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I... Don't understand the speed system for killer
Ok, With the PTB, we can test the Knight, and, when you see it's speed... 4.6m/s?
So? How it's work? Killer like Wesker, Legion, Blight, it's normal, it's some little or medium killer who have her power bound to speed, and even with that, trapper, twins, doctor, Pyramid head with is ######### giant sword and the montain who been called Nemesis, go at 4.6m/s
I understand why Nurse got the lowest speed (even lowest than survivor) because, she become just a goddess with 4.4 or 4.6m/s with is power at full potential
Probably, some people are gonna say "Yes, it's because the killer who need some aiming (nurse, deathslinger, trikster) can kill you with distance, so it's normal"
Okay then, so, why Spirit, and the Hag got 4.4m/s and plague, pinhead, clown, got 4.6m/s?
If, it's not the size who determine her speed, and even her gameplay style, why we got some with 4.4 and other with 4.6? Make everyone (except nurse) at 4.6? No?
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If their power speeds them up either by teleporting, phasing, or throwing a basic attack across the map they have to be slower, or else they will kill everyone every match.
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By that logic Dredge should be slower, but he has normal killer speed. There are other killers that teleport or have a dashing power that also have normal killer speed such as mr Whisker, Sadako, mr. Firefly, Demopuppy, etc.
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For the Nurse, I understand, yes, but even with that, look, you got some killer who can throw, and some of them got 4.4, and the other 4.6
And the hag can teleport without a limitation range with some add-on, power who can be destroy by some flashlight
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4.6 m/s Hag is literally my dream. When survivors know how to counter you, you become literally worse than m1.
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Haggers is my baby and in a sad situation with the state of the game. Her power has so many counters (multiple ways to avoid or destroy her traps, ways to avoid getting hit when you step on a trap, etc) more than any other killer and yet she is slower.
Hag is a killer that would benefit from being a bit faster without being overpowered
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The difference between Sadako Dredge, and then Nurse Spirit and Hag, is they have limitations on where they can teleport (lockers and televisions)
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The only problem with hag, personnaly, it's just some add-on who are freaking powerfull, but without that, yes, you got in your team some people with a flashlight, or somebody who can loop who decide to run on all your traps for destroying them... At this point, yes, Hag got some problem
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It is entirely due to their power.
Let's compare Trapper and Hag. Both setup traps, but both traps work entirely different. The trapper traps the survivor in place and has to move to them. Hence the standard 4.6 movement speed. Hag on the other hand, instantly teleports to the traps she has triggered, allowing essentially free hits on the survivors. If the Hag is good, and has a web of traps setup, the survivor has little chance of escaping her. This is why she moves slower on a general basis. If she could also move at a normal killer speed, as well as having her traps, she would be quite oppressive.
Spirit should be self-explanatory. She can move faster than nearly any other killer in the game, and do so while invisible. Add M-D ring into the equation, and she becomes a monster in the right hands. Killers with ranged attacks like Huntress, Deathslinger, and Trickster, attack and down from range. They don't need to catch up to the survivor to M1 them, therefore they do not need normal movement speed. It would just make them that much more oppressive.
As far as Blight, Legion, and Wesker, they have nuances to their powers. Blight has to bump into objects, often multiple times, just to land a hit with a Rush token. Legion cannot down with their power, and have to do so with an M1 attack. When they end their power, they are also fatigued, which slows them down. Wesker is forced to use his power in a straight line, and cannot land it around tight/round loops. He has to catch you in the open, otherwise he is forced to M1 you. All of these powers have downsides that warrant these killers having a 115%, aka normal, movement speed for killer.
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Dont put Haggers in the same spot as Nurse or Spirit. She has a limitation as to where she can teleport to. Yes there are add-ons but for the way traps need to be placed, those add-ons are useless, unneeded
Additionally, hag needs a lot of prep time, time to put traps, time to retrap. She doesn't have the benefit of going around the map to protect gens. Her teleportation doesn't allow her to go just anywhere, she needs to have been at the location and have placed a trap, so its very different. She would also need mint rag, which is a red addon. Otherwise she would only be teleporting when a trap is triggered
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4.6 is the normal killer speed. Anything lower is due to the power making up for it.
Nurse and Hag teleport.
Huntress, Trickster, and Deathslinger have range attacks.
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Movement speeds don't rely on a specific criteria to be assigned, it's decided on a killer-by-killer basis.
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This is basically the answer in the grand scheme of things.
Whether or not we agree with the decision, BHVR felt whilst they were playtesting that the drawback the killer needed for their power was to move at 4.4m/s whereas on other killers they may have felt that their power had enough drawbacks in its basekit to not necessitate a speed slowdown.
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For hag, you can trigger traps in a way to avoid hits or even avoid their trigger all together. You can also use mind games to avoid getting hit. You can also just run outside her web and she is done for. She can't chase you outside her web, she is too slow for that.
Because of her hard mobility outside a chase, she cant really go outside her web, she is not able to go around the map and putting pressure on gens unlike other killers with teleportation like Dredge or Nurse
The whole Dredge thing is illogical to me the most because his power doesn't really have much downside, there isnt that much survivors can do to oppress hit power like hag. He has normal speed but can teleport all over the map via lockers, he can teleport during chases and has an additional ability - the nightfall.
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Every killer has addons that are powerful, but you cant make a killer slower because of addons that they have. Talking basekit, her being slower is a hinder.
At this stage of the game, hag wins a lot because people dont know how to counter her properly. As a hag main, I can make hags chase me until they give up, while I see other survivors make a lot of mistakes.
If a survivor knows how to face her, she is not powerful at all. Even bad hags win the game just because survivors make bad decisions, not because of her power being overpowered
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I agree. At this point, I'm pretty sure if you buffed her speed a bit, for a short time her killrate would go up, but since more people would play her (presumably), more people would know how to counter her (and god does she have a billion counters), and it would balance over time.
Though to be fair, at this point I'd trade mint rag for basekit speed. I don't use the addon anyway. Give her 4.6, and make mint rag nerf her to 4.4. That would buff every other situation than her being op...
I love her to bits, but some days it's hard
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"Let just people think that Hag is bad, so maybe she will get some buffs aside from being insanely strong already."Completely agree! Hag needs 4.6ms! She's got a HUUUUGEEE problems!
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I want 3 things for hag - bug fix, normal speed and flashies not removing her traps or at least like it was before, where it would drain charges like crazy. Back in the day a yellow flash would destroy no more than 3 traps and today- over 15 since it only takes 1 click and poof no trap. Flashlights are more damaging to her power than her slow movement speed especially given how much time you need to spend retrapping and knowing that there are other counters to her power
A faster movement speed will help her not only in chases, but in her trapping, meaning that she doesn't need to spend 2-3 gens worth setting up her web and can actually move around more putting pressure on gens
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So all a survivor would have to do is avoid lockers and Dredge could never touch them?
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If you think hag is overpowered, youre one of those survivors that don't know how to face her )
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He has amazing map mobility and can teleport during a chase. He can mind game as well. I'm not saying he should be slower, but if he has normal speed, why can't other killer benefit from that as well? I'm talking about slower killers that would not become overpowered by increasing their speed to normal
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Hag is really-really weak, I really struggle in my matches because of flashies and survivors completely counterring my traps! I want to main her, but I don't know what to do, since she's slow!
Let's make a suggestion to the Developers to increase her basic speed up to 4.6ms?=3
I really think it would solve my problems of getting a 4k much quicker than I'm doing already. xD
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Blight being 4.6 was one of the biggest mistakes devs ever made anyway
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The easy way, take rusty shackles and disfigured ear
With iron grasp, agitation, monstruous shine
and go hook your first survivor in the basement, make two or three traps in there, like, where one can activate and the survivor can't see them with his flashlight, and jackpot
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Ok, I'll stop joking for a sec.=)
Guys just read closely please.=)
Hag is one of the most oppressive killers in Dbd if the player knows what she can do, and have a huge experience of how her ability works and maps. If you ever faced a hag main (real hag main), you'd understand that this killer don't need any buffs, she needs nerfs. (I'm gonna regret saying this...) Before she just snowball all 4 survivors in the matter of 1-2 minutes or even less, without using any basements or shackles.=) I really don't like to brag, but I know what she can do when a player plays her correctly.
Just believe me... If she gets speed buffs... Hag mains will get a really quick 4k matches and might end-up in a streak of 500 times.=)
But if you still want to buff her, go on, I'm not even going to argue.=3 Bring buffs to my beloved main!
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It's not the point of my thread here... It's just why some killer got a 4.6m/s and the other a 4.4, even, when some of them got a similar power
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But dredge actually moves slower when using his power. And the teleport doesn't actually land him a hit, unless you are in side the locker he picks.
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Hag thrives on survivor mistakes. If survivors know what they're doing, the best hag main can't do anything.
There isnt a true hag main that will say that she doesn't need any buffs. Her needed buffs are not anything major or anything big. She has received no changes since 2018 and the game is different now. Hag mains on high MMR will tell you that they lose matches against survivors who know how to counter her power, and her power has a lot of counters, too many counters.
If you feel like hag is too powerful, you don't know how to counter her effectively.
I main survivor and the only killer I play is Hag. As a survivor, I mainly face hags that don't know what they're doing and 99% of the time, these hags get 3-4k, but not because she is too powerful, but because survivors make mistakes the whole game.
Just yesterday, I faced a hag as a solo player with survivors of higher prestige than me, 21 and 25, SWF with purple flashlights. And what happened, they died vs a hag that puts all her traps at the hook, a hag that never once kicked a gen. One could have survived if she had taken a hit while having endurance, but no, slow vaulting a window apparently seemed to be more appealing.
While playing hag, I more often than not face survivors that dont know what they're doing, or they're under the impression that hag is soooo weak and get cocky, basically throwing themselves at me and then they cry in end game chat.
If you need tips on how to counter hag, you know where i am
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I used to understand the movement system until they made Blight 115 when he has a better power than every single 110 killer in the game.
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You can hold the teleport and return. You can do this at any loop, its especially good at high walled loops. He puts pressure on survivors when doing this and they panic. More times than not, teleporting like this lends a hit
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Thank you, I'll keep that in mind.=)
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While I do agree with most of what you said, I don't think we should throw out phrases like "no true [Killer] main will tell you that..."
There are plenty of people on this game that play in different ways, with different standards, and with different opinions. If Grigerbest's way of playing is both enjoyable to them and apparently very efficient, then good for them ! =D They're entitled to their own opinion without anyone to doubt whether they're a genuine Hag main or not...
That being said, hope you have great next games <3
(Also give me your luck ! I've only seen a handful of Hags since I started playing, I wish I got one yesterday as well ! xD)
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It would be simpler if we just made all of them 115%, but that's never gonna happen.
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Ok, to the point of your thread...
Developers made some killers slower to encourage them to use their power more and rely on it. I agree I don't get with Blight being 4.6, but still the main reason for killers like Hag, Nurse, Huntress (etc) being slower, is that they will be overly oppressive and require less skill to use efficient. With these killers you have to be good with their powers, not M1.
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I said this because I know hag mains and hag mains that know hag mains and its the same opinion as this. Grigerbest's opinion from what I gathered is that of a survivor that doesn't play hag. And as someone that mainly plays survivor but also mains Hag, when I face hag, I see what my teammates are doing and its all the wrong things for the most part.
Especially when it comes to facing a hag that is not playing her right, I usually think, oh this will be easy and then I see my teammates running towards hooks and allowing the hag hook swaps.
A lot of this comes from the fact that players rarely see hag but others have heard their favorite content creators deem her as a very weak killer and so they get a confidence that lands them a loss in the game. While usually they would gen rush, they see a weak hag and think they can loop her and abandon the objective completely.
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In that case I understand the misunderstanding a bit better ! I do believe they are a Hag main, not from their opinions expressed here but from past interactions. So they're not speaking about it from a survivor perspective, quite the opposite.
For what it's worth, I do play Hag regularly, and I've just about hit the stage where you're half the time against more coordinated teams (not necessarily SWFs, I don't believe, but people who know well how to counter her), and it does suck a bit. I know there are lots of strats very high skill Hag mains know that can still make her very powerful even against such survivors, but that's very niche knowledge that I have not yet incorporated to my gameplay.
I personally wouldn't mind a few buffs, as I have already expressed on this thread haha =)
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Her ability makes it so that she has to rely on traps for downs. Making her 115 gets rid of that and makes her another anti-loop slave.
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Right, but it's different than the others. He actively moves slower, and then can activate it. It's not nearly as powerful as spirit for example.
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The only killer i think who's speed should be changed atm is pyramid head, other than that i believe they have done good job with deciding who should be 110% and 115%
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Maybe, but, a Killer with speed power related, I think it's pretty normal that he have this speed basekit
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Maybe, but, a Killer with speed power related, I think it's pretty normal that he have this speed basekit
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Dredge teleport is limited by lockers just as Sadako teleport is limited by TV's, Demo teleport is limited by portals... there is a logic to it
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as for clown and I supposed pinhead, it'd be counter intuitive if their power is to make them slow/lose distance... when you are slower than average yourself.
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