Let’s talk about how Altruism kills
I play a lot of both roles to say: being overly altruistic is possibly the easiest mistake a surv can make, and a Killer can capitalize on.
just played a match as surv on eyrie where 2 of the survs were hovering around a hooked third while the killer was around. Giving him no reason to leave. The hooked surv died on first hook. At 5 gens because of this.
And this happens a lot. Just last week, I got a 4k on Haddonfield as GF because all 3 survs wouldn’t leave the hook. Survs think its cute but it’s just an easy win for the killer and a bad time for the hooked surv
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Altruism is killers 5th perk. Always, especially in Endgame. 1 guy is on hook and 3 at the exit? Of course the 3 want to save instead of just winning the game, because that would be too easy.
And then, because they are too stupid to do the rescue, the killer ends with a 3K.
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Yup yup yup who need blood warden when the survs are this dense? They entrap themselves
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I truly believe players who unintentionally throw games by not playing smart (being overly altruistic) do not frequent these forums. They just don’t know any better.
I remember when I would message a few of them, politely explaining why it’s better to take the killer on chase and let someone else go for the save- then I would get hit with a sarcastic “you’re welcome” or some other smart ass reply. I’m “welcome?” Welcome to what?? Only thing I was welcomed to was a good ole farm in front of the killer- that’s who they should have said it to.
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Feels bad man. I never message anyone directly cause Chances are I’ll get mad lol.
but I see ur point, I’ve come across several survs who would rescue me from hook when we’re the last two survs, and not letting me kill myself on hook to give them a chance for the hatch. killing us both in the process. They simply don’t understand these common strats. But its still always a “bruh” moment tbh
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Yep I'm about to get that rare 1k and then the survivor's walk in without being prepared and give me the 3k. I understand it because I do it as survivor, that's the most fun and intense part of the game on both sides. But end game usually favors the killer unless the survivor's are actually coordinated and good.
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Its nothing against the killer. We don't leave friends behind.
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Yeah i do the same in SWF. However, this boosts killrates and is not the logical end of the game.
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So for some players, (on both sides) that's the most fun part of the game. Whether end game or from the beginning, hook fights provide the most intense, fastest paced action. I've had many games where the survivors pretty much ignored gens and just played chases and altruism. Usually they are obviously skilled and experienced players who would know better from a "winning" point of view, but simply care more about the fun of the chases and altruism than they do about fixing gens and getting out of the gate. It's slightly different than bully squads as they aren't trying to dominate and humiliate the killer.
I enjoy playing against it because it is fun to a point. I wouldn't want most games like that, but it is a nice change of pace now and again. Also, once you know how to deal with it, it's almost a guaranteed win for the killer.
I think what you are talking about is a little different. I think what you bring up is what you get when uncoordinated and less experienced players who have seen too many videos of altruism squad play think that they should always get the rescue.
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Thats not altruism that's bad survivor paly. Survivors need to learn that unhooks aren't free. Yesterday i had a game where these 2 neas keep running at the person I just hooked right in front of me right after they got unhooked lime I'm not aloud to go after them because they were just unhooked. And another one today were this Jonna was hanging around the hook I was going to like I'm not going to down him because again they were just unhooked so they can do anything they want ans the killer has to ignore them.
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I think what you say is true, but sometimes when you're a survivor at the gate you feel compelled to at least try and get the save, because you've had people several times being salty in endgame chat like "worst teammates ever, didn't even come save me". ^^''
If the team was 4 people communicating, by all means, they'd just get out and take the 3E as a win with no hard feelings on the part of the person who died. But when the team is a bunch of solos or a duo and solos, for example, there's not really a collective notion of "win". The person who dies in this scenario often sees it not as a sacrifice to prevent a snowball, but as a betrayal from their team and a loss that could have been prevented. If you don't even try to rescue the solo who's on hook while all other survivors are at the gate, they'll be complaining on the forums in no time about their teammates being a (presumably) selfish swf.
That being said, overly altruistic lobbies have led to some of the funniest moments I've had as killer, namely downing 3 people from taking protection hits in front of hook while very obviously using Mad Grit ! :D
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Nothing wrong with an endgame save attempt.
I would rather try and die together with whom I was trying to save than just escape because I'm afraid to die in a video game.
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Altruism in general does not kill. I literally run a build around safe saves and healing. STUPID altruism kills. Swarming the hook, hook farming, running in without taking out NOED or healing up, these are dumb moves that yes, will get you killed. But even without the perks i run such as kindred if a survivor is smart and patient they can usually get a safe save.
Camping situations are a little more difficult to deal with if you aren't in an SWF, but using just a few braincells should enable two or more to enact a save.
Unless it's a Bubba.
You're on your own with a camping Bubba.
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This is a vid I saved earlier this year showing how Altruism can just end a game.
https://youtu.be/Ug5tD8rqEJ4
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In the situations that you are describing 2 competent survivors can get a kill from a killer who doesn't have a one shot down.
Greed is an enemy for both survivors and killers.
The main time I see the Altruism kills aspect is in end game when survivors try and save the last person on the hook. In my thought this isnt Altruism kills this is greed kills. They are taking a risk to get the 4 man out over the 3 man out. But this is also an enemy of the killer. I have seen many a killer lose a secured 1, 2, or even 3k because they greed for more.
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My point is literally abt overly altruistic actions that cost u the game. Hovering around the hook in hordes gives the killer 0 reason to leave. And thats bad for ur team
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U realize those are not mutually exclusive right? That IS altruistic AND a bad strat.
the problem is like u said, people think they can do whatever and its not like that. If u mess up if u get greedy u will get punished. Whether as surv or killer
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What do u do? U hover around the hook making the killer camp? Cause ur doing more harm than good if thats the case. That kinda thing kills ur buddy quicker.
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It's not that hard, right? The killer hits someone, the other person unhooks, and then everyone conga lines.
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I've legitimatly had a pissed off survivor say in endgame chat "imagine punishing altruism". They complained that it's unfair for the killer to capitalise on 'being a good friend'.
Post edited by Krazzik on1 -
I've definitely had a share of matches where I was able to get more kills than I would've because survivors were going for bodyblocks and flashlight saves instead of working on gens.
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LoL the killer will, and should capitalize on any mistakes the survs make. And so should they I mean ?? If u wanna win thats the way
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U should be more specific cause I was talking about hovering around the hook. And u replied with “I do that all the time”.
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That was a direct response to a specific user lol. Not to u. So u reaaaaally should be more specific indeed. Not me
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Yeah, if all three of my team mates are being super altruistic, I know one is usually going to be hooked, 2 are going to be downed and I'm going to be running for hatch. I do try to get people up, but they don't even try and crawl away from the hook, so the killer just basically babysits three people lol.
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See, that's the thing, I don't think everyone considers 3+ escapes a "win". Considering the game doesn't have a result screen with "WIN" or "LOSE" but rather "SACRIFICED" or "ESCAPED", I think what many players consider a win and what the game considers a win differs.
Some people consider escaping a win, it doesn't matter if 3 other people died, they are out. Others would rather let themselves die if that means someone else gets to live. Altruism is fun after all, and you miss 100% of the chances you don't take.
Likewise, I don't think everyone considers a 3k a win. I myself feel good just getting 2k, even if I still aspire for that 4k. The only moment I get frustrated because I lost is when I get no kills whatsoever.
Most people on the forums get extremely obsessed with min-maxing their win rate and stuff, so of course they'd play very safe, but the game is a bit obtuse when proclaiming who won and who lost, so I think that makes people set different definitions of what a victory is.
Matchmaking usually makes people that play for a quick chill fun game clash with people that memorize spreadsheets and have coaching guides on the background to double check in between matches. And that means we end up with people that take this game as if they were training to win a championship calling people that just came to play a couple of matches for fun "stupid".
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Personally, I would rather survivors try to save me, especially if I'm on my first hook. There is nothing worse, imo, then dying on the first hook at the beginning of the game (something you don't even get to play because of it). The killer shouldn't be a jerk if there are 4/5 gens still in play and actually go chase someone else. When they're that sweaty it makes the game suck for everyone. This kind of conversation encourages teammates not to be teammates based off what sounds like a hardcore camping killer (a toxic one if you ask me since there were 5 gens in play still). Now, I'm not saying that everyone should be there trying to save the person. There should always be at least one person on a gen, but that's hard to make work in solo when no one can communicate. And, of course, every game is situational but if I know if I got hooked at the beginning of the game and died that way on a regular basis I'd go play something else.
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It is both you are right but it's a bad strat that just happens to involve altruism. Saying altruism kills is saying altruism is implying that it's altruism itself that is bad when it's the strat that is bad and getting people killed.
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There is a difference between being altruistic and bots. Those 2 were bots.
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Wait so you do the same thing you're complaining about other people doing? I don't get it lmao
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Difference: I know what to do with the teammates. I talked earlier about survivors who gift the killer more kills thanks to no coordination or even worse, grabs for example.
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So you've never made a mistake in the save or borked a rescue?
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getting hookbombed out of a game by teammates that refuse to heal me, very common issue when getting matched with poor quality survivors. i think more than overly altruistic, most of them just want the quick unhook points, but it is an instant death sentence to the hopes of escape for the team. maybe they are hatch gamers just trying to sabotage the rest of us, hard to tell, but one of the worst and most common aspects of solo queue gameplay.
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in the first months, i made a lot. Now its more success than failure.
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Everyone makes mistakes, but there are people who literally just walk up in front of the killer too unhook. Like.... that doesn't help anyone lol. You either can't save them, or you immediately get downed and we're back in square one, with two people instead of one injured.
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