500 win streak on nurse - balanced character
SupaAlf just got 500 winstreak on nurse, live, i didn't watch all 500 rounds, but recently he doesnt run gen slowdown perks, that means he played against 2.000 people (ofc sometimes repeated players).
condition for win is 3 kills with a hatch escape, or 4 kills after all gens are done.
soon someone will come here and say: "Nurse has counter play, learn how to play it!!"
you can't escape a good nurse for very long, unless you play with a championship SWF to even stand a chance.
Comments
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I mean, as someone else here put it, SupaAlf is an anomaly. A specialist with no regard for the opposition that has achieved a frankly unhealthy level with her.
But the stuff he and others pull off shouldn't be a thing.
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The nurse is the most powerful killer, so the result is only natural when played by players who fully understand and can use the nurse.
You should consider nerfing the nurse...
But if everyone had a 500 win streak, the kill rate would be 90%-100%, in which case I could have nerfed it without thinking about it.
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Alf himself said to a random commenter that no character should have a 500 win streak in any game - so even he knows Nurse needs a nerf.
Nurse was my main killer and in the last week after always denying this, I have had to admit that she does need some kind of nerf as even noobs are destroying on her in solo queue.
Their ground up re-code to fix her made her too easy to play against the average survivor and sadly I cant really argue that Sally doesn't need a nerf as the situation is getting a bit ridiculous.
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i knew this kind of comment would come up, but theres a big big fail with your logic, alf is a great player, so what about the 2,000 survivors that played against him ? out of 500 different teams, not a single one could beat him ? im sure he faced many SWFs, and even championship players, how do you explain that ? if nurse was balanced, he would've lost at some point, even a 2k was considered a defeat, and not a single team out of 500 could escape with 2 survivors, this alone shows OP nurse is, how broken it is, no other killer is remotely strong as nurse
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the commenter was me, i asked his opinion, and he said no character should be able to do something like this.
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While I see your point... can this be done with Blight? Spirit? Artist? Oni? Huntress? I think the fact that somebody can master Nurse and never lose once in 500 games implies something's up when you can't say the same for someone who's mastered another killer to that same level.
Because my issue with Nurse was always that your ability to do anything in chase is entirely dependent on the skill of the Nurse. You're fine if they're not great, and you can still pull some moves if they're not perfect, but if they know exactly what they're doing, you have nothing. And no other killer is like that. You still have tools to waste time.
I know someone had an insanely long win streak with Twins, but Twins is a bit of an anomaly in that nobody sees them and it's quite common for people to have no idea how to verse them. And I can't remember if that was pre MMR or not.
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I want to see people claiming Nurse has counter play to play against Supa !
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your comment is good, thats what i mean, you can have some sort of protection against all other killers, even blight or spirit, you can delay them for a long time, the nurse however, no matter how good you are, if the nurse is also good, she will eventually catch up to you, and her power is too strong with barely any downsides, she can go first floor with a simple blink, while all other killers needs to walk a lot to get there, pallets doesnt works against her, the only protection is breaking line of sight, and again its gonna be 50% for you and 50% for her, or basically a gamble, now the best part is, even Supaalf himself said nurse needs a nerf, yet you have nurse defenders here on the forum, its surprisingly funny !!
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lets see you and your friends with such an unique knowledge beat supaalf or any other good nurse, like d3ad plays or otzdarva, lol, do you think everyone else is stupid and don't know or haven't tried different things against nurse ? you are the only one with brains friend, hiding from a nurse once she blinked near you, is something hard and can't be done by everyone all the time, not even with perks
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take a 4 man SWF every Team-Member has minimum 7k+ hours and are very well player, you will do a ez 500+ win streak (3+ escapes)
Please stop talking about Nurse only and ignor the fact that swf is a problem to
btw, i am a main Survivor with 8k hours, playing dbd for years but i play both sides and Im not talking emotionally but with years of experience
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SupaAlf is an outlier. You don't balance a video game on outliers if you expect to retain your playerbase.
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And yea, Alf if right there too.
I loved Nurse but I feel bad playing her now as people just hate her and though I should not care about survivors fun, I actually want matches to be enjoyable for everyone and even though I mostly run meme builds I feel survivors hate it. I send myself to Lery's with the matchbox so I only have one blink lol... but people still give up and I never tunnel or camp either.
Fixing Nurses bugs was actually a massive buff to her, as her quirks and bugs made her quite difficult to play well in the past.
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At this point I wonder how many threads the Nurse haters are going to need before they finally provoke a response from BHVR.
Even bad Nurses who can't finish a game don't screech this much.
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Hide and seek doesn't work with the abundance of aura reading perks, especially since Nurse is such a good user of them. You'd need a 4-man SWF so that everyone's on board with the plan and nobody's revealing group locations with Floods, Nurse's, Infectious, Awakened Awareness, etc.
And I'm not sure it's fair to say "the idea is that if the Nurse finds you, she can kill you", because... again, no other killer comes even close to that philosophy. Map design is based around survivors being able to loop and engage the killer for a while after they've been spotted. It gets especially dumb when you have maps with multiple floors and few access points between them, because that removes even more deliberately inbuilt resources for survivors to maintain distance. Imo, Nurse just ignores too much of the game.
I'm willing to call out survivors for trying to bog-standard loop against Nemesis or Artist and then complain that it doesn't work, but that's because there's other things they should be doing. Having no tools to evade a Nurse unless the Nurse screws up is pretty bad game design. Like you could at least hold W against her if range addons weren't a thing.
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Thing is, I am no Alf but I am experienced enough and I win pretty much every game with her. The trouble is the other outlier here is the average solo team and I keep seeing my random solo team mates get absolutely destroyed by very average Nurse players.
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Funny how in the other thread nurse defenders got absolutely taken to school by a commenter, and now they are all in this thread pretending nothing happened. They have no interest in the balance of this game, only keeping the status quo, and the easy wins their OP character gives them.
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I agree with you completely. The problem all these 'Nerf Nurse!' threads have in common is that they point to outliers. Balancing at the top is a poor strategy. I hate to kick them while they're down but look at VHS. They balanced around the top and lost over 90% of their playerbase from when they opened for Early Access. Balancing around outliers isn't fair to the other players. People should just accept outliers are outliers and move on to things that are important to the majority of players (I'll insert a shameless plug for solo queue status icons here).
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exactly, i don't hate nurse, i just want it to be properly balanced for fair gameplay, nurse with starstruck + aura reading + double range addons..
remove the range addons, or at least nerf them so that the survivors can at least run away from it
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Sure, let me just swap my build to Distortion, Iron Will, and Quick and Quiet once I see I'm going against Nurse. Oh, wait. All arguments about countering a killer should be with the assumption that the player brought generic perks.
I dislike stealth playstyles and I would have no desire to play out my survivor games with a stealth build. It's too slow and it never works out in solo queue anyway because I end up in situations where I have no hooks, my teammates have 2 hooks, and if I don't throw myself out into the open and take heat for them, I'm the reason the match flops. Can I stealth in situations where it's needed? Yes. Will I have perks for it? Unless I had an archive challenge, no. I'm going to bring perks that suit the playstyle I use against the vast majority of the killers on the roster.
I think we fundamentally disagree whether it's fair to have a killer ignore most aspects of the game and that we're not going to get anywhere with this.
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I found this one in a 5 second google search:
https://twitter.com/wimatv/status/1274229583928340482?lang=en
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what perk counters nurse ?
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Thank you. Yeah, SupaAlf 100% deserves it as does Hens and his SWF and Wima with his 363 escape streak. They also faced Nurses and beat them quite handily. I just mention them because the 'Nerf Nurse' people also ignore that there are SWFs that are outliers. If we balance around outliers why not balance survivors around outliers as well? BHVR wisely doesn't because it would make the game unplayable. Balancing around outliers just wrecks the game for someone so it is best not to do it.
It was Saturday evening which could have something to do with a lack of replies. You still haven't directed me to the comment that argues against any issues with Nurse must be limited to a tiny fraction of the playerbase nor how this invalidates the concept that you shouldn't balance around a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
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what were his conditions for a win ? a simple escape ? well just bring bills left behind perk and a key, hide until all die and escape, real question is, did he get 3-men escape 500 in a row ? so no... invalid comparison
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no one is talking exclusively about outliers as you claim, average nurses do quite well here, and the point is that nurse has a broken power, thats all, she needs to be balanced to fall in line with all other killers, keep the teleportation power but make it less oppressive, less OP so survivors can actually have a chance on chase
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So what about swf nerfs? Been many swfs going on huge win streaks but swf hasnt been touched?
You cant go off singular players, though I'd love to verse a no gen defense nurse sounds fun because everyone I see has to use it or they lose due to efficiency.
Unless we're talking about the strongest killer played at her best verse bad survivors? Because then yes the nurse should always win
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I literally posted the link to his twitter, you can find his twitch within seconds, watch his videos, and see exactly what he's doing. You can also do a google search and see Hens333 had a 290+ escape streak where 3 or more had to escape every time. They're currently making another run.
I responded to a post that invented a fallacy to dismiss a genuine argument, I'm not going to spend time holding your hand, too.
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If you read my last sentence, you’ll find that I still think Nurse is broken.
I’m just saying that using Alf as a standard is not exactly realistic.
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if you want to make a point then you need to bring the essential information,, your childish reply just shows that you can't defend your point, "go watch all of his videos and find out what he is doing", honestly this is so dumb, did i tell you to watch all 500 games from supaalf ? nope, i just said, with 1 line, what his win conditions are, you are just another eternal nurse defender, a.k.a. fanboy
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No problem, please show me the evidence that Nurse has a kill rate that justifies nerfs without pointing to outliers.
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I did bring the essential information. You invented conditionals that you did not evaluate to dismiss it. That's a personal problem. Again, I will not hold your hand.
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guess you are running out of creativity, your answer is so "strong", totally destroyed me, "im not going to hold your hand", this is epic !! lots of effort and intelligence into it!
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such evidence isnt documented, as its not that simple to read basic numbers regarding killer power, Nurse has the lowest kill rate and ping head has the highest kill rate, according to BHRV, does that means pinhead is stronger ? no , nurse players needs time to learn how to play nurse, while pinhead is easier in comparison, so people with lets say, less than 500 hours on nurse will drag the numbers down, while this effect doesnt happens with pinhead, the harder to learn killers are on the bottom, because they take all kinds of players into consideration, like a 10 hours nurse, nurse is 52% , blight 57% and pinhead & sadako 63%, yet everyone knows sadako isnt strong, pinhead can be strong, but not like nurse or blight, so even on the bottom numbers, blight and nurse are the only killers considered to be tier S, also the most picked killer for championship gameplay
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As a killer main I think its disgusting this killer is left in this state in the game, I feel bad for survivors who have to face sweaty nurses all day. Otzdarva already gave great feedback on how to make nurse more balanced, lets hope bhvr do something about it.
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Running out of creativity in the Xteenth thread to plug Alfs streak like it's some gotchya argument? You got me. I make it a point to spend more time enjoying the game than helping those who cannot be helped.
You weren't the first to try this angle and you definitely won't be last. Thankfully, the people who get skill diffed this hard don't last long.
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oh , please answer me this:
Supaalf, one of the best nurse players says nurse is broken and no killer should be like this
Otzdarva says nurse isnt balanced and needs changes
no major streamer has ever said that nurse is balanced..
yet we have you.. the super wise man, who says nurse is balanced, please tell me again, nurse is balanced right ?
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Hens and his friends did a winstreak with over 200 wins in a row, even had a restriction on to only use every perk twice... So I guess it goes both ways around, Otzdarva had a video about 5 madlads, the first of the two where he mentioned someone who did over 500 escapes in a row, and they just stopped at that point, because they really got bored out of playing like that.... I do think it goes both ways and the real problem is matchmaking just does not find equal opponents and puts really really good players with average or above average players together and thats how you get those ridiculous results... If Alf only played against comp teams he would also loose rather often I think... But they don't really play normal matchmaking and even if they did they would just mostly stomp on average killers as matchmaking does not put them together with people of equal skill...
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There are many options. I won’t list them all, but give you ideas.
Obviously an exhaustion perk of your choice (Sprint Burst and Dead Hard being the strongest selections), Distortion (if she has aura reading perks), Calm Spirit (if she has a perk or add-on that makes you scream), Spine Chill, Fixated/Self-Aware, Urban Evasion, Lightweight, Lucky Break, Deception, Quick and Quiet...
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Alf can say whetever he wants, hes allowed to have an opinion that reflects his personal experience (Protip, that is why it's called an opinion)
While I believe she is balanced (There, now I said it, mald away), you will never see me dispute reasonable calls for adjustments to her, because their is wiggle room for either direction. Her dead zones can be improved to help lower tier nurses, her pallet interactivity can be improved to give mid level survivors more avenues.
The only thing this thread is about is your tenuous grasp of outliers. This is not about Nurse balance at all, or you would have made a thread with suggestions instead.
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this right here is evidence of how you are totally wrong, i made many suggestions to balance nurse, and i said on this very thread we don't even need to touch the character itself, just the addons would bring her to balanced levels, like nerfing the recharge and range, but you are simply not reading the thread, or you are very bad at reading, which one is it
your reply is hilarious
"Alf can say whatever he wants, its his opinion
otzdarva can say whatever he wants, its his opinion"
"i have my own opinion"
whats next, are you gonna challenge albert einstein and say "einstein can have his own opinion"
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They can listen to them, even Otzdarva in his balancing video said Nurse wasn't in as bad a state as many detractors make her out to be (Edit: And some of his suggestions aren't downright terrible, either!)
As for the suggestions you made:
"remove the range addons, or at least nerf them so that the survivors can at least run away from it"
You want to remove range addons completely, okay what addons will you give her in turn? You want to nerf her range addons, how much? Give me the breakpoints. Demonstrate that you're not just losing your grip over one killer.
You don't understand how to balance, you just want nerfs. Like I said, this thread is about your lack of comprehension and nothing else. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you're welcome to try again.
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And BHVR should consider the data when making balance considerations. Perception does not always equal reality. The reality for Nurse is that she has the lowest Kill rates at low MMR with her Kill rates increasing as you move up in MMR and, even at the top 5% MMR, her kill rates are not out of line with other Killers.
Championship gameplay is, by definition, the outliers. This isn't a spectator sport like major league football; this is a video game and the participants shouldn't lose the ability to have fun because the top 0.1% can do amazing things.
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You're giving that guy too much credit. Nurse isn't a hard killer to learn by any stretch of the imagination after literally your first game. Main reason why he's the big "nurse main" is cause he's the only guy who can stand playing that ***** for hours on end and not get bored or want to play someone else. I bet many others like Hens or Ayrun or even Truetalent could be just as good if they were forced to play only her for like a couple days.
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i mean, you are just making a joke out of yourself, look at how many upvotes i got on my initial post, now look yours, i guess people agrees more with me than with you, how do you react to that ?
"Losing my grip over a killer", honestly its pretty rare to go against a nurse, and some maps does helps to play against her, like very large maps, red forest, RPD, or maps with a lot of tall obstacles or walls, like lerys, that naturally denies her power a little.
now, i will give some ideas that can shine some light on maybe how to make her a bit more balanced, you might learn by reading as well:
Chain-Blink
- Chain Blink Window duration: 1.5 seconds ---- > Nerf this to 1 second
Fatigue:
- Base Fatigue duration: 2 seconds --> increase this to 2.5 seconds
- Chain-Blink penalty: +0.5 seconds each ----> increase this to 1.5 seconds, to make chain blinking riskier and not be spammed.
- 1 Blink: 2 seconds -----> increase this to 2.5 seconds
- 2 Blinks: 2.5 seconds -----increase this to 4 or 4.5 seconds this will punish the nurse if she miss, and will give the survivor time to run or create distance, since he can't rely on pallets or obstacles, this preserve the nurse capability of going trough walls and up/down with the blind, but makes it less oppressive.
- 3 Blinks: 3 seconds ----------> increase to 5
- Blink Attack penalty: +1 second
- Heavy painting addon
- Increases the maximum range of the Blink by +4 metres. -----> Decrease this to 2 metres.
- Increases the Charge time of the Blink by +20 %. -----> increase this to 30%
- Increases the duration of the Blink by +20 %.
- Increases the maximum range of the Blink by +6 metres. -----> decrease this to 3 metres
- Increases the Charge time of the Blink by +30 %. -----> increase this to 35%
- Increases the duration of the Blink by +30 %. --------- decrease this to 20%
Another option would be to entirely remove these addons, and give her something different instead, like reveal survivors auras for 2 seconds after a blink if they are at about 8 metres around you.
give her the option to cancel the blink to compensate for the changes
There are many things that can be done to balance nurse while preserve her unique power
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Did you just seriously and unironically try to use number of upvotes on a video game forum to justify your position?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74fEUiMXCrA&t=366s
Watch this video from D3ad plays and hes not even using Supaalf build, he is running Lethal, barbecue, im all ears and floods of rage
no need for exposed perks, or gen regression perks, or even endgame perks at all,l this is how strong nurse is, now how many killers can do so good with a build like this ?
sadako can teleport, is she able to make it? no
Dredge teleports, is he able to ? no
freddy have a small teleport power, can he do this ? no
what about spirit ? nope
what about blight ? blight is the only killer who can do something similar, but still can't do the same..
take this into consideration
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Touching her base fatigue will make it easier to hold W against her which should not be a goal on any killer... she is already only barely faster than a m1 killer with 115% ms when you run in straight line...
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Yes, fishing for upvotes is not hard. If that's your indicator for a successful thread, you can have your win.
- Nerfing the chain blink duration to 1 second makes it impossible to even go over normal sized boulders. Sounds like you want a Nurse who cannot chase at all
- 0.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds chain blink allows survivors to simply hold W from one side of the map to the other without ever coming into threat of being hit. Sounds like you want a Nurse who cannot chase at all
Oh man, I can't keep going. It's all the same thing. There is no good faith in what you want. You're just upset.
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It's our fault. We shouldn't be trying to espouse any common sense on a Nurse thread. It's illegal.
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I think you're correct.
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all the numbers i said are just hypothetical, that shouldn't be taken as my final desire, i want the nurse to be strong in chase, but must have clear limits, so something should be changed on her
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