If unbreakable becomes basekit, what do killers receive?
Think about it y'all. If Unbreakable becomes becomes basekit, what are they going to give the Killers in order to compensate? Will they get shattered hope as basekit, to better handle the inevitable boon combo that occurs? Do they get buffed hexes? Hex protection? No one is really thinking of the bigger picture here. The survivors complain and complain about little things, but it only nets them more things to complain and whine about if rhe changes they want go live, but get upset when the balancing effect comes to bite them.
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New charm
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An unwanted finishing mori
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Now really, i will always say to wait until base unbreakable actually gets to live servers. For me, it is going to be nerfed, tweaked a lot before we are able to see it in play.
The devs said that base UB is still in its earliest stages
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Not to defend the basekit Unbreakable necessarily (at least in its PTB form, it needs hefty tweaking), but there's no reason to assume a one-to-one trade where killers must get something if the survivor side gets something. We're not spoiled siblings, here, there's no need to get jealous.
The basekit Unbreakable is being pitched as the solution to a problem. It's not a gift, or a show of favouritism.
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I'm mainly curious on the thoughts of what could happen. Either way, I'm interested in how it will disrupt the current metas and builds. But there's always a price for obtaining something that'll shatter the way people play.
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70% killrate
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This.
I play mostly Killer and I do not see a reason to get another buff. All that this does is to prevent a tactic that I do not use that often or that I can circumvent with relative ease.
First in line for another baseline buff are SoloQ survivors. They need some form of information. Maybe via a mechanic that at least shows them when somebody is in chase like we have it with the Obsession so that they can make more educated decisions.
Killer as a role is in a fine position after the last patch and only certain Killers (Onryo, Trapper, Pig...) could use a bit of tweaking.
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I, as a discord elected killer spokesperson, would happily trade basekit Unbreakable for basekit Shadowborn. Fight me.
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The unbreakable-esque change proposed for survivor basekit really shouldn't affect many, with the exception of those who want to slug.
So, should a killer armed with Knock Out and The Third Seal go on a slugging spree, this would combat such playstyles which can become very tedious.
But they're still down for a lengthy time, and I've ever so rarely encountered situations where survivors have been downed for that long as killer.
The change is to deal with an unfun part of the game. A solution to a problem. Just like killers got mini buffs in that one patch to deal with how fast gens were flying, by giving them tweaks such as longer gen times and shortened recovery from successful hits.
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Killers already have a 60% kill rate, and devs have been very clear they want the kill rate around that percentage. You can safely asume that, were the unlimited unbreakable make it to live servers and lower the kill rate by much, they'll make follow-up changes to raise kill rates again.
If killers need compensation buffs, they will get them.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the UB basekit a bundle package with the Last Man Standing mori? In that case, Killers get a win condition if all survivors are down.
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Beasts of Prey.
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It sounds stupid, but if Last standing mechanic goes live, kill rate may go alot higher than you think.
2 survivors, Dwight is dying crawling close to Exit, Clau tries to heal tech, tank hit.
- Old: Clau can take 1 last hit and both crawling out.
- New: any moment Clau exit before Dwight result Dwight moried, or unlucky enough if Clau down backward, both die
Huntress aim a survivor running close to Exit at range, and hit them.
- Old: there is a chance that survivor will able to crawl out if Huntress if far enough.
- New: Moried
Trapper with Honing stone, 2 survivors left, Dwight running to gate, Clau in chase. Dwight steps on a trap at gate, Clau down not long later
- Old: Dwight could escape from trap, dying, crawl out and escape
- New: Moried
2 survivors left, Killer forcing the Clau out for the game, while the Dwight dying in trial.
- Old: there is a slight chance of God RNG will spawn hatch right next to Dwight, and escape
- New: Moried
2 survivors left, Dwight dying on the ground, Clau down near Dwight, killer pick up Clau.
- Old: there is possible play of Unbreakable to flash light save and both of them escape.
- New: Dwight has to pick himself up and escape, or die if Clau down.
2-3 survivors down and crawling to exit
- Old: killers have to pick up, drop, manage hook play to get 2-3 kills
- New: 3K
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You can now repair generators =)
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OP be crying to his mom why that kid over there has more toys than he does.
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That's not how balance works, just because one side recieved something doesn't mean the other needs anything
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They get faster Queue times because nobody will want to play killer anymore.
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Tbf, that mini PGTW is...VERY VERY mini, and it's not an extra 50 seconds all the time, that only happens if one survivor is the designated gen jocky, if 3 survivors are on a gen at a time, it's an extra 10 seconds per gen, because they are getting done at the same time
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But what problem is basekit unbreakable solving? Slugging..which is a legit strategy. What this basekit unbreakable will actually be doing is forcing killers to play a certain way or they get heavily punished for it.
Now yes it will stop 4 man slugs at 5 gens but if the whole team gets slugged like that the game is gonna be over regardless if you unbreakable or not.
However if i down someone and there are 1 or 2 other people around ongoing i'm going to be forced to pick up because otherwise they can pick themself up for free. This stops me making the sencible option of attacking multiple survivors at once. Not to mention if another survivor is around and someone is under a pallet its a lose lose for the killer. either pick up and pallet saved or they unbreakable and drop the pallet.
All this change would do is make it imposible to pick up a survivor as long as there is someone else around under a pallet. meaning all survivors will run in pairs to ensure no one ever gets hooked.
I agree with OP if base kit unbreakable becomes a thing there has to be a counter to it that killers get else your just unnessesarally buffing survivors and screwing over killers (even those who don't hardcore slug)
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Slugging is a legitimate strategy, that is true. Following through from that statement, because it is a legitimate strategy there should probably be basekit answers to it. Additionally, we don't gain anything from ignoring the fact that slugging is supremely boring, lol.
Like I said, I'm not necessarily defending this specific change, it has very clear gaps and needs changes before it's ready for live, but it's the exact same deal as the Borrowed Time change. It's not a gift, it's not favouritism, it's just fixing a problem. Anything killers need should be done too, but they're not linked, one doesn't require an equal change on the other side.
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Unlimited unbreakable sounds like madness. Should be once per trial for all, not unlimited, imo.
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Maybe they decided slugging shouldnt be a legit strategy anymore, they do that from time to time, using a BNP to finish a gen instantly, using infinite loops and pallet vacuums were all legit strategies until they decided they shouldnt be legit anymore and they got axed (with good reason).
I also tought the new mori thing is going to make tbagging at the Exit Gates a bit less common (not much but at least injured people will be more proclive to leave).
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If you are actually looking for the serious answer
-An additional 13 seconds of required recovery time/bleeding out.
-A nerf to flip flop, probably unintended (because you get less progress for the same amount of time).
-A nerf to no mither (but lets be real this isnt anything)
-The ability to end the game quicker with a 4 man down.
-More pressure at the end game with slugs and people leaving.
Not saying its equivalent but its what they get.
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Killers already had their hugely killer sided update
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The new Mori system is what your getting. I like the idea of it, being able to just end the game when you have everyone incapacitated.
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Killers receive an instant win if they slug all four survivors...
Do not forget that the devs wanted the new last survivor standing mori, but they could see it being exploited by killers slugging every match, and THEN they added the ability to self recover basekit. Not the other way around...
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The unbreakable patch will be another killer buff, we have already seen what some killers can do with the new mori system. Sure twins is going to be miserable to play, but she is already next in line for a rework anyway. On the other hand nurse can end games in less than 3 minutes.
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All this does is encourage even more slugging though. Both the unbreakable system and finisher mori system has to many flaws to even consider going live. The unbreakable basekit will be abused to high heaven with combos and as i stated before the moment 2 survivors work together the moment one goes down under the pallet the other can distract the killer long enough for the unbreakable. or the killer picks up and pallet save.
The finisher mori will be used in a VERY boring way by slugging all 4 and just rouletting the survivor who is up. Any killer that knows where all 4 survivors are will be able to slug for the win regardless just with basekit unbreakable it will take a little longer. the result will always be the same.
If they didnt want slugging to be a legititimate stratagy its up to them to outright say it and make it actually against the rules. At any time they could implement a system where if the killer is just slugging all 4 survivors at 5 gens then its reportable. Better that than punish all killers who slug because it is the best option at the time.
I think the big issue here with slugging is to many people lump everyone in the same boat. You get shouted at for slugging regardless if your doing the boring slug at 5 gens or if your slugging and chasing others that are simply nearby or taking hits.
Bottom line is killers won't ever win the argument because survivors will always cry, likewise survivors won't win many arguments because some killers will always cry.
Solution. Stop messing with the mechanics of the game and let everyone play how they want to. Don't try to punish playstyles and let us enjoy the game.
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agree to disagree. If you refering to the massive perk change both survivors and killers got buffed and nerfed. It was kinda a fair update for both sides. If your not refering to this i would be interested to hear what you are refering to.
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Long term (so long as the way it’s implemented isn’t too unbalanced, I think the timing is a bit fast at 45s): better MMR balanced matches that involve more chases and downs rather than an inflation of MMR in Killers that tend to rely (intentionally or accidentally) on the time-efficiency of perpetual slugging proxy being paired with tougher survivors.
Oh, they added that weird Mori auto-resolve. I guess that.
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Receive the incentive to not slug
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It’s to prevent slugging for the 4k. It isn’t fun for the slugged person waiting for you to find the 4th.
Flashlight saves, SWF’s, Flashbangs, etc. preventing you from picking up. You have 45 seconds to deal with the threat. Otherwise Survivors played better than you.
Learn from the experiences it’s how you get better.
sincerely,
killer main
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They got this because they were underpowered before and the devs puts them where they wanted them... at 60% Kills (why no hook-counters?).
With more and more Metaperks Basekits for survivors, the killers will become underpowered again.
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According to survivors, killers already have enough, since 6.1.0 made the game literally unplayable.
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The unbreakable base kit thing, is just some patchwork for the new finishing mori... What do you want? Some game where you can slug everyone, got your mori reward and finish like that?
Killer got a lot of thing recently, but that's not enough? Not enough to have litteraly a new system for winning a game without any worries?
Think damn it
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Well said.
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Basekit unbreakable is a major buff to survivors that want to purposely place themselves in situations where the killer is forced to slug. Killers should only be punished for slugging if they have an option to hook the survivor. The PTB showed survivors purposely running to hook deadzones, or using breakdown to create hook deadzones, or doing other things to force the killer to slug. Maybe it's time to add way more hooks to each map, so killers have a much higher chance of not needing to slug.
The PTB also showed killers going out of their way to try to slug everyone, in spite of basekit unbreakable, because if matchmaking fails and the killer is way better than the survivors, then the killer can just slug people over and over and over and over and over, until they finally get everyone slugged at the same time, or until the survivors actually just give up. And PTB killers were still trying to slug for the 4k, and basekit unbreakable made these games much longer because the survivors would just keep picking themselves up instead of bleeding out.
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killer mains: oh no it's harder to hold a game hostage and make it as boring as possible for solo queue survivors who already suffer enough in a killer sided game with broken mmr whatever shall we do
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That corrected imbalances. Rather than creating them, and as you're arguing, warranting a buff as significant as basekit unbreakable.
Also, doesn't it make sense that killers have a 60% kill rate when many survivor teams tend to collapse when one or two people die? That 60% means that on average, occasionally three survivors instead of two are killed. This is across the board though, and not looking at the top 1% of players, which in a graph showed a long time ago we saw that escape rates exploded at that level.
Also, I don't think those kill rate increases are due to the basekit buffs. I think they're due to certain perks being disabled after the gens are powered - no more guaranteed escapes.
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.2 seconds
.27 seconds
It's only 50 seconds if one survivor is doing one gen at a time
2.5% regression is laughable
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I think if survivors know their dying teammate in the trial die the moment they leave. They will stand at gate to the last moment.
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You still get to slug whenever you’d like. Just not as long as you’d like.
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♫ what hurts the most ♫
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It's solving the problem of ensuring that hooking - a main component of the game - doesn't become extinct once the Finisher Mori comes into play. If slugging is all that is needed for the game to end, then why bother hooking? Survivors being able to pick themselves up makes hooking still a desirable option
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then if they don't want just slugging for mori then don't have finisher moris. don't see any love for that aspect anyway as it removes all other mori's from the game. I personally hope they never put the finisher mori system in place because i like the ability to mori at any point in the trial not just the last person. #Don'tkilldevourhope
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I was refering more to people tbagging at the Exit Gates and Killer hitting them until they get out, sometimes people stay there until they get downed and crawl during weapon swing CD. With this change if the last person (or the entire team) goes down everyone dies instead of crawling 0'5 seconds into an escape, that may deter some people from clowning around too much there.
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I highly doubt it will prevent clowning. Even with the endgame collapse everyone will stay wait until the last second possible to leave. That has always been an unfortunate staple and this will not change that
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I'm sure it'll end up being a new perk added to increase recovery time. BHVR loves to provide band-aid fixes in the form of perks.
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The basekit unbreakable at 45 seconds is fine. The 22.5 and potential to stack reductions should not exist/be capped to a max of maybe -10 seconds to the timer.
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Cool, so what are killers that rely on slugging going to do?
Oni, Twins, most killers in general in specific situations have to resort to slugging one survivor and going after another in order to generate more pressure or punish survivors for a mistake.
This basekit unbreakable does not fix hardcore 4 man slugging, if anything, it incentivises it for killers who can go for quick slugs because they can end the game quickly if they manage to pull that off, meanwhile soft slugging that is incentivised by the design of killers' powers is getting butchered.
Apparently, they are supposed to suck it up and not get jealous over changes that directly decrease their strength and take away another opportunity at punishing missplays from survivors.
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