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The two survivors, too many gens to finish mindgame is stale
I'm tired of being killer, doing well in a game, and having two survivors left with 3+ gens left. Let's be honest, they aren't going to do gens. Chances are one will hide in a locker, rotating between them to avoid birds, while the other more nubbish player runs around. I'll find one, slug him so I can get the 4k (which i ######### DESERVE in this case), and then spend 15 minutes trying to find this ######### coward that won't own up to the fact that he got owned, in a survivor sided game, and he's going to exploit this bullshit mechanic so he can get a free get out jail card aka hatch so he can feel warm and fuzzy about himself, get a pip and deprive me of a 4k.
Well what do I do half the time? I just hook the first downed survivor to avoid this horrendous slog of bullshit. Why not? There is at best a 20% chance I'll find that hatch before him, so why even ######### bother? Its like BHVR does everything in their power to prevent killer feeling good. You literally have to just absolutely ######### body survivors, or go against such potatoes that it doesn't even feel rewarding. And don't come at me with these dogshit ######### stats about 60% kills I don't give a ######### what people are doing in Ash tier.
Since this is how game developers work these days (players make the game for them, because its questionable whether or not devs even play their own work) I'll propose a solution. When there are less survivors than there are gens after two kills (that's 3 gens for you number challenged folks) crows immediately appear on all remaining survivors, and are audible in the same way they are normally as if afk. Working on a gen, crouching behind a box, hiding in a locker - crows are present and squawking. When the number of gens hits equal to the number of survivors, the crows disappear during and for 10 seconds after repairing a generator. When the gens drop down to less than the remaining survivors (read that 1 generator) the crows disappear. This will adequately prevent the obnoxious stalemate currently in the game, which by all purposes, should be a killer advantage situation.
Killer is already exhausting enough at mid-tier+ level of play. When you do well and play a good game you deserve to be rewarded.
Comments
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Everything will be okay.
27 -
This is partly why I was against a flat increase to gen times. Gens were going too quickly, but simply increasing gen times across the board makes survivor less engaging and leads to situations like this.
Instead, there should be a dynamic scaling system, that makes gen repairs quicker when survivors are eliminated, or slow if gens are repaired without any survivors being eliminated.
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Convince me I'm wrong and I agree.
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You got 2 sacrifices, you won, you won the game.
Stop slugging the third and you got 3 sacs, ez game.
Playing killer is exhausting because you're being unusually hard on yourself.
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slugging for a 4k is petty anyways
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You don't need a 4k. A 3k is a win. Slugging for the 4k is equally as stale, if not more so. Don't be a sore greedy winner. Hook the 3rd survivor and if you find hatch, great. If you don't, no biggie it was RNG.
The 4th person getting hatch is not a real issue that needs to be addressed. Your ego just can't handle less than a 4k apparently. You're free to slug for now. But that's YOU creating the stale gameplay, not the game. You hooking the 3rd survivor and this tense "who is gonna find hatch first?" is WAY less stale but no you'd rather guarantee the 4k. 20% of the time is really a you issue btw. You're faster and have no need to hide, it's WAY more likely the killer finds hatch first.
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The hatch should appear only for the survivor as soon as the second remaining survivor is knocked down to the last hook or after it stays on the ground for 20 seconds , the killer would be encouraged to hang up the survivor instead of wasting time
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The increased gen times has no correlation with the situation the OP is talking about. What you're suggesting punishes the killer for killing.
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Hatch is indeed like the worst endgame mechanic they could have possibly come up with. "Got a 4k? Nope! We just let the last survivor out for freeee!" The only thing people say against it is, "They probably got a bad team" (Really? Every single time, we're supposed to assume that?) and, "It's to stop the game from being held hostage." (Why not make the anti-hostage mechanic killer favored then? Or at least neutral and not a free escape?) both of which are terrible excuses. My suggestion? The survivors don't want to progress the game, they get their auras shown, cross-map, without lockers or Distortion or anything like that stopping it. I have no shame.
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Winning to me is more than a draw. It's just become normal in this game for the killer to be resigned to 1-2 kills against decent survivors, or else they're "entitled killer mains." It's not unusual to want a complete win, not a 3/4 win. It's only in this game that it's the norm, not through logical conclusions or anything either, just "deal with it." We're not even talking about it being down to the wire, after all the gens are done, and 1 person getting out as opposed to nobody. We're talking about survivors failing in their objective and getting a free escape, for no further work, as a result. I'm not saying just take hatch away and show auras for free. Just make a better endgame mechanic than, "I press this button on this thing so I get out for free."
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Amazing. So you'd agree that survivors wanting to get 4 out instead of 3 is equally petty and greedy? That it's all about their egos and being entitled?
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Whilst I think the crow mechanic could be buffed a bit since survs can hide for ages in maps like saloon, in the situation where u find 1 guy with 2 remaining just kill one of them and move on you have won at that point.
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It does correlate, because this didn't happen this much before gen times were increased. Survivors feel hopeless if there's only two of them left.
It doesn't 'punish the killer for killing', because killing a survivor is still in the killers favour. This is no worse than killing a survivor weakens Thanatophobia. Yes it technically does, one survivor dead is one less survivor injured, but you've eliminated a survivor, so it's a net win.
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Take your 3k and move on
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it sure has. even with only one gen left nobody will touch a gen anymore because the time it takes, even on big maps, is not enough to finish a gen. Especially when playing against Wesker who can cross the map in no time.
the first person who get caught suicides on hook to give the second person the chance for the hatch. slugging prolongs this situation unnecessary.
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Nobody "deserves" a 4k or an escape. It has to be fully earnt. Nothing in this game should occur purely because a player feels entitled.
But I can empathise when 2 survivors are remaining with 3 gens, so they go and hide. It can be frustrating hunting them down. Likewise, the survivors are also trying to outlast each other, in the hope that they can get an escape, which is their win condition.
Unfortunately, that's the nature of the game. And whilst your proposal for crows to appear constantly if gens exceeds survivors feels grossly disproportionate and gives an unrewarding and undeserved victory, a smaller change, such as survivors which just locker-jump would get crows if they go from locker to locker within a set time. This would mean the survivors cannot just hide away in lockers constantly, and forces them to venture out. Or maybe reduce the time a survivor remains idle before the crows come.
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It’s just a game, why not just hook the 3rd survivor? There’s no cash prize you’re only wasting everyone’s time including yours.
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On today's episode of "Just Leave - Special Killer Edition: Just Kill": Entitled killer gets angry at the game because a win for him isn't enough, he wants a Win++ and it's not easy because he caught himself in a stalemate not hooking survivors for no particular reason.
Buddy, at some point you have to admit that you don't have fun winning, you have fun making others lose.
If the 4th survivor gets a hatch, it's a null match for them. They don't win. What you're asking is to have an easy time making others lose, not winning yourself.
There's threads upon threads of people 💩ing on survivors for being greedy and giving killers a 4k when they could have taken the 3E win. When you do stuff like what you said, you're being no different to them.
And don't get me wrong, the game allows you to do that, but you can't complain that the game is "survivor sided" because you decided to slug a survivor for several minutes just to get an Extra Super Win Deluxe XL and it's boring for you.
It's you. You're the one holding yourself hostage. You've already won. Close the game.
Either hook the survivor and take the win, or go play survivor yourself and get that "free" escape that you think the hatch is.
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"This didn't happen often before (6.1)"
😂😂😂😂
That's a great joke. .....Or just a straight up lie.
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Well, this post didn't go in the direction I thought based on the title.
The solution to: survivors are put in an impossible situation is - make the situation more impossible.
Honestly if it's that bad the solution should just be if there are two survivors and 3+ gens the game just ends. Or do you need to joy of stomping the last two who have no chance?
You also seem to misunderstand the idea of a 4k (talking about what you've earned). A 4k should be harder than a 3k, which is harder than a 2k. The survivors main strength is numbers which means they have to be given something to compensate to make the game still interesting as numbers decrease (in this situation, hatch). Something should be done when the survivors get to 2, but it should be survivor sided to give them a chance.
And yes, I suspect the Devs rarely play the game with the community (likely play it a ton in testing). They'd probably be a lot more biased if they did. While this is something we do for fun, it is their work. I highly doubt after a day of working on a game they want to play that games for hours and hours in their free time.
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Here's the trick to getting a 4K.
Use an offering that spawns the hatch in a predictable spot, meaning you don't have to do slug games. You can just hook and make your way to the general hatch location.
Close the hatch and now you have the EGC to finish the last survivor. The only time this won't worth is if the survivor is running Sole Survivor, using a key, or poor gate spawns. However, you will get the 4K 90% of the time without dragging out the game for ages.
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Says devs don't want the killer to feel good
Wants last two Survivors to be tortured and exposed by crows just so he can feel good
This is why developers shouldn't listen to salty killer mains. Or really anyone for that matter...since both sides (especially killer) really just want the other side to be miserable while they just have a blast kicking their ass. Just take it as it is, hatch is not going away.
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but like- why hand out a free escape to the last survivor? why reward him for playing badly and hiding? Giving hatch to decent survivors that were good in chase and got 4 / close to 5 gens done: sure! But giving hatch to players that didnt earn it is wrong - also the slugging wouldnt even be necessary if the last survivor would actually engage in the game which they are not doing.
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I stopped reading after losing brain cells from that first paragraph.
5 -
??? hatch is literally neutral. you dont lose as a killer if someone escapes thru hatch
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It's not a free win. Hatch escapes are counted as neutral in the game. The most a survivor gets out of a hatch escape is that they keep their item and don't lose their MMR ranking.
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You slug for the 4K because you feel you are deserving of a 4th kill even though the game isn’t done yet? Lool
Also you do realize that just because two are left doesn’t mean that they can’t still complete gens. They are just going to play more cautiously (a strat) just like you slugging a 3rd is considered a strat.
Just because you get bored playing hide and seek (when you put yourself in that situation by slugging for a 4K) doesn’t mean they are just afk. Nor does it mean it should automatically entitle you to a win. Funny how you complain about hatch being a get out of jail free card, while you’re asking the game to hold your hand and give exact coordinates for where the survivors are.
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Just kill 3rd survivor. If you manage to catch the 4th one, all well and good. Regardless, 3 kills is a killer win, idk why ppl are so thirsty for those 4ks. 9 times out of 10 i just let last surv go anyway. No reason not to unless I'm sweating an adept/challenge, or if they've been toxic. Don't necessarily expect every other killer to go that far, but it isn't the end of the world if a surv beats you to hatch every once in a while.
By slugging for the 4k you are prolonging the game unnecessarily. And tbh if it's annoyed you so much as to have an angry rant like this? Then maybe you're taking the game a bit too seriously. If a 3k instead of a 4k triggers you this much
Sidenote, finding the hatch is much easier for killer than surv. You have total freedom of movement and a higher move speed. Whereas surv has to make sure you don't spot them. The only time surv will have an easier time finding hatch is if they run leftbehind. Even if they bring a hatch offering, any killer who pays attention in the pregame will notice and be able to cut them off.
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20% chance to find hatch as killer is pure lie.
Considering killers can cover larger area due to higher movement speed realistic estimation should be 60% killer / 40% survivor.
Complaining about hatch is just ridiculous.
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I had idea for that, still Gen flat time increased, but at least it gives remaining survivors easier job if one tunneled out.
- The number of Gens required to complete = survivors alive + 2.
- Match requires 6 Gen complete to power Gates. 1 dead = 5 Gen. 2 dead = 4 Gen
- Gen drop to 80sec.
It would be like this, Dwight (1 hook); Meg Clau Jake (2 hooks). Have 5 Gen completed, they need to finish the 6th one. If killer hook either Meg/Clau/Jake again, one of them idea will instantly power Gates.
This will dis courage killer from tunneling & camping.
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3 out is a win for survivors,stop bodyblocking and fighting to get that last survivor out.You don’t have to be a greedy winner.3 escape leave the 4th survivor.
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Having the final two survivors hide in a corner of the map is really annoying, yes, but at that point there isn't much else for them to do. If they do gens they'll get found immediatly and even if they loop you for a while the last survivor isn't gonna solo two or three gens in that time.
BHVR just needs to fix their afk crow system so it isn't as abusable.
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Um excuse me, did I forget to mention that I killed 2 survivors (and likely scored at least 1 or 2 hooks on the remaining 2 survivors) before 3 gens could even be completed? Where the ######### is the entitlement? You people are absolutely delusional, do you even play killer bro? If I can kill 2 people before 3 gens get completed then YOU HAVE LOST. GG. NO RE. You have been completely and totally outplayed - I played an outstanding game. And its dogshit that once I have dominated in a game, it just gets thrown back in my face. For what? To make one survivor feel good about getting owned? They deprive the killer of their earned victory so someone who objectively lost gets to feel like they won? Where does that happen for killer? Where does killer get their feel good points when they get two hooks? Where is my safety net for that? All I get is people t-bagging me at the gate. Entitlement? ######### outta here.
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Except they aren't playing the game, had you read my OP you would know that. Had you been in this situation you would know that. They don't play the game, they don't go gens, they hide for 15 minutes and I am lucky to find one. I then slug that person, because I'm getting my 4k, so I can find the 4th survivor. If I hook the 3rd survivor then they suicide, and the 4th likely finds hatch. If you cannot even grasp this scenario then I don't know what to tell ya.
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This is the entitlement. Because you ended up killing 2 survivors early with 3 gens up, isn't really all that special. Those two could've been tunneled off hook/never even saved in the first place. Sure, you pretty much won as killer because they won't be able to focus on gens proficiently, pat yourself on the back and all, but you still have to find the other two survivors. Game isn't over until at least one of them dies, or they somehow manage to get through the 3 gens. They're not going to dc for you if that's what you want, and neither will the Devs program the Entity to kill the last two where they stand. Seek them out to get your "rightfully earned" 4k, because they're not going to come searching for you if they're only option is to play for hatch. Get a 3rd downed, and move on from there.
You're not obligated to sweat for the 4k. Just hook and look for hatch. If you don't get to it first, just take your 3k and go next. That should be satisfactory enough, and if it's not you really need to open up your horizons on how to have fun as killer, because obviously stressing out for a 4k is not it. If you're getting tilted, take a break. Breath. It's just a game, you don't need to 4k every single match.
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What if 2 have already escaped through the gates and then the last escapes through hatch, because hatch spawning after the gates are open is still a thing? The killer's supposed to guard all 3?
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So many unasked questions with that. You're assuming the killer is winning, and that they're remembering throughout the entire match that they have that offerings, and then they just happen to get their in time before the survivor does? And then the gates power, so you're back to square one because they can escape through those too.
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This has always happened since awful hatch was introduced. Gens taking a sliver longer doesn't take a survivor from hopeful to suddenly having all their hope crushed. They can still do gens if they want to win and believe they can still win, and if not then of course they give up and die.
Thana has always become weaker when survivors started dying, but with its current version, 90% of its strength is lost when 1 survivor dies compared to before. And that's a perk, not a game mechanic.
People who take killer seriously tend to stray from using language like "a net win" because there is no such thing for the role. You're punished, by efficient survivors, no matter what you do.
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If they don't touch a gen then they're cowards. Their teammate could be running the killer for 2 gens and they're just like, "Imma hide cuz we lost anyway." You're literally reinforcing the solos who make solo queue a bad experience. And let's get it right: Slugging is the killer's solution to their problem, not the thing that causes the problem. Y'all are getting freeeee Unbreakable soon though, so I guess that'll be the end of that.
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I didnt come to convince you, I know so sure I cant.
I just want to say, things will be okay.
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So on the hundred meter dash, which is also just a game, you just slow down at the end and settle for bronze, because otherwise you're doing something wrong? Why not take the whole thing when you've done everything right, up to that point, to do so?
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Can y'all ever approach topics like this without attacking the killer player's character or their supposed mentality/motivations? Is that possible?
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"I'll find one, slug him so I can get the 4k"
I have zero sympathy when I read this... I have to admit I will hide out of pure spite at this point as you are just wasting everyone's time. Just hook and most times you will find the last survivor anyway. If you don't? Well at least you didn't waste several minutes of your life...
I hope they put in some variation of the end game changes they tested as the slugging for the 4k thing is just plain annoying
2 -
You don't deserve a 4k untill you are activelly hooking the final survivor. As long as atleast one is still standing you have not yet deserved it
Simular to how survivors haven't deserved their escape untill they walk out of the exit gate/jump in hatch
That said, yes the afk crows really could use a update to prevent a survivor just being able to hide all the time
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Never ceases to astound me how y'all make it sound so simple. Why am I only allowed to sweat for a 4k if it's a challenge or adept? Who are you to say I can't try to get a 4th kill? It makes me feel better, just like the all-important survivors' feelings. And if it doesn't matter that much, why do the survivors tbag on it before jumping through, and why are killers made fun of for not getting a 4k every match? Always with the "You're taking this too serious" argument, which is just disrespectful and condescending to everybody who has ever taken a game or sport seriously. Just like another bad argument: "You find hatch better because fast." If the killer being faster than the survivor was all it took to beat them to hatch 80% of the time, why does a survivor get through it 80% of the time, the entire reason killers slug? The hatch is clearly coded to spawn where they're running or something, because there's no other way. Even if it's neck and neck, the survivor can just vacuum into the hatch from like 3 feet away, beating out the killer's close prompt.
And this idea that you can somehow know where the hatch is gonna spawn: tell me your secrets. I have never once knew exactly where the hatch was gonna spawn when there was no hatch offering; It's impossible, for all I know. It may have been a thing in old patches, but I'm fairly certain they patched it out, and made an announcement about it too, not just some shadow nerf.
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Even the way you're writing reeks of entitlement. You've killed 2 survivors with 3 gens to go, but you haven't killed the other 2. I've been in a match where that happened and me and the other both escaped. That killer clearly didn't deserve the win.
If you cannot catch all 4, you didn't deserve the 4k. It's really that simple. Common sense. Nothing left for me to add.
Except I hope your tantrum has made you feel like a big guy now. You deserve it.
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I had a game last night where there were 2 of us left on death hook with two dead, still at 5 gens. This killer was way beyond our level of experience. I'd played for way too many games, i needed to go to sleep, so I was just trying to get hooked but the killer kept slugging me and the other survivor kept picking me up. I tried sitting on a gen so the killer would grab me and hook me, but they'd just dump me on the ground and keep looking for the 4th. I'm anti-DC but omg it was painful. We had lost, at 5 gens, so just hook me. I just wanted to go to bed.
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Never said that you'll know exactly where a hatch will be. In my experience playing killer I very often find the hatch before the survs. Rough estimate about 70% of the time. And I'm not saying don't take it seriously, but you do need to relax a little.
Sure play for the 4k but if you're really getting that angry over getting a 3k instead of a 4k then that's a bit much. Not every game can be a 4k, tbh it's boring if they are imo. It's pretty natural for survivors to play for hatch when the game is clearly lost. And they'll do whatever they can to get an escape. Just like you do anything you can for the 4k. Can't blame them for that. I'd much rather just kill that 3rd surv and take my chances looking for the 4th, because slugging for the 4th is just drawing out the game and makin it unpleasant for everyone involved. Including you.
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You are just as boring as them for slugging for 4k, so i don't really feel sorry for either side lol.
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I feel your pain, I feel bad for the person that is slugged which is why I almost always hook them anyway - at my own expense. But that's bullshit. I played well, why should I be punished? People in this thread are talking as if I'm the one who is wasting peoples time. THE GAME is wasting your time, that's why I'M trying to change it.
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