So the kill rate is 60% overall right?
Which would include SWF and these hackers that streamers keep whining about? Because if that's true then that's a pretty ######### number ngl.
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Yep. The game balance right now is atrocious.
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Seems to be. Most of my games just end in death now. Dumb teammates is one thing, but the killer just seem awfully strong now too. I couldn't even reveal ghost face while opening an exit gate which led to him downing me in one hit and then trolling me. It seems like most of the killer's powers comes from bugs actually lmao, but solo queue is just impossible without some form of voice chat or fixed MMR
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I wish they'd never released that information. Nobody apparently read any of the caveats attached to it, that just saw a number and never stopped clutching their pearls since.
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I mean that's why I'm asking here, what are the caveats?
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Remember that kill ratio was with them factoring out matches with disconnects which are often 4Ks as well. So the rate would be even higher. No telling if matches with KOBE were also excluded or not which would boost it even more.
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Jesus I wasn't aware of that. I guess now I know why my games never feel balanced like the numbers they released suggest lmao
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I would dare to say if games with DCs/suicide-on-hook could count in the overall stats, the killrates would be close to 70%>
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Something like in 10 games 7 2ks and 3 3k is a 60% kill rate and they also say nurse is balanced even at top mmr and isn't even in the top 5 killers.
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You are not good at math, right?
Oh nevermind, you are a killer main and you just want to manipulate with numbers, that's nothing new.
7 2Ks and 3 3Ks is 57.5%. While 6 2Ks + 4 3Ks is exactly 60%.
And the nurse is not in the top killers, because there are many noobs who can't play her, so they skew the stats. But yeah, tell us some more killer-main fairytales.
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Also against Nurse DC are very common, and since games with DC are excluded from the stats. Also Nurse in the very top even at high ranks, most killer main attempt to invalidate the stats because there is a like less than 1% difference between kills, and saying well she isn't top tier killer, she has 60,5% while others in her tier has 60,6%-60,9% , so stats are unreliable
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Even at that 60% of the games are ties and the killer only won 40% of those games.
Except they showed her at 5% and she was right in the middle. The stats don't show everything was my point even at the top 5% stats are skewed.
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Kill rate is like 80% vs solo, 20% vs 4 man SWF. There's a reason why they never show kill rates v 4 man
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But suicides on hook DO count to overall stats. Thats why they are so bloated.
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How is that bloated? Its a legitimate death/kill?
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Got a source to back this numbers up? The last developer statement we got was that SWF increased survival rates by pretty consistent 5% per extra member, with a full 4 man SWF having a solid 15% higher escape rate then soloQs.
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Played wesker for a daily. All 4 Survivors once they heared my TR stood at a Hook. I wonder if self killing on hook wasnt somehow included (which is not possible i think) how the stats would be like.
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60% kill rate is still a 2K average on any individual game, because you don't get partial sacrifices.
Consider that the highest 5% MMR bracket has a higher kill rate than the global average, plus the lowest MMR bracket because newbie killer is far easier than newbie survivor.
So the 'middle 80%' is likely significantly lower, closer to 50% than 60%.
Game with DCs should absolutely not count, because those deaths may only have happened because of the DC. And what about killer DCs? Everyone escapes then.
Also, to speculate on why the top MMR rate is higher, I'd suggest it's down to SWF altruism. Games that for all purposes are not going the killers way, only to end up with the gates open and survivors trading hooks until at least 2 are dead.
Post edited by Seraphor on4 -
Numbers do not lie, but liars use numbers.
Certainly the numbers are true: 61%.
But there are those who cannot speak without citing this 61% figure or 39% in every discussion. I know that.
There are parts of the killer that should be nerfed and there are parts that should be buffed. Survivor needs to be buffed and nerfed as well. Balancing is what it should be.
The next piece of information I would like the developers to present is how many more novice and equivalent MMR players have recently joined the game.
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If you base your thoughts on that 61% kill rate, remember that nurse is the weakest killer in the game
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Not at all, just speculating based on the fact that they refuse to show any stats vs.4 man SWF and any team that tryhards can destroy pretty much any killer on most maps except really good Nurse/Blight
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Actually, SWFs do not have a consistent 15% higher escape rate. Not even 4-men.
What the devs said is that in the highest mmr, there can be 15% difference between solos and SWF. But in the vast majority of players, the difference is only a couple of %.
Here's the Peanits screenshot =)
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Oh wow, another killer-main fairytale.
That's just something for the laugh, I think even many killer mains will find that amusing, quote: "60% kill rate is still a 2K average on any individual game, because you don't get partial sacrifices."
What??? This is just hilarious! Looks like someone lives in a parallel universe with different math laws.
Ok, just to debunk this "mathematical masterpiece" from a math "genius". 60% Killrate means that for every 10 games you get 6 games with 2k and 4 games with 3k. Look, no averages, I got rid of them on purpose, these the author of that post doesn't know what "average" numbers are and how to interpret them and thinks that all average statistical numbers just get reduced to their integer part in the real world LMAO
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Whats legit about giving up on first hook and dooming the rest of the team? Thats not playing the game normal and no reflection of the current state of the game.
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I know how averages work.
My point is this 60% kill rate is completely overblown, because as an average, it still falls within the realm of a 2K average. Even your 10 game example (which is very unrealistic, I WISH games were like this, snowballs are far more likely) as a 2K average, 6 2Ks and 4 3Ks, is more 2Ks than 3Ks.
60% is not some hugely inflated kill rate that's an indication of endemic killer-sided balance issues, it's still in that 2K average bracket, which is anywhere between 37.5% and 62.5%. To put it another way it's a 2.4K average. If you think a 60% kill rate is a huge problem for the game, you're overreacting.
I note you completely ignored the issue of different MMR brackets as well. After all, trying to summarise the state of the game via one figure averaging kill rates among all skill levels, is a pointless endeavour anyway.
We know that the top 5% experience a higher kill rate, despite the fact that this is where all the SWFs end up.
We also know that the lowest skill levels have a higher kill rate. Killer is far easier to play for new players than survivor is, because even playing as a basic M1 killer can result in 4Ks. Newbie survivors constantly complaining about how hard it is to climb up, players getting 'stuck' in low solo survivor MMR, etc.
Now, use your logic, I know you can do this, you understand how averages work.
If the top has a higher-than-average kill rate, and the bottom has a higher-than-average kill rate, what does that mean the middle has?
That's right, a lower-than-average kill rate.
Also, the fact that you've seen my argument, and immediately accused me of being a killer main, is a flagrant display of your bias. I'm not a killer main. I wish I was, I'm just not that good of a killer. I get far more success as a survivor and thus that's what I play.
I understand how this game works form both sides, and both sides deserve their fair chance to win. There are still issues, and solo survivor is still at a disadvantage. But flaunting around this 60% kill rate is not a compelling argument, not if you understand statistics, and not if you understand the nuances of this game.
For example, so many killer games, especially higher up in MMR, that may result in multiple kills, are not respective of the difficulty that killer had. I've seen streamers, and personally experienced in may games, cases where the killer was not having a great time, seriously struggling against looping, hook denial, etc. and the gates get powered with 4 survivors still in the game. This is a game the killer has by all rights, lost, and should be a 0K or 1K tops. And yet survivors make dumb altruistic plays, and the killer manages to secure 2, maybe even 3 kills. These cases are just as prevalent as the flip side of the coin, where killers camp and tunnel and get an unfair 3K or 4K. There is no chance this isn't contributing to kill rates.
Would it be fair if this was the average state of the game, with an average kill rate? Killers sweating their assess of, effectively getting wrecked, but still averaging a 50% kill rate due to survivor mess ups in the last 30 seconds of each game? Because that's what the game was like before patch 6.1 and the buffs that gave us this new 60% kill rate, and that's why killers were leaving in droves and survivor queues took 15 minutes.
Post edited by Seraphor on5 -
True. If you neglect the fact that every second match against a good nurse there is always a DC resulting in a 4 k most of the time.
Taking this into account will boost top mmr kill rate of Nurse to values of 80% or even more.
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But you don't take games with a DC into account, because they had a DC. The game is null and void, because the survivors don't stand a chance. The 4K is a certainty, so it can't reflect real kill rates.
"But it would have been a 4K anyway" is conjecture. I've escaped against Nurses when survivors haven't DCed. I'd like to take a guess at how often, but unfortunately too many Nurse games have a DC to tell. Survivors just refuse to learn how to counter her.
Moral of the story is, if you want real kill rates, STOP DCING.
As a 'solo survivor main', my biggest opponent is other survivors, I swear.
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Of course you can. DCs are part of the realitiiy. Neglecting like 20-30% of the matches makes all your statistics biased.
There is no counter against a good nurse except maybe Lery's, Mothers Dwelling, skilled Dead Hard and comp play style SWF with perfectly separating on different gens. Since you won't see that in average matches much, people will continue DC.
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Actually they have on and off mentioned swf escape rates go up to about +15% max at 4-man and had an earlier chart that showed about a +3-5% escape rate per player beyond the first in a swf. So it’s a good bet it’s something like +3% for 2-person, +7% for 3 person and +12% for 4 person swfs (give or take). Also they released stats a while back on percentages of games with various swf number and I think it was around 50% solo, 25% 2-person swf, 15% 3-person swf and 10% 4-person swf. Combing those together you can estimate from those weights and the 60% overall average the distribution is around
- Solo 63% death rate (50% of players)
- 2-person swf 60% death rate (25% of players)
- 3-person swf 56% death rate (15% of players)
- 4-person swf 51% death rate (10% of players)
That’s a rough estimate but should give an idea of the distribution.
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But including matches with DCs makes your statistics biased. You're including games with a foregone conclusion right from the start.
I've had countless games with an early DC that would have been more than salvageable. Games where the remaining 3 survivors have manged to repair about 4.5 gens, more than enough for a 4th survivor to have secured multiple escapes.
If you want your death to be counted, don't DC. Just as you're not supposed to anyway.
If the game is truly hopeless, then you'll die faster than your DC penalty anyway.
YOU are biasing the statistics by DCing. Stop It.
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Peanits quote posted above states that the number of SWFs with a +15% escape rate are the extreme minority. Meaning that a minority of that 10% have such an extremely different escape rate compared to the average. So the spread is likely far less exaggerated than this.
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Right, that’s why if you notice the spread above is only 12%, not 15%.
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Of course there are even some winnable matches if someone DCs or disappears from the very start of match like this cheater.
But the vast majority is just a gifted 4 k for the killer.
It's part of the game. It's part of the reality. It's part of player experience. Thousands of people face it every day.
Not taking this into account is just not serious work with statistics if your goal is to depict the real state of the game.
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What does it matter? According to stats sadako is the best killer in the game
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Wesker...with 65% killrate at high mmr.
Sadako has 61% along with nurse.
What you mean is low mmr, where sadako is highest
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Not sure why you're A: being so aggro and B: also confidently wrong in this thread. It's a global kill rate chart, not an individual game average chart. The chart is saying "over the course of X games over this time period against this killer, 60% of survivors died". That's all the information you can gather. Trying to extrapolate a game to game result from overall kill rate doesn't work if you don't know how many games were played
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My friend what are you doing? You know this is a killer board, they could have like 80% kill rate and still the board would be full of complaints about a swf that fought, one time, last month. haha
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They never released the stats for low MMR. They released stats for the top 5%, and the global stats for all MMR levels.
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If overall kill rate is 61% including SWF, then solo survivor escape rate would be considerably low.
For me, solo escape rate feels like lower than 20%.
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what about the games where the killer is trying to avoid raising their MMR and gifts free escapes? that's a 0K that artificially lowers the kill rate and is indistinguishable from a genuine 0K in how it processed into those stats.
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That 52% is toned down by
1)new players
2)Mostly, bhvr not including DCs in the overall stats. Most games i've played against nurses i've had at least one DC, it is guaranteed as lots of people gets frustrated against her. This means there are must be thousands upon thousands of nurses 3K's that are not being shown in these stats, as they are only shown games where the four survs stayed playing to the end.
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Yeah solo survivor escape rate probably around 25% once you factor in D/C games always being a loss.
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But would they have had that 3K if nobody DCd?
If you're stating that the non-DC games show she has a low kill rate, that infers that she has a low kill rate unless someone DCs.
Is Nurse so bad that she can't win unless someone DCs and makes it an easy 3K? Is that what you're saying?
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No, i say the 52% is filtering a lot of games where the nurse actually got 3Ks through DCs, which means you are not seeing a lot of games in the middle of the graph where nurse constantly wins.
If you take a game where the nurse player is so new that he/she cant blink properly without crashing through walls, people wont DC in those games, and that's a 0k going to the overall stats.
If you take a game where the nurse is against a comp 4-man SWF, the comp would probably stand a chance to win against her so they wont DC even if they end up all dead, and that can be 0k-1k going to the overall stats.
So if you take all situation where nurses get low kills 0k-1k in the stats, but leave out all the 3k coming from games with DCs, i will say is pretty normal that she has the lowest killrate.
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Maybe BHVR-senpai will notice you if you memorize enough of their corporate propaganda
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Most survivors dc at death hook though to deny kill from killer and those are exluded from stats. Survivors I play agains't almost never hook suicide. I wish they would do it more to give me easier games.
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I'll never understand why survivors do that.
- You're cheating yourself out of BP.
- You're saving that killer an MMR increase, keeping them low and away from survivors that could actually give them a run for their money.
- You've artificially lowering that killers kill rates.
- You're waiting longer for the DC penalty to wear off than it would take to just die and leave normally.
- You're showing everyone what a petulant little child you are.
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you are such a lelplayer like you really come out with all the most basic bullshit, every time.
including DC's means games with a foregone conclusion
countless games with an early DC that was more than salvageable
if game is hopeless, you die faster than the penalty
all of this ignores varying psychological states of survivors. DC games are not a foregone conclusion, i have escaped from them enough times to know that it's probably more likely i will escape a 3v1 than a 4v1 where one of my teammates appears to be suicidally depressed but still trying half-heartedly anyway - because they are a liability and they will make more mistakes and will largely play like trash, while their continuing presence will affect how the rest of the team plays. feeling hopeless is a form of psychological distress, nobody should be forced to remain in that situation, maybe we should give survivors a /wrists emote so they can bleed themselves out of the game.
whether the situation seems hopeless depends on that survivor's individual perspective, and particularly for newer or less-skilled survivors, that feeling is going to kick in faster. for that player, it might not be salvageable, and they would almost certainly not escape, even if the rest of the team manage it. in their best case scenario, that survivor is a simple deadweight to try to drag through the trial.
games where the killer fully dominates can end up in farm games where the survivors hold no pressure and the killer can mess around repeatedly downing survivors and letting them wiggle out. i had a friend stuck in a game like that for 40 minutes with a blight, i was on discord with him while he was stuck in that match and he told me it started with slugging at 5-gen.
so do you think survivors have any kind of objective means to determine absolutely whether the game is hopeless or not, particularly in solo queue, where you have a very limited idea of the quality of your teammates, beyond their own experience and comparison with the sense of hopelessness they are feeling at any given moment preceding a DC?
game psychology is really important; understand this - if game is #########, no point in playing. so i haven't played a trial in 2 weeks, big cba for game where balance rests on a needle point and you don't even know how much weighting each side is putting on their side of the scales, letalone if your own team is pitching feathers for counterbalance.
removing DC games is ignoring part of the reality, when the reality is that playing solo survivor is fairly /wrists, particularly if you get an overpowered killer.
so much lelplayer dyslogic
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lel yeah your post is so wrong, I'm just gonna discredit you by calling you names, and not take anything else you say seriously.
Sounds like you're just trying to justify the fact that you're a toxic DCer. Stop DCing.
You want to act like a child, then you get the childish reply. lel
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Yeah no I don't take kill/escape stats as seriously anymore since survivors can just decide to leave the trial early by purposefully being sacrificed (and to a small extend killers letting survivors go).
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Nah, disconnects where terrible during the time the penalty was shut down. There were even streamers that had dc streak counters for people disconnecting in a row.
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