to mess him up, but no real reward for playing him well.
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People wasting time with clocks when they dont need to, or not routing well enough to offset snares effectively/not knowing how to tell dream pallets apart. He has a lot of counterplay based on efficiency and awareness, which lines up with his difference in kill rates between the MMRs provided. It doesn't prove it, but it certainly correlates, at least. I feel like it lines up with why you hear him get put down so much yet newer players feel like he's still as oppressive as he was at his peak. A lot of people have surmised that secondary objectives are a bit of an invisible constant factor for helping a lot of killers who are weaker otherwise, and I agree.
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He's easy to play, that's it. He also has very good synergy with the gen regression meta and is one of the killers that benefitted the most from the basekit buffs.
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Because I doubt they see how many dc/suicides were in those games. This is what all these "stats" font take into an account. And Freddy's M1 is probably responsible for 70% of those 😂.
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There're too many matches to go through every single one to find what happened
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games with DCs were disregarded for the purposes of these stats.
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I think it's because we're finally at a point where your own individual skill with a Killer matters more than their placement on a tier list.
If you are super good at Freddy, even though he has a lackluster kit, you can still do really well in most of your matches.
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The problem with that is that skill is not a constant, as this is a pvp game. The inherent advantages and disadvantages of each side will always be a relevant factor beyond just skill, while skill will always be just a compensation metric. Since its asymmetrical a system like this would not work, but as an example in fighting games matchup scaling is done with a x-y system to denote the average expected outcome of any given 10 matches if skill is not a factor:
if a matchup is 5-5, then it is declared as balanced as skill is then the primary deciding factor. If a matchup is 8-2, that means that the first character has an overwhelming advantage over their opponent, not necessarily that the 2 will never win (hence why it is 2 and not 0.) While the system itself obviously does not apply to a game like dbd as earlier conceded, the logic of the numbers being a starting point of comparison that skill then offsets does. This game is just as much strategy and tactics as it is mechanical skill, which is why its always important to take the two together specifically when considering balance.
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I thought they said Dc didn't count for these
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Even if they didn't, I doubt they went and checked how many people suicided or gave up. Those are way more common that dc, with penalty on.
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I don't necessarily think it's that Freddy himself is good. If someone is good enough at M1 killers to consistently win at that MMR, they'll perform within a few percentage points on all of them because they all play more or less the same IMO. M1 mechanics are M1 mechanics and game sense is game sense. In terms of Freddy himself, his short height and deceptive lunge get overlooked a bit. I get some cheeky hits because it's tougher to gauge distance on a short killer with an omega lunge.
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To be fair, I see more suicides and locker AFKs these days than DCs.
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But that doesn't mean he's strong.
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Pretty much this, also Freddy isnt hailed as the best of the best so people playing him do it because they like the gamestyle, mains who pour hours and hours into the same character tend to be very good with them. A dedicated Killer main will always play much better than the usual player who goes for the strongest current thing because they lack mastery.
Also at regular skill, tiers are pointless except extremely busted stuff and lets not delude ourselves, most of us are regular players.
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I have been playing Freddy, I think thats why.
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Oh nah, he is still like D tier, its just he is easy to play
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I wish the data weren't so simplified. To really reflect on this, I want some more detail. But I think it has to do with Freddy being able to influence the environment with his traps. They seem mostly innocuous at a glance but when they're placed properly they're deadly.
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Freddy was always a noob stomper. His kit is good against average- uncoordinated teams but he falls so badly against good survivors. He was still a mid tier killer at best against good teams even in his best times.
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I don't play him very often, but when I do, I always run something like Pop/Brine/Eruption/PR, and I always use the dream pallets. It's fairly effective, but I don't play him enough to raise my MMR.
The reason that Sadako's kill rate is so high isn't because people have finally figured out how to play for condemned (unless you're talking about moonwalking - was that ever nerfed?) so much as the fact that she has such high mobility, and it's the same reason why Freddy is halfway decent. The above build is even more oppressive on Sadako than on Freddy if you're using the brown and yellow addons that decrease teleport cooldown.
I don't think people realize what a big deal it is that you can hook someone, immediately zip all the way across the map and go kick a gen/injure someone and then pop right back as the original survivor is getting unhooked.
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Freddy's teleport is kinda underrated. The ability to cross the map and the ability to fake tp is amazing. Gives great synergy with gen defense perks. And combined with Red Paint Brush (which everyone runs), the cooldown is pretty fast.
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This is only tangentially related, but I'm almost sure after the kill rates were posted someone asked about Sadako and the devs confirmed that her kill rate was around the same for a while now and that the "gimmicky build" isn't really pushing her win rate much on that graph.
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I'm not really of the opinion the condemned thing is what pushes Sadako there.
It's probably more that her power is really easy to use and her macro, which is commonly not focused on by a lot in the community, is pretty decent. Same with Freddy. Same with Dredge. Pinhead's power isn't easy, but the box is a passive power that just works on its own and is incredibly strong. Pig's power is mostly passive and gives massive slowdown.
They're consistent and easy. It's actually fairly obvious that they are pretty high up when you consider that. It doesn't require aim like Huntress, Deathslinger, or Trickster. It doesn't require practice and intuition like Nurse. It doesn't require knowing how every tile in the game behaves like Blight or Billy. It doesn't require headphones and careful listening like Spirit. And it doesn't require aiming, zoning, and planning like Artist.
At all MMRs the easier to play killers are going to perform better. At high MMR, you already had to win a bunch of games to get there to begin with and it's harder to win against more capable teams with these characters so you're going to be generally more experienced at the game.
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That's why I think it's pointless to talk about how easy a killer is or how much skill they take, because simply calling that into question is kind of a cheap way to talk about, but not really talk about, how balanced they are. For example, "Spirit is easy to use, because headphones, therefore OP." but the moment you talk about survivors having control in chase through mindgames, they don't want to hear it.
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This one did genuinely baffle me. Freddy is bottom tier imo only better than Myers and trapper.
My very best guess is that it’s his low skill floor and survivors who don’t understand how his power works
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People forget that, no matter how strong or weak a killer is, ultimately the players themselves have some of the biggest influence on how a killer performs. Case in point is Onryō, who is on paper a "weaker killer", but in the right hands is an absolute monster to deal with. Also, as someone mentioned earlier, she has a different dtyle of strength and play, which is the slug n' curse style. That is much more effective than it's given credit for.
It also depends on the skills of others. For example, I am more than happy to play against a Blight, but I have issues with Pinhead. My Wraith is far superior to my Oni. Skill is largely forgotten in discussions such as this, and it really needs to be considered more. I'd rather go against a decent Nurse than Coconut playing as Huntress, or Otz as Trapper.
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I get all that, im not talking about surv or killer mains or survivor opinions its just objectivly freddy is like the easiest killer to learn in the entire game. His nerfs cut his wr a bit but he has always had a high one because of this.
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